[MomToThree]

My DH and I adopted 3 children in 2005. In February 2007, my middle son was caught stealing at school, and "begged and cried" that the teacher and assistant teacher not tell his parents because he would "have to eat liver with hot sauce".

Many of you may think liver as a punishment is wrong... but it worked. The hot sauce was always a threat if he didn't hurry up and eat.

Anyway a Social Worker visited, and he admitted that this was stupid and a waste of his time but his supervisor made him investigate. I explained all my disciplinarian efforts which includes paddling and I asked what I needed to do to just make him go away. Afterwards, I received a letter that me and my DH signed saying that we would not use hot sauce as a punishment, and that the case was closed and no further action was necessary.

Please understand that the two youngest boys were and are to some extent stubborn, and were a trial in the beginning. But we have finally gotten to a point where our biggest problem is that the youngest child sometimes refuses to do his class work or home work.

Our whole family... me, my DH, and each child have looked at a listing online for a sibling group where one child is 16 and the other 12 and would really love to add them to our family. We have enough room and would love to include these kids into our lives, but the county refuses to license us because of this liver/hot sauce incident. They also disapprove of the fact that we paddle.

We would really love to add to our family, but don't know how at this point. Until this, we were considered excellent adoptive parents. What should I do? Also, please be kind with your responses... my three were very difficult the first 2 years, and are now pretty much acclimated. My kids really want another brother and sister... not to mention how we parents feel.

Thanks for any advice you give.

[peregrinerose]

When we started on this road, also looking at older kids (age 12+), we had to sign a contract stating that there would be absolutely no physical consequences at all... hitting, spanking, paddling, etc.

These kids sometimes know nothing but violence, so to hit them or paddle them only re-enforces that. Besides, a smack on the hind end might get the attention of a 3 year old, but is completely inappropriate on a 12 year old.... it teaches them nothing about dealing with conflict.

Look at what paddling does through the eyes of a child that's already been abused and neglected. If you do it honestly, and do a lot of digging through the psych research, you'll probably find much more appropriate and effective ways to handle things.

[sugarmuffin]

I am with what peregrinerose said.... look at the paddling thing and what it really does. Plus and I mean this in the nicest, kindest way what does eating liver with what sauce teach?

[GlamRock]

Using liver as punishment is odd, but not really abuse. I can't really comment on the hot sauce though. I think it depends on the context. To be honest, I don't think it would ever be an appropriate punishment.

I do understand their concerns about paddling. Given that so many kids come from abusive homes, physical discipline really isn't appropriate at all ever for foster or adoptive kids. On top of that, you are also using an instrument to hit them with (a paddle). A LOT of people I see with "attachment issues" were spanked regularly. Every single abusive parent I've met started out spanking and things escalated from there, usually because the parent felt that it was "necessary" or that they couldn't discipline any other way (you can). My kid's room would be spartan and their allowance $0 before I would resort to spanking or paddling.

I'm not saying that you are abusing your children, but you have to understand that it looks really bad. Especially on paper, and being read by people who don't live in your house. Really try to see it from the social worker's perspective. At 2pm they have an appointment with someone who paddles (and is abusive), at 3pm they have an appointment with someone who paddles (but isn't abusive). It can be really hard to tell the difference between them.

Also, the only age that open-palm spanking is ever appropriate is 3-11. And even then, it is supposed to be a punishment of last resort. If a client of mine were spanking on a regular basis, I would recommend parenting classes to them. But you mention that it was only for the first two years. You could make a case that your kids have thrived since being placed with you, and that it's rare that you have to use that punishment (if that's the case). And definitely read some books made for adults who were abused as children. I highly recommend "Toxic Parents," which is a classic and is required reading in some social work classes. A lot of foster kids deal with these issues and it's a great way to see a situation through their eyes.

I do wish you luck with trying to adopt another sibling group, as you seem very nice.

[mimiandgigi]

I don't think using hot sauce and punishment is bad, sometimes you need to get creative with the discipline for the kids. The hot sauce is great to use for lying. As for paddling to each his own, they should allow parents to discipline children the way they want to as long as they are not putting the children in danger. I grew up getting spanked and I turned out fine. Well good luck to you.