[mchll]

We are pre/adoptive parents of a sibling group, boy 6, and two younger sisters 4 and 2 yrs old through DHS, after 6 months of bonding B opened up to us about the sexual abuse from his bio-father. Then we learned he has been abusing sister 4. in our home, under our noses, and even before they came to us. Very traumatizing for her, we thought it best to do emergency removal of him from our home. DHS and children's attorney, and Judge believe "in the best interest of the siblings" they should be adopted together, all or none. Both in separate therapy, we don't want to give up the girls, and want to save the girls from possible life long abuse.Only loving parents girls have ever known and are very attached to my wife and I, we would love some advice on best steps to take to keep the girls.

[momagain5]

this is very sad.these children are victims of abuse.the 6 year old finally felt safe enough with you to tell you about the abuse.you had him removed from your home!how will he ever trust adullts?he is a young child who has been abused,and yes some children abuse other children.what this child needs is therapy and alot of supervision around other children.the 4 year old may also need therapy.i am not sure seperateing these siblings is the best for them.with ongoing therapy and supervision in a loving and supportive home these children could heal.with help its possible these siblings could live together ,and not abuse each other.not all children that have been sexually abused,go on to abuse others.my heart goes out to these children.

[LibbyHawkins]

I have to say you did what you thought was best, and it's the only thing we can do as Foster Parents.

I think it is hard to say (if not impossible) where you as a Foster Parent would stand until you have been placed in this position.

What are the statistics on victims becoming offenders, anyone know where to get that information?

[mchll]

ya , well we we're pre/adoptive and bonded with all three in our home for six months, we are making sure he gets help, and the girls as well, we do feel that they should have supervised contact as long as the girls want, but just don't think it is best for them to live in the same home. you can't imagine how much better,happier,more outgoing the girls are doing, two weeks now and they don't ask about him, the only time they ever hugged each other was when we made them. We worry we're going to lose the girls, any advise?

[mchll]

we did not remove him because he was abused, Nov 7th was when he told my wife,we contacted DHS they told us to report it with another dept. (we knew these children were safe,but there was another little cousin in the home of the abuser, this was our concern), they said someone would contact us. 4 days later we don't hear anything so we call again, thay tell us they will call us to set up a time to visit with the boy. For the the next week still nothing, we're making calls trying to get the cousin safe. Then their all out for Thanksgiving and the weekend!!! Then we discover (being told by both the boy and girl that he has been doing things) (things we were unaware 4 and 6 year olds knew, let alone do), this was the point at which we removed him, but we talked with him and he understood he was leaving to receive help, not because he told us. By the way they finally made the interview with him a week after removal from our home, he wouldn't tell them anything, he wouldn't open up to them, we even told them to call us and let us know when , so we could be there for him for support, but they did not call us.

[AmahMama]

I had a situation quite similar except they children were not adoptive. They were 2 weeks away from being ru'd w/bio when someone in CPS/DHS or somewhere woke up and paid attention to the facts of the sexual acting out (alone and on each other) of 2 of 4 of the children that had been reported to cw, thereapist, license worker all along (7 months). They were both under 4 yo. THAT day a hotline call was made, and they were ALL immediately removed - over our very loud protests!!! They were put into seperate facilities for 2 weeks, no therapy, wrote a letter to the judge, went to court, the judge never even read it. 2 weeks after they were removed from my home because they were a danger to each other - they were ru'd with mom in a 3 bdrm home.

DHS needs some REAL work done to make it even come close to making sense.

You reported what you needed (mandated by law!!) and the child was penalized for it. There were many avenues they could've taken but they just see the numbers. report - removed - resolved.

Sorry about another of my soapboxes - the whole story is somewhere on this board - it was last spring when this happened to us. I don't understand - We offered to be there for the kids too - we didn't want them moved only to be moved again. They had to be seperated for their own safety - for 2 weeks???? - and then to a home smaller than ours. And not a drop of therapy for the 2 that were performing on each other. A relative has kept in contact with me so I know part of how they are doing. I do so hope it works out for them.

Now where does your little guy go? If you do a "safety plan" will he be able to come back to you? He won't get help until he can trust someone again to open up - and with what happens when he does - this may be well into his adulthood.

Good luck with it all - I still have pictures in my head that won't go away - and a sad spot in my heart when it comes to these kids being ripped out of our home only to be dumped somewhere else for 2 weeks. . . . someone has to tell me what they do makes some sort of sense.
"Rant - My wit's end" - tells part of the sadness and hopelessness I often feel as a foster parent. As with my own children, I cannot be everywhere or everything at once.

[mchll]

We took the classes ,got licensed, went through all their hoops, all the time knowing we had Love , and a safe home to offer children that needed someone with all this and more in their lives. Only to find out that all the cookie cutting regulations hurt these children more, and there isn't a darn thing we can do about it.(in our case 100% percent of the time.) We're sick to our stomachs and frustrated that the system that is supposed to help,,, well enough said, - our input doesn't matter to the ones in charge, unless there is a change waaaaaay up the ladder, all this is just bla,bla,bla.

[Hadley2]

The proof is in the pudding. If there is a marked change in the girls for the better with brother out of the home, then it was probably the healthy thing for all concerned.

Drawing from the experience of friends who adopted a sibling group with similar problems, it is very difficult if not impossible to break these patterns while the perpetrator has ready victims at hand. It is also hard to avoid having it "spread"--victims may eventually perp on each other and others outside the home. It would not be fair to the boy to leave him/put him in a home with other children--too much temptation.

And these things take time. It would not be fair to the other children to expect them to suffer through his progress and relapses--relapses which wouldn't happen if there were no other children present.

Trying to supervise a group of children in the home when one is perping on the others is a nightmare. I did it for our friends a few times for just a few hours during the day and it was awful and I thought a very unnatural, unhealthy way to raise children--everyone herded around the house and yard together, no touching of any kind, and so many other rules that the blanket of negativity and suspicion was just overwhelmingly heavy. They finally gave up and placed the violating one with other family for almost two years.

Few of us, I think, could live that way for very long without being overwhelmed by the anxiety that goes with it. I know there are some fps who do, who go for the alarms, etc., and keep their perspective and deal with it with equanimity, but it's a lot to ask or expect.

If he is not compulsive, if he is not impaired by FAS/FAE, drug exposure, or mental illness to the degree that he cannot maintain abstinence from this activity or that he actually accelerates or migrates to other disturbing behaviors (violence, etc.), it may be possible that he might be able to return in the future, but it could be a really long time. In the meantime, if that door stays open, tightly supervised visits would need to continue.

As for keeping the girls, I think the best you can do is work with and appeal to their therapist and GAL, document their improvement since his removal in any way you can--schoolwork and teacher notes, therapist's observations, number and frequency of emotional disturbances, even overall physical health--anything that points to enhanced well being. It would probably help if you kept an open mind on the boy's return and showed willingness (as you seem to have) to continue supporting some kind of relationship among the children, whether they live together or not.

Good luck. It sounds as if you have done a wonderful job with all the kids so far and certainly care about them a lot.