[Anigel]

I live in Florida where Carlie Brusia was kidnapped and then later found dead. For those of you who don't know the story, she was only 11 years old.

My placement request is for 5-12 years of age, so this has really struck a chord in me. My goal as the parent of an older child would be to protect them, to keep them safe from harm, allow them to grow up to into the adults I know they can be, all while enjoying the childhood they have left. I think we all strive to create and maintain the proper environment for our kids. No matter what their past was abuse, neglect, or something else.

I think that type of past makes it all the more intimidating. How do you help your child cope with their past so they can move on, the same time they are settling into a new home, maybe a new school, new rules (new everything)? Then add to that keeping them safe so no one else can hurt them? On the radio this morning there was a child psychologist who was expounding "talk to your children" inorder to keep them safe, tell them not to talk to strangers, etc."

So as a parent of a newly adopted older child, with so many important things to talk to them about, do you let the worry of strangers slide a little, until they are settled in? Do I need to be with them every minute, waiting for them, while hoping that someone else, at their foster home maybe told them not to talk to strangers, not to go anywhere not even into a car with said strangers? One of the ploys these people use to abduct children is to tell the child their pet is missing. Will the child help them look? That's downright scary. I have to tell them not to help someone look for a lost pet?

I wouldn't adopt if I didn't think I could keep my children safe. I'm just wondering how can I talk frankly with abused children about the future potential of pain, when I'm working so hard to help them past what's already happened? I certainly wouldn't want my new little one lying awake at night worried about be taken away by yet unknown. Or prolonging the healing process.

Where is the balance?

[HappyMomAnna]

I understand your question completely! We had a little girl placed at the age of five and about six months later signed her up for 'Safety Town" a two-week progam to help teach many areas of Safety including Stranger Danger--I was horrified one day when our little gril came home and started talking about what she was learning--and she pointed out to me that "When I met you -- you were a stranger to me!"

YIKES!!!

It is difficult to talk about and explaine to a child who has moved around and wakes up on any given day to find a new parent in their lives--how could it not be?

We have worked extra hard to talk--talk and more talk and can only pray we get to her head deep enough that she understands from NOW ON we are the only ones who are in charge of you.

There were a few other signs of the problems such as for the longest time our daughter believed the teacher was our boss--or the caseworker could tell us she didn't have to clean up her room!

I don't know if there is anything we can do other then keep demonstrating in every way possible that we are forever and we are the bosses and NO ONE else is in charge--and during the time before the adoption is final there was a part of me that felt it could be wrong to say things like "No one can ever make you move again" After the adoptin ceremony I have said this many times and pointed out that the caseworker doesn't even come here anymore....and that most moms and dads do take good care of their children so there is no reason to think someone is going to come get you....we have even disscussed the steps and efforts we had to take in order to adopt.

This is a hard subject and one that will take a long time to overcome--I think that as with most of the process of the child attaching to us this will come--take time and needs to be talked about......

[Lorraine123]

In my daughter's mind, no one is a stranger. When she first came to us she walked up to a car in a parking lot with the window down and leaned in and told the man inside Hi and that she thought he was nice.

Since she has absolutely NO fear of strangers we have had to be extreme. She can't talk to anyone without asking us first. That is a rule. And you know what - little by little, she is getting it. I see her stop and think and decide whether some one is a stranger.

Its a really hard concept to teach. For example, my brother lives a few states away and we only see each other a few times a year. Well, I tell my daughter, he isn't a stranger, hes family. But on the other hand, there is a man at church who we are good friends with and see several times a week, but we tell her that he isn't family and therefore she can't sit in his lap. Now, thats rather confusing from her perspective.

I try to think about how my biological children learned these concepts. I really don't remember teaching it. It seemed that they just knew.

I guess I'm getting off topic here, but in my case stranger awareness has been something we have had to focus on since day one. We often remind her that her parents will keep her safe. The word "safe" is used a lot in our house. Even from the beginning.

[Howdy]

I wonder how effective it is to teach the kids, I remember years ago seeing on TV some sort of hidden-camera thing where the parents would be in another room watching and their kid would be outside the room in the store and a fake bad guy would approach the kid and try to get them to go out of the store with them. And it would work even if the parents had talked to the kids about stranger safety.
I'm not sure even adults are all that safe, I mean, if some approached and used your first name and said your mom was in a bad accident and was dying and wanted to see you and this person had been sent to take you to the hospital quickly, I mean, even an adult might be so shocked and concerned about their mom they might not question who the stranger was.
I rented a video called 'Safe Kids, Strong Kids' from the library and showed it to my last foster daughter. It talked about adults tricking kids and it talked about sexual abuse and not keeping it secret. I thought it was a really good video. My foster daughter did not seem affected adversely watching it, and she said she already knew all that. But a few months later when her teacher mentioned some unusual behavior and I asked my fd if she thought she might be pregnant (she was only 7 yrs old), she said "I can't tell". So I can't say the video did any good.

[HappyMomAnna]

Lorraine123--how true the biggest word is 'SAFE' and we too have had issues with extended family memebers and our daughter learning about extended family--She never had an Uncle or Grandparent before!

One important thing i thin is easy to overlook and possible even easy to miss with an older child is that time just after placement. All the best advice is to keep the children home for a few weeks and LIMIT outsiders visiting! Introduce each new person slow and if possible one at a time. If you try to allow you child some time to feel 'SAFE' in their new home and then have the extended family come to the 'SAFE' home fore an hour--one at a time then the child can learn 'these are SAFE people.' If we take the child out of our home and to other peoples homes we lose the 'SAFE' feeling we have tried to build in our home and this can confuse them. Family does not always understand we had problems with Grandma wanting to do an overnight only three weeks after our daughter came home....but, we let grandma know she was welcome to attend all the classes we had taken if she wanted to understand the 'why's'

I DID have some problems in this area with my Bio daughter. I will never forget the day she told me 'I would go bye-bye with a stranger if he gave me a big candy bar!" She has always been outgoing and flirts with the world. We gave her a lot of opportunities with Safety programs and talked with our police department about personal visits and even had a ride along! When she was about 8 we got her into Taek Won Do and now she has a black-belt! I fear less with her knowing she has skills to defend herself and can recognize threatening--violent behaviors.....we actually plan to have both of our little ones take self defense classes eventually.

[HappyMomAnna]

DenverLiz--I saw that news show too--SCARY!!!

It remeinds of when I was a little girl--My fathers step father had been accused of S-abuse one of his step daughters so my mother told me--NEVER go anywhere with anyone EVEN GRANDPA--unless I tell you about it first! Well, she talked with me about that maybe three times and when I was in the second grade her dad (my other grandpa) showed up to drive me home in his new car---I told him no, mom told me not even with Grandpa unless she tells me in the morning. He drove behind me all the way home and asked my mom what the heck that was about!

[Lorraine123]

Anna -

That is a great story! I love it.

It reminds us of how literal kids are. Thanks for sharing it.

[Anigel]

So it would be good for me to set up a safe system. Meaning before finalization saying things like you are safe here, and that person is safe. That person is not safe.

Anna- you mentioned the "tender time" right after placement.

How does the school deal with the child not being there? Is it considered okay to keep them home? Someone in another thread mentioned keeping them home and then when they are ready a week of half days. I think I might worry about a child that was already behind, falling further behind. Is that something I would need to put out of my mind?

Summertime seems to be the best time to adopt, but you know as well as I do, there is no control over when the child comes.
I have heard about families rushing in, because the child was so curious to learn and experience new things, and then regreted it.

[dadfor2]

great topic anigel

im reading and learning. for some reason, my kids are scared of strangers.

my little one runs to me when someone pulls in our driveway that he doesnt know and my older one says "i dont want to go, i dont know them, their strangers" hes actually petrified of people he doesnt know.

it is a great topic. One thing i have noticed is that some kids in school have their childs names on their backpacks, clothes, or where ever anyone can see them. This is more for a tip.

dont let your childs name be on anything thats visable. THese preditors see the childs name and will say "hi 'mary', your mommy told me to pick you up" 'Mary' might believe him/her, because he/she knew the childs name......

just something to think about. what a great question......


dadfor2

[HappyMomAnna]

My standard answers to family and schools or anyone else re: the way I deal with my daughter is to recomend that they take all the classes and read all the books I have before they critisize the methods we have decided to use.

I also started right off the bat writing a 'newletter' sort of thing that I could give to the family and anyone else as often as I needed to. It has actually helped greatly for us especially with some of the behaviors our little girl has. She tantrums easily and under the circumstance family has a hard time watching us deal with it the 'wrong' way--by giving everyone a little info and heads up they may still have a problem but they are not so surprised.

The schools are a joy to deal with---NOT! But, unlike years ago when I was a young mother---this time around I can stand my ground better and not fall into the trap of always believeing I have to do things their way. I will get comments like: Lots of children blah blah blah--and I simply say she is not lots of children and that is not how we are dealing with things in our home.....would you like to have a copy of this book or that book?

I think it is more then wise to give these children as long as they need to adjust. People who get married usually get to go off on a honeymoon and enjoy a few weeks of uninturputed time together before they go back to their lives---why would a child need anything less? Especially when they havn't had al that dating time!

Some families choose to homeschool for a period of time and in many states this is well accepted. My attitude is that we want entry into school to be successful so we should take whatever time we need to take.

A SAFETY plan is important and time to know who you are is vital.

[HappyMomAnna]

Oh Yeah---there is a program used a lot with Down Syndrom children because they are so typically friendly and unable to decide which people are people who are safe... These kids will often hug anyone and love everyone.

They learn the GREEN--YELLLOW--RED system for people. Family is Green and people at the Church are yellow and people at the shopping mall are red. You can hug green--shake hands with yellow and say hi to red....We used some of this with our daughter just because I know three families with Downs and have seen it happen so much. It really helps these kids because in public you can say--is that person a green? and you are not yelling stay away from them they are strangers (face it most strangers are not bad!)

[dadfor2]

happymomanna

i like the green-yellow-red system. never heard that before...kinda cool. and your wriite, most strangers are not bad....

that would help in not having the kids live in total fear also.

"oh the world we live in...."

dadfor2