[Sherry]

What do all of you consider a 'success'? I'm beginning to wonder if there are ANY older children for whom you can adopt, and then become a family. I haven't heard much good news in the last ten months, what I have heard is people thrilled to adopt who later come back and state their new children are more than they can handle (and they have every right to say so considering the behaviors, this isn't judgement just observation) and they are disrupting.

Does anybody have a story about an older child adoption, let's say over the age of 5, where two years later they are still happy they adopted and the child is healing?

What are some factors that make for a 'successful' older child adoption?

Maybe we should just give up on our idea of growing our family this way and stick with 'part time' such as exchange students, fresh air fund kids, Children of Chernobyl, etc...

What do all of you experienced parents think?

[Linny]

Sherry:
I think if I were to state a successful older adoption placement, it would start in telling you that we personally had to change our definition of the entire topic.
We have one son in RTC, that had we been given ALL info we requested, we would never have adopted. (We now have the paperwork, in hand, that the dept had all the time.)
We also have two children who came to us at 3 and 6yrs. They have been with us for over four years and while they have made great strides, their bond with us is not like the infant adoptions we have had. We love them, we care deeply for them......but it amazes me how the 'loyalties and trust issues' (from them) are oftentimes 'thrown out the window' from time to time------just when we thought they were 'over that'! We could honestly say that parenting them is not 'fun' as were/are the 'infant adoptions'.
Is their placement successful? Yes. But their issues remain.....lessened, but remain. We were ignorant enough to think that the issues would at some point, lessen incredibly. They haven't.
Because of this, I cannot say that our family is 'normal'. There are always considerations to take into account. This is not as we experienced with our first two adoptions that were 'infant' adoptions. Life was not always rosey with them in their teen years........but basically, our family was 'normal'.
I'm now of the opinion that if a family wishes to adopt older children, then they should ONLY adopt older kids. In this way, the family will never be able to 'compare' one style of parenting with the other; for I feel they are very, very different.

Sincerely,

Linny

[Peggy]

Older children are more difficult to parent. To create a family this way, is to create a unique family, that does not really compare to traditional families. These children require a lot (time, patience, money). If you know this going in, you have a better chance of making it work. If you have no other children, or no children to close in age, I think that also makes parenting older children easier. If the match is good, I do think being a parent to an older special needs child, can be rewarding. Take a lot of classes, ask a lot of questions. Know and stick to your limits. It is better to say no in the beginning, when hearing about a possible match, then later disrupting. I was told repeatedly in my classes, Love is not enough. If you think it is you will be dissapointed. Think ahead of the worst case scenario, and ask yourself if you could handle it.Of course I am not 2 years in yet, I am only 1 year in. I know, the teen years will not be easy for me, (she is 9). But there are no gaurantees in life.

[louise]

Josh and Kirstie came home to us, after taking a very long and convoluted journey, when they were 9 and 11. We finalized their adoption a year later, in 2000. All in all we have parented these children, on and off, since they were 6 and 8. They are now 12 and 14. We also have 3 bio children, 13, 13, 16, one DD adopted at birth and now 11 and another son placed at 6yo and now 8.

In particular, Josh and Kirstie are examples of children deemed unadoptable. They came with multiple issues and severe behaviour problems. Josh had a history of residential placement, Kirstie multiple foster placements, some good, some dreadful. They are also "in between" children, in that they are, age wise, placed between our three bio children and our youngest DD.

What makes their adoptions so successful is the fact that they function, in all areas, at a higher level than anyone ever expected. In school, socially, at home, they are participating in ways that all considered impossible. I need to be clear, they are not functioning in all areas as so called normal children, only that their functioning is tremendously improved over where they were at prior to adoption. We, as a family, still struggle at times, with issues of loyalty, trust and belonging. In essence our perception of "normal" has shifted.

Over the years we have learned to acknowledge and grieve the loss of who we were as family previous to each placement. I believe this is vitally important if a family is to move on successfully to include the new children in the now changed landscape of relationships. It is also important to include your existing children in this process. Verbalizing and discussing these feelings demystifies the resentment that can build up when everyone is expending huge amounts of energy to include the newly placed child.

One piece I have come to accept is the fact that, though our children continue to progress, the issues, in essence, remain the same. They may "water down" some, over time, however variations on the same themes continue to crop up over the years.

I cannot stress enough the importance of support in whatever fashion you can acquire it. Online, IRL, through schools, where ever you find unconditional care, hang onto it.

One of the areas I have seen parents struggle and grapple with is acceptance versus resignation. IMO, resignation is "giving up", acceptance is the abilty to receive the child and all the baggage wholeheartedly, embracing WHO that child is because and in spite of the baggage AND believing postive change can come with unconditional love, treatment, if indicated, services for sure, and a drive to expand one's horizons in parenting.

NO, this type of parenting is NOT easy, it is not an endeavour to embark on with the view to having one's adult needs met. It IS rewarding and exciting over the long haul. Joshua, at fourteen, is almost a man. He continues to work on his feelings of inadequecy and fights his inner conflicts between separation (an expected task at his age) and belonging (a task he didn't quite get the chance to complete). He is also getting As and Bs as a freshman in High School, garnered a starting position on the JV football team, is in great shape after a years long battle with his weight, is proud of his african american heritage (no small feat in a white family), volunteers some time coaching younger football players and, in general is a pretty good son and brother.

Kirstie is 12 yo and just beautiful inside and out. She stands strong and proud in her 5' 7" body, is a talented cook/chef, a caring big sister to Ben and Olivia, looks up to her 16 yo sister, Alison, is getting excellent grades in school, has many friends and the most beautiful, ready smile. Her eating disorder is resolved for now, her tendancy to dissociate has, for all intents and purposes, disappeared. She is particularly close to her dad and looks to him for advise and reassurance.

Optimism, tempered with a recognition of reality, is another piece of this puzzle called older child adoption. An ability to laugh at what looks like the outrageous, time for oneself and important adult relationships are other pieces I deem essential.

All in all, this adoption journey has enriched (and complicated!) our lives. I have no regrets.

[Dianna]

Two out of three were "successful" for us; and actually the third worked out "successfully" for everyone involved, especially the child. It just worked out some where else. Our two came to us at 2 1/2 and 5 years. Nine years later the (then 2 1/2 year old and now 11) is an awesome guy and great family member. Our (then 5 year old, now ten year old daughter) is doing very well also. She does all the "normal" stuff. Is in regular activities, classes and peer relationships. Her challenges were and are considerable. She will always have her issues, and they do not get in the way of her success in life and our satisfaction as parents. We are all content with the way things worked out for us. Best Wishes.

[Indy]

Great question Sherry. The board has certainly been rocked with some tramatic adoption experiences. But there have been much success too.

Many of you know my story, some don't. If you do, just skip this part. I am one of the single dads on the board. I may be the only one left, don't know. I have 4 sons J (19), M (13), Ja (11), C (10).

J came to live with me when he was just 16. He is MMR and the IEP that was written was designed to prepare him for a sheltered workshop and a group home. This is always the easy road for the kids that no one wants to deal with. He had an IQ of 63 and scored second and third grade for his skill levels. He was VERY quiet, rarely speaking. He never showed any emotion. At first he did not want to be adopted. I remained committed to him and told him that it did not matter, he had a home. Over the years, he started to come out of his shell. I took the school to task and rewrote his IEP. I took him out of special ed classes (he continued to have two special ed classes) and forced the school to provide him supports in mainstream classes. He made friends in the mainstream (girlfriends too, that's another story). He is now 19. In his last testing at school, he scored a 71 for an IQ. His English skills were 6th grade and his math skills were 4th grade. But most importantly, he smiles and is proud of what he has accomplished. He is now very verbal. He has become a fine young man, who has friends (even a steady girlfriend for a year now!). J has called me dad for a couple of years now, sometimes he slips and calls me daddy. He will live on his own, at least semi independently.

M came to live with me when he was 10. He is diagnosed with Asperger's, a form of autism. He came from a family that had had him for 7 years in foster care. The foster care mother had wanted a little baby and did everything for him. He did not learn to tie his shoes until he was 9! When he first came to live with me, he wore pull ups to bed. It would take him over an hour to eat a meal. He did not know how to clean up after himself and needed help taking a bath. At school, he was in a self contained classroom, due to behavior. That was 2 1/2 years ago. M ties his shoes like a pro. He has not wet the bed in nearly two years! He can be done with a meal in a reasonable amount of time. He takes showers on his own. When it comes to chores, he can think of ones to do on his own (sometimes, LOL). He is mainstreamed in all classes, except one. The school has told me that they have seen more maturity out of him this year. He has friends and I think, is happy.

The last two I have only had for 8 months, so I will wait to write about their successes after a couple of years. I will say that they to are doing much better this year in school than last. They are in soccer and karate.

Sometimes in the evening, I usually sit and think about how lucky I am to have my family. If I had to do it over again, I would.

I hope this answers your question.

Indy

[kay]

I finally have a home computer, so can fully participate. I could read at work, but didn't want to register there.

I consider that my adoption journey has been successful. My son (I'll call him Calvin) came home to me shortly after his 9th birthday. He's 11 now. I'm a single mom. We had months of intense testing, as he tried to see if I really did want him, or if he could provoke me into "giving him back". We were in therapy from the get-go (not required by the agency, I just wanted to do all I could to help the adjustment - for both of us.) He really resisted the therapy, which was not attachment therapy, but was with a therapist with much experience working with foster/group home children and their issues. After a year (almost to the day!) we didn't have anything more to work on. We still have issues, we still have occasional battles, but they are mostly normal "almost a teenager" struggles at this point. He just had a blowout this week, and I checked back with the therapist, but we decided that, although self-esteem adoption issues will always be involved, this was more to do with the start of school, a new school, return to homework, more homework, more responsibilities, and the frustration of a newly-broken arm. (Enough to cause anyone to tantrum!)

Has it been easy? Not at all, especially at first. Has it been worth it? Absolutely! Are we a family? You bet! Will we do it again? Perhaps - we're just starting to think and talk about that possibility. (I want us to at least embark on the teen years first, and see how we're doing at that point.)

Fostering and adoption are not for the faint of heart, and a good support system is essential. There were glitches and heartaches before this success (but that's for another question!) but it is absolutely possible, and absolutely worth it.

[Graham]

Great contributions from everyone.
I think what constitutes success varies considerably depending on the perspective of the person making the judgement. From the point of view of the State, adoption is a big success. Children are stabilized and at a far lower cost to taxpayers (about 85% of older child adoptions do not fail).

From the agency view, the child has a much improved chance of geting a halfway decent education (the best we Californians seem able to provide..lol), more appropriate services from the helping professions delivered in a more timely manner, a much reduced risk of encountering abuse (physical and/or sexual), a real opportunity for enduring relationships that will not simply disappear at age 18, and family members who will be there as the young adult makes the often shakey transition to independent living.

Several parent's perspectives are beautifully described above and I'm not going to add to those, except to say that what may be seen as success for one child is likely to be different from what is succes for another. Sometimes just the fact that the child arrives at school in time, appropriately dressed and with his homework done is a major success! For another family the expectations will be different and maybe a B average is also required for the day, and the adoption, to be seen as a success.

Many times on our forums boards we have seen a parent describe a deep sense of failure over some development in the adoption, only to receive lots of replies from others who see overall success, albeit with some significant challenges and setbacks.

I don't even think its a question of, "If you had it over would you do it again". For me, as a social worker, success is the fact that the child has at least one person who is committed forever to doing the best that they can for their child, no matter what happens or who is living where. And in the long run its been my experience that the children feel the same way. You didn't give up on them. That's success in my book.

Graham

[Susan Ward]

As everyone has said, older child adoption success varies from child to child and family to family.

I consider the adoption of my daughter a great success. That does not mean it's been easy. In fact, it was often horrendous. She was six when I adopted her. She was cute, curious, fun, and smart. She was also rage-filled and controlling. Eventually, I found her the right therapy and after 17 challenging months of attachment therapy, she was attached.

She's now been home almost five years. She's an all A student, gets along with peers, does her chores willingly (most of the time!), is fun to travel with, etc. Parenting her has been the most challenging thing I've ever done. It's changed my life forever. I do know I've been blessed with parenting a wonderful child.

If people adopting older children are looking for perfect, well-behaved, emotionally mature, developmentally on target kids, they'll probably be disappointed. If they're looking to help a child be the best they can be, they'll probably have a successful adoption.

[Dr. Art]

Certainly one has to think long and hard about what you mean by successful. And one has to examine one's own soul to see what you will and won't be able to live with.

That being said, MANY older children can be successfully integrated into a family. One key element is that the family get the support it needs and that the child received appropriate treatment to help the family help the child heal from past traumas. I've worked successfully with many families, hundreds actually, that have adopted "older" (older than 5) children. I usually reserve the word older for ten and above. The fast majority of these children have had good experiences being adopted. The biggest part of the equation is the family and their capatcity to meet the emotional and psychological needs of the child and, with support and treatment, help the child heal. The other part of the equation is getting the right treatment. If you go go my website you will find a number of letters and stories written by older children who have been successfully adopted and treated...many are teens.

Regards

[carol echternac]

I am responding to an archive post about adopting older children and how the family bonds after several years.

So far we are in our 3rd year. we adopted 3 sisters. Two of whom grew up together in one orphange and 1 developmenally delayed child who grew up in another orphanage. I had this fantasy that if we adopted all 3 of them and put them together in a family they would grow to love each other and really appreciate what I did. Oh by the way they are 16, 14 and 12 now.

The two girls barely tolerate their other sister and have never " grown close ". After 3 years and the teen hormones are kicking in we are beginning the teen battles.

All kids are a lot of work. I think many adoptive parents go in with the fantasy of a beautiful family and come away with a lot of difficulties that are just going to be present when you adopt kids.

We are hoping that by the 5th year we should have a better stabiliy with our girls. It takes a lot of time to habituate kids into families when they have never had a family before.
Carol

[Graham]

Thanks Carol for archiving then coming back here. Its not easy to nav I know. I think your comment about habituating kids into families when they have never had a family before is terrific. In many situations its exactly that. We ask them to live on a planet that is not the one they know. No wonder its so scary for them.
Graham

[lucyjoy]

My kids(6) were adopted between 5 and 9 years. They had a lot of problems but I now have 3 very healthy attached teenagers and 1 healthy elementary child. I also have one in an RTC and one at home with multiple placements(had 5 previous disrupted adoptions). I think parenting is fun. Success is when the laughter and closeness in the house is more often then the tears. Hard work? yes, very. Worth it? abosolutely.

[alisab]

Hope I get this right...

I've joined this chat room, my very first, to respond to this question.

First, my partner and I, after considering various options, desided to adopt a sibiling group though the waiting children process. Over one and a half years ago we were united with our two son's, half brothers, who had been together through their foster care experience. At the time they were 8 and 10, now 9 and 12 (How does that happen?). We had no parenting experience at all.

Well, as all of you know, this alone would mean a huge evolution in our lives (never parenting before). Today, I am a parent and, believe it or not, I am happy about it too. It may be that we recieved higher functioning children than many I've heard about, but we have been growing into a family in a very real and loving way - all of us. When children are older it seems to be a more conscious choice about coming together - like an arranged marriage.

There were many stages that I went though and I'm sure my family (a word that has real meaning) did as well. Here are some of my experiences:

Doing dishes and laundry all the time. Guessing at what was really important - how to guide children and where to guide them to! Having a hard time, especially about compentency with my new job as parent. Grieving the loss of my old life. Not liking the boys. I must put these boys first in my life! Feeling like I'd entered the portal of hell. So much work! Fearing that I would be overwhelmed. Thinking I'd made a big mistake. Finding the general (maybe dictator) within. Setting boundaries, so that I could stand living with these kids. Calmer times, sometimes the boys would be so silly and funny. They are really willing to do chores, as long as I'm working too. Experiencing my own sillyness. Feeling love back and forth. The different ways the boys reach out to us.

Well, I'm sure we will have more challenges, especially as they get into thier teens. But we are doing pretty well now - as a family. I really like it and I feel really lucky.

I think that I'm not very different than many others who are approching adoption, even those choosing waiting children. Regardless of all the training and reading and support meetings we went to prior to getting the boys, we really didn't have a clear idea of what getting children would be like. Children, children, children pulsed through our brains, moreso as we got closer to the end of our homestudy. Then it happens, and it can be very hard, it felt hard to me. After a while things got easier, but we also needed support. We have a lot of support and we will continue to build more.

I've kicked drugs, alcohol, dyslexia (though my spelling will always be rough), depression, and death of a partner to cancer. As you can see, I've had my challenges, but nothing in my life has been more challenging than this. Still, I'm glad I did it.

[Graham]

Thank you so much for your contribution. Post more, because you're important here!
Graham