[hope4happiness]

Hi everyone. I am new here so I hope I am doing this right but I have looked everywhere for help except here. So, please give me some good advice.

My husband and I are foster parents. We have a 2 1/2 mo old little girl and a 4 year old little girl. We have had the 4 year old since last October. She is on the verge of being free for adoption (August 25th court date) and we have talked about keeping her. Recently, her behavior has gotten really bad. She will not listen to anything, she refuses to do simple things that we ask her to do. She laughs in our face and constantly tells us no! She is very hyper. She will not even sit down to eat. She stands beside the table and bounces around the entire time. She has night terrors that are getting worse. We have had some sexual situations with her where she has asked my husband to rub her private parts. That part has subsided. She is starting to build up a lot of anger inside and I don't know why. When she gets mad at us, she pulls her hair and/or throws things and/or beats herself in the head. She has jumped at me several times and threatened to hit me. I was taking a nap yesterday with my infant and my husband caught our 4 year old standing beside me with her hand drawn back to hit me. WHILE I WAS ASLEEP!!!

I just can't take it anymore. I have gotten to the point that I hate weekends because all we do is fuss and argue and I cry all the time. I love her but I want to get her help. She has an appointment with her doctor on August 8th but they have already told me that they think she is too young to go on any type of medication.

She has a history of bi-polar disorder in her family. Her grandmother, mother and aunt have all been diagnosed as bi-polar.

I just don't know where to turn. I want to give her every chance before I have to give her up because I love her. Can someone please shine some positive light in my direction?

[lucyjoy]

She young and has time to heal. Sorry, that's the nice part.
Your lucky it was her hand and not a knife. If it were me, I would run to the nearest attachment therapist. Check our www.radzebra.org, www.attach.org, www.nancythomasparenting.org

Your child needs help. I would put an alarm on her bedroom door to insure she wasn't sneaking around at night and doing things that could harm her or someone else.

Rock her at least 30 minutes a day. Nancy Thomas uses strong sitting which is a form of meditation/sitting to allow the child to learn to calm herself and be still. It is effective.

Have the child play with in your line of vision. If she's making bad choices have her stay right next to you instead of sending her to time out.

Another option is to allow someone else to adopt her. It is so trying to live with a child who contantly creates havoc in your home. I always tell parents that if thy can't live with the child if she never changed, not to take the child. Parenting a RAD child is a full time job and once you start, there is no stopping.

(Disclaimer: I know it could be something besides RAD, but I don't really believe it is. If I'm wrong, an attachment trained therapist would know that right off.)

[dadfor2]

hi hope,

well, dont have much to offer you, but it might be nice to know your not alone. we are a preadoptive home with two boys, siblings, 5 & 7.

since your talking about your younger one, ill focus on our 5 yr old. We got him when he was four. His birth family (mother side) have all mental health issues, his birth mother was also dx with bipolar.

when we had some concerns of our older child, with maybe he might be bipolar, because he hears things talking to him at night, and other issues, the doctor stated that he is too young to be dx with bipolar, that the onset of that is much later. that was a relief...but it aint over yet....lol

our 5 yr old does hit and tantrums alot. He seems to be getting better though. He says no to anything we ask him, it doesnt matter what it is, he just says no. Its his way to control us. We know he is dealing with alot of things in his little life. We bought him one of those punching bags for him to punch, you know the kind, the ones with the happy face on it and you blow it up and you hit it...lol.

I wonder if your 4 yr old is just so angry or having alot of feelings, and she is to young to express in words what she is feeling so instead she acts out. I know thats what our 5 yr old does.

the biggest question is, is your daughter seeing a therapist? if not, she needs to go, plus your family. Find a therapist that deals with adoption/foster kids and have experience with trauma. Your daughter has been through some trauma and all the love you give her, isnt enough.

she also may have RAD, because usually the child goes after the mom and not the father. I believe you mentioned she was sexaully abused, and that brings on a whole set of issues. Im not saying she has any of these things, but ive read so much that some of the symptoms could be that.

I know im not much help, but just wanted to let you know, your not alone, these kids are tough to handle, but we commited ourselves to them. they each go to therapy once a week, and then we go to therapy about how we are as a couple in handling these issues. We also attend an adoption support group once a month. And that has been great, it makes us feel so not alone.

anyway, good luck, its a very diffulcult job, i know i have thoughts in my mind sometimes if we made the right decision in wanting to adopt these special needs kids. The tantruming alone makes me crazy. BUt then comes the night, and its the end of the day, and to watch them sleep, its such a beautiful thing.

a good book to read is, oh, maybe someone can help me here, 'The hurt child', i can get you more info, im at work so i dont have the book handy. but it was excellent, helped me out alot on how to deal with the two boys and their anger stuff.

dadfor2

[aMarylandfamily]

It is very difficult to diagnose a child this age with actual bi-polar ... often a young child is labeled ADHD which symptoms are similar to or mask bi-polar. A good website to visit and read is www.bpkids.com and the links from there will help you learn more. Mood stabilizers often prescribed for bi-polar are also risky in children so young as the child cannot honestly evaluate whether or not they are providing any assistance/relief with the mood swings and negative behaviors which result from same. A good therapist is the key as well as the flexibility in your parenting to adjust to the needs of an ADHD and/or bi-polar child ... regular discipline does not work - rewards and incentives only prove beneficial to a certain extent and then the child (the younger the better) has to learn the choices he/she makes and consequences - good or bad - associated with those choices. Having a bi-polar child I can fully state the irritability, aggressiveness and sleep difficulties are signs of childhood onset bi-polar (when researching - read on both bi-polar and onset childhood bi-polar). Bi-polar can be lived with ... if you understand its constant changing effects on the child and the family and be willing to make adjustments for same ... with the realization that you may need additional services as the child grows/matures and not be afraid to ask/obtain those services ... having a child in a treatment facility is not easy but often necessary as many bi-polar folks can be at some point a danger to themselves and to others ... if you feel any uncertainty that this child will have a negative effect on you, your other children or your family you need to make sure you will see them through whatever treatment will be required now and in the future as rejection only worsens things.

Hope this helps ... think about what you are encountering and send thoughts and questions to this board ... several of us have bi-polar or RAD children and can offer lots of first hand experience for you to try and/or to avoid completely ... remembering this child is unique and his treatment - at home, in school and whereever he is will be unique ... knowledge is the best weapon for handling what is ahead!

[lucyjoy]

I actually did have a RAD kid who went after my husband instead of me. It is usually themom, but divide and conquer is the main thing.

I'm not a fan of punching bags(or punching anything)for anger. Lots of therapists reccomend it, but I do not want my kids learning that punching is a good way to relieve anger. My kids who were "pillow punchers" graduated to walls and people by the time they landed here(boy, can they drywall well now!).
I love exercise, especially running, for angry kids(& adults). It's a healthy stress reliever and it clears your head.

You can find a lot of support here, but it is o'kay to decide not to take this child. I know there can be a lot of pressure and You seem to love this child which makes it hard to look at everything.

[ziba]

Sorry to hear of your problem with such a young person. First and Foremost, Pray everyday for her. Prayer really does work. Good Luck. 2nd you can get on the net and try www,bipolar.com or www.bi-polar.com again Good Luck. My son is 32 and has had bipolor since about age 3or4 and has had problems ever since but with medication doing much better. He was acting just like your little girl, Like I said he still has some problems but not like it use to be. He is what is called bipolar manic high which is where it's real hard for him to slow down, you know like sit still things like that, etc... Good Luck, Linda

[LotAkids]

Okay, I'm going to be the devil's advocate...........and I will probably get totally slammed for saying this. BUT, don't give up on her. Don't "turn her back in" because she is difficult. I'm an adopted child, now 36 and the mother of an adopted son who came from an entire family of bi-polars, and my parents stuck by me and all of my "issues" and with time, love, medication, therapy, etc, etc, etc.........I'm okay and healthy today. I'm also grateful that they "kept" me despite my flaws. If you don't keep her, then the next family that "gets" her may or may not keep her. Move after move will damage this little girl probably beyond help.
I totally shiver when I think of the road that is ahead of us with our son and all of his possible problems that may have been genetically passed down to him. (He will be a year on Friday) But we were aware of these possibilities when we decided to adopt him and we made a commitment to him come good or bad. Your little girl is still so young and with lots of intervention and strong parenting, she'll do okay.
Be strong, for her.

[lucyjoy]

She hasn't been adopted yet. Many of the children in my home have had failed adoptions. The previous parents knew before adoption that this was not what they were prepared to do. They felt pressured to finalize the placements and hoped with time, things would change. To me, the disruption after the adoption(especially five years later), is so much worse for the child then saying no up front.

I believe adoption is a long term forever commitment and for it to be successful, all parties need to be certain they are able to stay emotionally healthy and able to meet whatever the child needs. If it's already a dred and a struggle to get through the weekend, there could end up being a lot of resentment.

Also, from the description, there is also an element of danger that needs to be addressed.

This could turn out to be a very successful placement, but it will be a lot of work and stress. It needs to be entered into with eyes wide open, not just hearts.

[po]

I know just where you are coming from. We have a 7 year old foster daughter that you have discribed perfectly. She was diagnosed bi polar and put on zyprexa. Gained 14 pounds in 3 months. That doctor moved and the next took her off of it and has tried strettera. She goes as if she is driven. Had night terrors, but the zyprexa stopped them. Now they are coming back. She bounces instead of walking. Was just in the hospital for trying to hurt herself. New medicine added, but I really dont see where it is slowing her down. She wants lots of love. Mom was an alcoholic and was drunk when she was born. If mom falls off the wagon again she will be terminated. She has been in care 16 months and we have had her for 9. She is very jealous and does not want my husband to hold the other kids we watch unless she is also on his lap. There has to be a doctor that will help, just keep looking. These kids are dealing with alot of issues. Last night she opened up to another foster daughter that we had who is now 24. She admitted that her mom was an alcoholic and the 7 year old really talked about her mom. We had very bad nightmare last night. po

[hope4happiness]

Thanks to everyone that has replied. All of you have opened my eyes to new and different possibilities. I have looked into all of the websites that you all have recommended and intend to research even more.

Let me tell you what happened this morning. My 2 1/2 mo old was still sleeping so I figured I would actually dress my 4 year old myself instead of her doing it so that we could have some one on one time together. Well, it turned into an argument like usual and she ended up finishing the job herself. After I finished dressing myself for work, I began to feed, change and dress the baby. The 4 year old came into the room, jumped up on the bed and said, "I want the baby to die." I looked at her and said "what?" She wouldn't repeat it, she just said, "nothing". So I said, "Did you just say that you wanted the baby to die?" After a few seconds, she finally admitted to it. She started to cry and say "Momma, I don't want the baby to die. I was just pickin." I don't know, but she is starting to scare me a little.

[lucyjoy]

Your baby is in danger. I sent you a pm.

[Happy]

I agree with Lucyjoy. This is more than just a little dangerous. The girl may indeed not want the baby to die, but she knows what will get to you and that baby is just a tool to her. Keep her away from the baby. If you really want to keep the girl, then the baby needs to go. Either way, this child needs serious help.
Happy

[nork1254]

My husband and I foster/adopted a young man who is now 16 years old. We met him when he was seven. He had been through all the foster homes in his county and was beginning a trek in ours. Earlier diagnosis was depression and ADHD later to depression and anxiety. Very smart. About 1 1/2 years ago they diagnosed him Bi-polar. His behaviors had escalated into verbal and physical agression. He's grown from an average sized 14 yr old into 6'3 1/2" to over 200#. Because we have had numberous calls to the police with the talk or intent to kill and physical agression, he's been in several psyc wards, one state hospital visit, a group home, and now in a treatment residential. In this current residential, they are looking at spectrum autism.'' There are so many newer buzz words that I don't know what to buy into anymore. What I do know is meds help some but don't change the issues. Spectrum autism has no med protocol. They use behavior mgmt which we have spent years using since we were his therapeutic foster parents before adopting. I've gone through all that to say I have no wise words for you-infact, I'm looking for a few for myself. Of course, when my son is plotting how he's going to knife me because he lost computer privs for a day - I gotta wonder if we made a mistake. On the other side, even in family therapy, I look at his face and grieve for what he has gone through and am glad he has a family that is committed to attend his family therapy. Diagnosis, meds, therapist, psycs, wrap-teams, MST in-home have been a big disappointment over the years. The bottom line for us is I can not let him come home or someone may seriously get hurt next time. It's easier to have him in a mental health facility then in a criminal facility. I understand the need to fullfill where so many can't and I understand the urge to run. I won't have a harsh word to say regarding either.

[aMarylandfamily]

I too have to agree with Lucyjoy ... danger is in the air and its more urgent than you are seeing ... our 13 year old often made those comments which we addressed but dismissed - caused by jealousy or privilege losses or whatever ... only to have him begin slowly to show aggressive behaviors towards himself and a sibling in the home and then further escalated into provoking others to do the job to him ... to take away the pain - her comment about the baby may have been masking feelings she's experiencing which she may not understand nor even begin to express at such a young age but don't take it lightly - it may have been to get you to react ... to reward her with violence (verbal or physical) in response to take away that pain. Again - I'm being wordy and I'm sorry!

Learned tonight that our son is again this week refusing participation in family sessions ... reiterating the need for the step-down program in between a return here - if there is to be one ever which is to be decided - I have a hard time when the RTC team members speak of the success they are sure will come of it ... just as the transition to middle school was supposed to do which landed him just short of jail but in a psych hospital for several weeks beyond the normal stabilization period followed by RTC placement - the bi-polar kicks in and out like the tapping of keys on the keyboard for alot of folks and there is no predictability to any of it ... some proceed with extreme monitoring and caution as you just never know and would regret the two minutes you took your eyes off the baby and then something happened.

Please keep writing and please know that even with the horror stories you are hearing as well as the pleas to keep trying that we are all here to educate you, talk things through so some of what you are seeing or experiencing aren't so unreal but aren't real enough at times to actually say they are there and most of all to support you through the hurts that are here now and will come.

[hope4happiness]

Hi everyone. Just wanted to let you know that we were still hanging in there. We have actually had 2 good days/evenings at home. She got in trouble at daycare yesterday for not listening and got a frownie face for the day so she had no TV last night.

I called her therapist the other day after the whole baby deal happened and all she told me (she didn't sound concerned at all) was to keep my eye on the baby. Like if I didn't do that already. When I told her about my daughter pulling her hair and beating herself in the head when she got mad, she told me to restrain her. She was more concerned about that rather than the threats.

I have planned a big outing for this Saturday for just me and my 4 year old. If she's good the rest of the week, I am taking her to Carowinds Theme Park. She has never been and she doesn't even know what a roller coaster is so I figure this will be a great experience for her and a day without having to compete with the baby. We are going with my brother and nephew which she just loves and thinks the world of. He's 5. I may have my hair pulled out by the end of that day. ha ha ha

I'll keep you posted.