[dpen6]

Originally Posted by BrockBaby

I was responding to this particular post of yours....forgive me for not making that more clear in my reply.

Cetally,

This is also the same post that got to me. You were saying you wanted to delete and that it rubbed you the wrong way...why? It really had nothing to do with you but everything to do with those of us that were posting. I have never told you you need to think a certian way about your circstanses...but you in effect, with the psot above are telling us that our feelings on not feeling grateful to have to be adopted are wrong...otherwise why would it rub you the wrong way?

I truly beleive that adiotee feelings are so threatening to the moms...both adoptive and birth....and no matter which way we think...it will be wrong to someone....that when the honest feelings are heard some feel its ok to just negate them....how many aparents feel prmal wound is bunk, hogwash ect....because it makes them feel better to think it is...it makes them more of a mom...how many bmoms want to beleive their might be something to it after all it makes their position more important in their childs life and while all of it is understandable how about listening to the ones its about...the adoptees...

The longer I am on these forums the more I am seeing the abject defensivenss thrown at adoptees, the inability for adoptees to voice what ever it is they feel, the "scolding" that adults will get from others ...alll because THEY ( the adoptee) was put up for adoption. So yup....the older I get, the more I learn and the more I see...I will say without a shadow of a doubt that adoption is about the adoptee.....and anyone who doesn't see it that way is being self serving, self protective. With that being said(sad I have to put this disclaimer) all people that are part of that adoptees unique adoption are desrving of respect and understanding...but I also beleive that the adoptee no matter how old needs to come to a place of confidence about themsoves and the situaion they were put into before they can "give" to others. Otherwise we are being twisted to and from.....all because we exist.

Cetally, I don't understand your anger towards me...I am not making any deals, I have not told you how to feel about your situion....peace

[shadow riderer]

Just in case: Cetally, none of my post were directed at you. They were just my reaction to what Dpen said, and as to how Brock and lynard's Bmom's could say such things...or anyone could say such things. Dpen is right about how people expect adoptees to be greatful. As a blind person, I get all sorts of rmarks, like, "At least it's not cancer.", "Well, at least you could see and weren't born blind.", and my personal favorite, "At least you don't look like you are blind. I was coming out of the bathroom at a horse show once, and I hear this woman say, "It's good to see people like that getting out." Uhm, "people like that"? What did she mean "people like that"? I about bit my tongue off. It's a good thing she wasn't within reach of my cane. I might of accidently whacked her and said, "OH, didn't see you standing there."

We all know we have a lot to be greatful for and it could always be worse, but you can just take stupid, insensitive remarks for so long before you need to just get it off your chest. That woman had no idea how degrading her remark was, and probably would have been offended had I said anything to her. She would have thought me ungreatful. After all, she was paying me a compliment.

That's the thing that bumfuzzles me more than anything. Someone says something like , to an adoptee, "You should be greatful you weren't aborted.", and then they don't understand why we don't melt with humility and appreciation when really they just humiliated and depreciated us. They actually even get angry. People's insensitivity and stupidity are just mind blowing sometimes. What's hard is that explaining to them what their remarks were, would just be a waste of time, and all you can do is feel sorry for them.

Thank you for allowing me to get it off my chest. That's why I come here, disect and vent, because there are people here who understand and have been through it too.

Again, not directed at anyone...just venting. Trying to discuss and vent feelings outside of this place is just to tiring and frustrating, not to mention, not worth the trouble.

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by shadow riderer

Just in case: Cetally, none of my post were directed at you. They were just my reaction to what Dpen said, and as to how Brock and lynard's Bmom's could say such things...or anyone could say such things. Dpen is right about how people expect adoptees to be greatful. As a blind person, I get all sorts of rmarks, like, "At least it's not cancer.", "Well, at least you could see and weren't born blind.", and my personal favorite, "At least you don't look like you are blind. I was coming out of the bathroom at a horse show once, and I hear this woman say, "It's good to see people like that getting out." Uhm, "people like that"? What did she mean "people like that"? I about bit my tongue off. It's a good thing she wasn't within reach of my cane. I might of accidently whacked her and said, "OH, didn't see you standing there."

We all know we have a lot to be greatful for and it could always be worse, but you can just take stupid, insensitive remarks for so long before you need to just get it off your chest. That woman had no idea how degrading her remark was, and probably would have been offended had I said anything to her. She would have thought me ungreatful. After all, she was paying me a compliment.

That's the thing that bumfuzzles me more than anything. Someone says something like , to an adoptee, "You should be greatful you weren't aborted.", and then they don't understand why we don't melt with humility and appreciation when really they just humiliated and depreciated us. They actually even get angry. People's insensitivity and stupidity are just mind blowing sometimes. What's hard is that explaining to them what their remarks were, would just be a waste of time, and all you can do is feel sorry for them.

Thank you for allowing me to get it off my chest. That's why I come here, disect and vent, because there are people here who understand and have been through it too.

Again, not directed at anyone...just venting. Trying to discuss and vent feelings outside of this place is just to tiring and frustrating, not to mention, not worth the trouble.

LOLOLOL....I wish you did!!!( the bolded section)

Good post.....agree 100%. AND it doesn't matter which way the adoptee is feeling, complete contact, no contact, whatever there is someone telling you you are wrong, not compassionate, ect.

[BethVA62]

Or

my child (the adoptee) may be grateful I was replaced by so called "better" more "deserving" parents and environments?

I can see where this can be very difficult and painful for moms and adoptees to sort through and discuss.

I dunno, I'm too curious, help me out here please.

[BrockBaby]

dpen... I honestly think that sometimes people don't get it that when a person says that they feel a certain way, and they aren't going to allow someone else to tell them they can't feel that way, that they are not in turn saying but you have to see things my way as well. By you saying that you aren't going to have someone tell you what to be grateful for, does not mean that you are in turn telliing someone else what to or not to be grateful for in their life. What we are or aren't grateful for in our lives does not define what another person is or isn't grateful for. I could be soooooo grateful to be adopted..but that doesn't mean that my bmom has to be grateful that I was adopted. My take on the situation does not define that of those who are connected to my personal situation. I could feel grateful to a person, and they might not want me to, but their opinion does not change my gratitude. So, for others to think that we are going to change our gratitude, or lack of gratitude, because of their opinion is ludacris. So we will continue to choose for ourselves what we are grateful for in our own lives...and as always, we will continue to stand on the fact that we let others choose for themselves as well.....just a warning to those out there that want to tell us what to be grateful for..we aren't going to lay down and say..OKAY!! Nope, we are too strong for that!

[shadow riderer]

Lynn, I'm blushing. Take anything I say and use it accordingly. Dpen. Uhm, bold? (razzing you) I won't tell you what I wanted to say to her. My husband was steering me out of cane range. He knows me well. lol Use your imagination in both cases. lol

Now, I can't keep up with all this. I'm taking a break. Be back when things slow down and I can catch up. Thanks you guys.

[Dickons]

Originally Posted by cetalley

I will stop this nonsense and go back to deleting it daily. It is such a small word, that ,obviously, has many being caught with a crawl up their britches! Enough about gratitude. Just be firggin grateful, you are you....there are TOO MANY OTHERS WHO HAVE IT WORSE! If you are my twins and you are reading this...I hope you are grateful...for many things....but PLEASE...PLEASE, PLEASE,by no means feel gratitude to me, and for goodness sake DO NOT DISSECT THE WORD!

Cetally,

Please read the end of your post above then say you did not tell us to be greatful "we are who we are" (" " words were changed by me) which comes with all the baggage that makes us who we are.

Sometimes the best way to deal with things that bother us is by talking about it, not by demeaning the topic.

Regards,
Dickons

[Janeytwo]

my child (the adoptee) may be grateful I was replaced by so called "better" more "deserving" parents and environments?

Hmmm...interesting point.

Speaking in general terms........

I don't believe for even one moment that the people who adopted my daughter and son are "better" or "more deserving" than I am.

I don't think that. They're not better than me. They're not any worse either. They're people - plain and simple with their own dreams, their own struggles, their own lives. Shrug. I imagine they're very much like the rest of us; trying to do right by themselves and their children in the best way they can. Playing one-up, one-under is a viscious game that holds little respect for the other player.

Look, people talk about how they're not going to bow down because they're adopted. And **** straight they shouldn't!

But I tell ya what. In all honesty and with no hatred to anyone....I'm not going to bow down to society.....walk around melting into the pavement like some scum that beats up little old ladies for their pension checks just because I carry the title "birthmother".

I'm not going to do that.

I'm not going to depricate myself in the eyes of society because society has decided that it knows what the frig it's talking about when it comes to the circumstances of my youth/my life/my decisions.

Society doesn't know what the frig it's talking about. All it does know is how to point it's finger away from itself so that no one will notice the underhanded baloney it's been up to. Again, not meant to anyone in here.

Here's an example: "Hey! I might be sleeping around on my husband , but at least I'm not like Janey! At least I didn't give up my children!" (And that's a direct quote from a so-called friend who seemed to think that extra-marital sex with every man she encountered was perfectly fine as long as she could justify it by pointing out everyone else's mistakes).

Yeah...okay there (name withheld out of respect though she doesn't deserve it)......I'll ah....I'll give ya a medal.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

[RavenSong]

Beth, you said that you were trying to figure out why birth/first moms could be triggered by adoptees who are discussing why they may or may not be grateful for being adopted. I've been giving this a lot of thought, and in doing so, I've had to go back in my memories to when I reunited with my son in 1990.

I think that most birthmothers from the '60s thru the '80s were fed the same myth by adoption professionals. Namely, that our children would go on to live these perfect little lives, with perfect parents (think June and Ward Cleaver), perfect houses with perfect picket fences, perfect schools and colleges, summer camp, and music lessons. In other words, a myth...

I think that many birthmoms who haven't reunited with their children yet are often scared to death to find out that the line the social workers fed us was just a myth. I know you guys have read about birthmom pain ad nauseum, and I think most of you understand it pretty well. I think that many birthmoms come to believe that the pain was worth it in the long run if our children thrived in their new homes.

When a birthmom "comes out of hiding", it can be really scary for her to suddenly find out that some adoptees have negative feelings about being relinquished. It conflicts with how we've envisioned our children while they were growing up. Most of us assumed that our kids were very happy, well loved, and cherished because that's what the adoption agencies promised us...superhuman adoptive parents who would somehow make superhuman, happy children out of our babies.

When we find out that our kids grow up not feeling especially happy at the thought of being relinquished, I think it triggers guilt, fear, and anger. Does that make any sense at all?

As I said, it's just a theory I've got, and it may very well be totally off base. It's the only thing I can come up with as far as a possible explanation for bmom triggers...

[BethVA62]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

When we find out that our kids grow up not feeling especially happy at the thought of being relinquished, I think it triggers guilt, fear, and anger. Does that make any sense at all?

Yes, it makes complete sense, thank you.
That's my momma.
The only time my mom has shown her anger to me was when I told her: Hell no I was not grateful to be separated from her - I don't think she really heard what I said, I think she heard I was not grateful to be given the life I was.

janeytwo, I didn't mean to trigger you or lead you to believe, that you or I believe the "better" "more deserving" Myth.

Thanks for showing me that trigger and the myth behind it.

[BrockBaby]

Raven...I think that you explained very well what I've heard many bmoms express. Reading your post reminded me that when I am reacting to something that someone else says, that I need to look at the reason why I reacted the way I did when they were sharing their thoughts, ideas, feelings, ect. I do not need to examine them but myself. We react to things we have connections with, and it is, in my opinion, our duty to get to the core of why we react to certain things the way we do. Many times it is transference. We transfer how we felt at one point in our lives to situations that remind us of the original situation. So sometimes those triggers are going to be about something else, but if we look back at why they are causing that trigger we may be shocked to realize the root of the problem. The bottom line, we can't change others, only ourselves and the way we react to them....

[dpen6]

Janey,

I undeerstand you not wanting to bow down to society, you should not have to, you did nothing wrong. But that has nothing to do with our adoption and thats what happens we as adoptees either speak positivly or negativly about OUR lives and someone comes in to tell us that How our lives impacted them.

I know for me when I speak of my situation (was not really horrible) and someone says BUT BUT BUT ,,,it tells me they are not really listening, taking it personally, or really don't care about me or my situation as thiers is more important...kwim.

We are seperate indivuals from our mothers and will have unique feelings and just to have someone listen and attempt to understand(as I have done my whole life) and not feel threatened with laashing out and telling us how wrong we are to feel about OUR OWN situations is fustrating at best.

What i feel or any other adoptee for that matter does not mean I am judging anothers feelings, it just is.

[Janeytwo]

Hey Beth! (((( Beth ))))

Nah!! Don't give it a second thought, my good friend. I know you weren't directing that at me. I just speak in terms of what I've lived because it's the only place I have to speak from.

I worry sometimes that where I've been must make my responses seem violent or harsh. But I always hope no one thinks that I am violent or harsh! LOL!

I was just speaking in general terms of things that happened to me on this strange and sorrowful journey through the maze of adoption.

It is terrible the base actions people will take. I would've never dreamed that anyone I thought of as a friend could use my pain against me in such a selfish way.

Sometimes I just don't even know what to think of the human race.



Hey Dpen6! Hugs to ya!

I would never tell someone how to feel or think. We can each only speak from where we've been. This stuff you all write of; these feelings they are valid....at least I believe they are valid.

I may not be in a position to completely understand them; that doesn't negate their importance.

Not at all. Actually the fact that I haven't walked a mile in your shoes presages my working 3 times as hard to have compassion for what you've seen.

Anything less on my part is a failure on my part.

Much peace to you guys!! Always!!!

[BethVA62]

[quote=Janeytwo]I worry sometimes that where I've been must make my responses seem violent or harsh. But I always hope no one thinks that I am violent or harsh! LOL!


me tooooooooo
It's hard for me when talking about the yucky end of adoption and stuff I have survived by human-not-so-kind, without sounding harsh.
I'm rarely harsh LOL and usually only with the dog.

[BethVA62]

It feels so good to be an old gal that has found her voice, her self, and is not afraid to say ANYTHING! :-O