[lucyjoy]

I keep thinking if I yell it from the roof tops loud enough it will somehow make a difference. I've get the message clearly, it won't. Noone wants swimming lessons, just a life raft after they start drowning.

Last week I got a call from a desperate dad wanting me to help his rescue his son from an alternative school. He felt his son wasn't like those other kids and would learn bad habits. His son had been suspended after repeated class diruptions, he ran from the school, assaulted the sherriff, tried to take the sherriffs gun, stayed with me while suspended, assaulted me, attempted to run away, was arrested, but I agreed to drop charges on the condition he had eval done. Kid spent 8 days in the hospital returned to school and assaulted a teacher and was suspended pending a hearing on placement in the alternative school. I investigated the program which is free and a good success rate. Not what dad wanted to here. He wanted me to get his kid out. He was desperate to prove it wasn't the kids fault, just the divorce...

In the past week I've been called about a 5 year old disrupting because her tantrums didn't stop when left alone in a room, another 5 year old adopted out of age order who was constantly taunting the mom who is exhausted and fears for her what her younger children are learning from this, a 16 year old whose career mom decided she didn't want to keep him, an 8 year old who drinks her own urine and wants to kill her brother, and a 7 year old also out of order that clearly told his therapist his plans to kill his family.

When I talk to these parents it's easy to see all the wasted time using normal parenting and regular therapy and wonder if these kids and families could have been saved if they parents had been better prepared.(I also clearly remember all the time I wasted before I learned how to parent to my child's needs)

But the answer is no because the louder and stronger you push to try to educate and prepare people, the more they fight back because they don't want it to be true.

MY teens have talked to foster parent panels. I have a son with 18 moves and a disrupted adoption and a parent asked him why this home was different. His answer -This mom never let me get away with anything. The man asked-You liked that? His answer-not at the time, but it let me know I could trust her, she meant what she said, and I was safe. When It's tough to follow through with what I know is right, I remember that.

I feel great passion for people, especially children that haven't been given a chance. I am very open and very blunt about what I feel. And I do get upset when drowning people are trying to give swimming lessons while they're drowning.

There is more than one way to do things and each child dose need something different. But, there are also ways I think that are wrong for all children and some that are always wrong for traumatized children.

I will continue to study success stories and learn how those successes were made. I will continue to help drowning families learn to swim. I will continue to love my children and any more that come with all the passion I have.

But I'm done helping people that don't really want help and done trying to educate people who just want to jump in.

[ajjhmf]

I hope this doesn't mean you're leaving the board. I've found the advice you give to be very helpful and had it not been for you and others, I probably would have 'drowned' months ago instead of 'learning to swim.' Parents who have been there are honestly the ones with the best advice. I read everything I could get my hands on about RAD before my sons were placed with me, but nothing prepared me for the reality of the peeing, stealing, lying, raging, and everything else that comes with it.

I agree it is very frustrating when people ask for advice and then don't like what they hear, so turn the other way. Especially when there are children being lost in the mix.

Many months ago, I posted about how my 9yo's sexual acting out. The advice you gave was hard to hear, but it also gave me hope. Hope that he could heal. We did keep trying. We tried for 4 more months, until cps told us to stop. We didn't want to. I still wanted to believe I could save him and keep his brother safe too. The disruption 2 weeks ago was hard, but had we not held on as long as we did, the truth about what my son was doing and what had been done to him would have never come out.

There is nothing in the world more difficult than parenting a hurt child. We all jump in head first and sink or swim. The only thing that keeps us going is other parents who can teach us to swim. Please don't give up on the swim lessons. There are plenty of us out there that still need them.

Blessings,
Jenny

Lucyjoy'

Keep posting. Your experiance is clearly huge and that alone should garner respect. Your direct, you have to be with the population you are dealing with. My kids don't have a minsculeamt of the problems yours do but I do learn because you usually dish out good ole common sense that do apply to ALL kids. Sometime I may get caught in the trap..."oh...that won't happen to me" and need a kick in the butt...don't ever relax with teens...and you make me aware of that.Thank you

Also, there may be some posters that don't agree, or it really may not apply to them...but there may be 10 lurking that are listening!

Donna

[Star_Gazer]

Lucyjoy, I find your posts very helpful and informative.

I always make it a point to read your posts. Even if I don’t have time to read the whole thread, there are certain members’ posts that I will be sure I read and yours is one that I look for.
Even If I’m not dealing with a particular problem at the time, I make sure I read your post, just in case I have to deal with it at some point. I have two teenage boys and I hope to adopt again soon and you never know what issues as a parent you may have to deal with and I have learned a lot from you.

You do make a difference. Please keep sharing your experiences.

[lucyjoy]

I never said any of those things about you nor did I tell anyone not to adopt. I was accussed of that and many other things and yes I should have completely ignored the pms and all the other things that person said to me, but I didn't. I have said that sometimes siblings should be split to heal the children. I deleted the posts because the other party asked me to-I noticed he was quick to delete all the really nasty things he said to me.

[DianeS]

Actually, lucyjoy, I'm taking your swimming lessons.

I don't believe you've ever talked directly to me about this topic, because I am not yet licenced and therefore do not have any children needing help in my home.

But I have been an avid reader of the Special Needs board ever since before it was combined here. I always intended to adopt from foster care, and knew just barely enough to know there "could be issues" so I'd better check what those issues could be.

In doing so my eyes have been really opened.

I now own every book you've ever recommended. Every type of therapy, every website you've commented on is in my library or "favorites" menu. I have printed almost every post.

Not just yours, of course. Other people say and recommend the same thing or similar things.

Don't think you're not making a difference just because the person you're intentionally talking to isn't listening or is choosing to try something else. In a public forum you never know who you will be reaching, or when. Some of the posts I learned from were 2 and 3 years old... I could see the beginning, middle, and end, and learn lessons from the whole thing instead of a slice.

You can't make people listen, and you shouldn't be disheartened when they don't. Disappointed, sure, you wouldn't be human if you weren't at least disappointed. But do think about all the people you may be reaching who you don't even know about. You may be changing people's perceptions of how to handle these situations before they're even in them.

I know you've changed mine.

[saj]

Lucy Joy,

I too suport you and the advice you give. I know it is my choice to swim or flounder.....or get out of the pool. Please keep posting. Lets just let this conflict be a way to improve things, not squelch good feedback. Remember your physics classes....nothing can move forward without friction.
Sincerely,
Saj

[Lorraine123]

LucyJoy -

I just wanted to chime in and let you know that I too value your advice. Even though I attended classes, read what seems like an entire library of books, etc., I wasn't fully prepared for my daughter. I have posted many a question and plan to continue. Its a shame for the wealth of knowledge here to disappear because some people disagree. Varying opinions make the world go round.

Lorraine

[Howdy]

LucyJoy, I think you have very valuable input, but you might be happier if you didn't expect reasonable responses from human adults. :-)

Think of how kid's react to information they don't want to hear, but sometimes the very next day they'll be quoting the same info to someone else. Adults aren't always much different from kids, they have to make their own mistakes too.

[lucyjoy]

Liz can you post that in my pm box everyday? I think all the disruption calls just burnt me out a bit and then other things just piled on was too much. I'll be hanging around, just not posting as much. I plan to tackle some legal issues regarding foster/adopt regulations that were brought to my attention yesterday by a friend. Maybe things will settle down here a little by then.

[Dianna]

Lucyjoy, How I have appreciated reading your posts! I imagine you hope that others will learn and change their parenting as a result of your information. How do you measure that expectation? You will never really know how many people you influence. Please don't be discouraged. Just know you are helping. You are offering an opportunity. That is a gift with no strings attached. Don't take it personally whether people respond the way you had hoped. There, I got to say it. Don't take it personally.

When you have invested your caring and passion to another, it is hard to let go of the outcome. But the outcome is not yours. You know this. Life is an offering of the best we can give. That is the end of it. The offering and the caring and the passion. God bless you Lucy, and Thank you. Dianna

[Jensboys]

I was coming to the boards to post a "where's Lucy" question when I saw this ...

Lucy - you have helped me invaluably, much of what you say I already know but SO good to have it reenforced when the rest of the world thinks you are nuts. So my boys thank you for the swimming lessons for their mama!

Some people just must live it to learn it and they are FOOLISH to not listen to your WISE words. Unfortunately, in the long run, kids pay.

Now, I REALLY need your advice, so if you dont mind checking out my recent post on this board regarding my 7 year old bully I would CERTAINLY APPRECIATE it

[MamaJem]

Lucyjoy triumphantly proclaimed:

I will continue to study success stories and learn how those successes were made. I will continue to help drowning families learn to swim. I will continue to love my children and any more that come with all the passion I have.

I am glad you plan to continue teaching us all! We are waiting for our family to grow very soon and I know I will be on the lookout for your wisdom!

I so understand your frustration. One of the aparents of our dear sweet fchildren was convinced that he knew exactly how to handle every problem the kids came with. (Toys, gifts, new clothes and rarely if ever saying no to their every whim) He figured that the NEW family should come with ALL NEW things and that they should never look back. There would be enough time when they got settled into their new home to start setting boundaries. The report I got back yesterday that most everything was going well except they were shocked that one of the children were showing defiant behaviors....hmmmm. Ya think the fparent may have known a little something?

Just be assured that there are some of us out here that are trying to make sure our pride is swallowed and that we can admit we don't know all the answers. We are willing to try something unusual to deal with our children who came to us due to unusual circumstances.

Glad to have this forum,