[Toff]

God decided whether we'd be born or not? Oh glurge.

[paigeturner]

Originally Posted by Toff

God decided whether we'd be born or not? Oh glurge.

Why not? He/She is the same God that apparently made me drink too much beer, jump in the backseat of that '68 Rally Sport, get knocked up and decide to place my son...all because he/she had a hopeful adoptive parent MEANT to parent my son.

Gag and glurge! There was NO correlation for me between my decision not to terminate my pregnancy and my decision to place my son. No need to be grateful for THAT! IMO.

Originally Posted by Janey

On Roe - You know if there is one thing I absolutely hate about it. That would have to be how people always start out trying to debate it intelligently and then you watch from the sideslines as it morphs into a "Crips v. Bloods" debacle. Personally, I'd rather cut off my own foot with a dull knife than get into a "discussion" about it.

On the gratitude thing.....First of all, this is the adoptee forum. And they have to have a place to work out their stuff.

No. I myself don't particularly understand how because I'm a birthmom I might be lumped in with someone who says to their kid "Be thankful you weren't aborted." The day I say that to any of my children is the day they take me to the home, because I've lost my friggin mind and need a nice quiet place to rest which offers conveniently located bathrooms.

And (also IMO) Telling someone to be thankful they weren't aborted is about on par with someone sticking a gun in my mouth and then asking me to thank them for not pulling the trigger.

That said.....

On the OP who originally started this thread - I've had my druthers. I personally think that they chose this subject deliberately just to cause dissention. People do that sometimes because it makes them feel important. They say something that they know is controversial and offensive and then sit back and wait for everyone to come howling in defending their particular positions.

Why give someone that kind of power? They're not going to listen to your point of view or be swayed by it, and pardon me, but who gives a rat's a**? Yeah, you can try politely to state the con argument. But after that? You're wasting your breath.

It's their opinion. The old adage applies, "opinions are like you-know-whats....everyone has one."

I don't have to buy into it.

Respectfully,

I adore you.

[stilldeciding]

I was given up by my birth dad at birth and raised by my Mom and her husband, who signed my birth certificate the day I was born. I did not find out this till I was in my early 20's...the news turned my life upside down, yet I still had at least one of my biological parents and my adoptive Dad was always awesome to me. I was confused a long time...at the age of 25 my adoptive dad passed away suddenly. At that moment, I wanted to find my birth Dad and make him want a relationship with me. Then the next thought was the realization that MY Dad was dead and I couldn't replace him, not even with a man who shared the same genetic link with me. My BIO dad and I spoke briefly once when I first found out the news and I ran into him by chance at a few different stores...he lived in the same town and had 5 other kids. Yet he wanted NEVER anything to do with me. It took me a long time to understand that though I would always be missing a genetic link, things I didn't know about the other side..I was glad, for me I never knew till I was older, as I had a chance at a life with a Father who loved me, but more importantly wanted me. Yes I was angry...but at almost 37..I do now realize the blessing it was to have WHO I had as my REAL Dad...the man who took care of when I was sick, applauded as I went to my first Prom, bought me everything I could ever want, cheer me up when I was down and walk me down the aisle when I got married. Nothing can compare to that or the many memories I have with HIM! In your case, allow yourself to be angry...that is your way to grieve what inevitably WAS lost being an adoptee! You can't remove the anger till you face the pain of the whole situation. For me, I had a wonderful Dad who loved me so much, that even in death I would dream of him. But it took a long time to grieve, to be angry, to allow myself to feel anything I needed to feel. And through many years, I have found more peace in this situation then I ever thought possible, but it took years and years. God Bless!

[adoptedmoesly]

Hi All,

I am new here but wanted to say that at one level I am grateful that my BMOM chose life over abortion. But after meeting my BMOM it became clear to me that she did not give me up for adoption because of some sense of wanting a better life for me. It was purely selfish on her part.

She had been having an affair with a married man, got pregnant, lied to him told him she had miscarried, and was just recently divorced herself and thought that her ex and my BDAD would make trouble for her and she would loose both her kids (I have a older half brother).

So bottom line is that our BMOMS and BDADS came from different places at different times and each set of circumstances are different for everyone. I think the best we can do is to understand and take whatever good we can from our individual situations.

Be well, Moesly

[BethVA62]

Originally Posted by adoptedmoesly

She had been having an affair with a married man, got pregnant, lied to him told him she had miscarried, and was just recently divorced herself and thought that her ex and my BDAD would make trouble for her and she would loose both her kids (I have a older half brother)

oh moesly, I'm so sorry and sorry that your mother found her self in the situation of having to surrender one of her children to save the other. I'm sorry she had to feel that, and you've had to live with it.
best wishes
Beth

[adoptedmoesly]

Thanks Beth. It took me a long time to come to grips with it but I understand her thinking even if it was selfish thinking. After getting to know her I decided I did not want a relationship with my bio family and we parted ways. But during an argument she told me that she chose my brother over me and she would always choose my brother over me. It was tough...I learned be careful what you wish for and that fantasy is always better than reality.

Be well, M

[einigkeit]

I am most certainly NOT grateful that my bmom chose to give birth to me rather than do the 'right' thing when there is a question of incest and terminate. Actually, I have days when I resent her decision to give me this life.

[BethVA62]

einigkeit

I know it sucks feeling that way, I've spent many days stuck with that feeling too, and it really sucks. And it's tuff to get rid of that self torture, it's not hurting anyone but you. But it seemed to pass for me in a couple of days even if I don't try to hard. It still comes back on bad days. I hate seeing anyone feeling this way, I'm sorry einigkeit I know it hurts.

I hope you can find some way today to love yourself more, screw the rest of it. Spend some time doing something you love, if you can't find it in you today to love yourself more.
hang in there
Beth

[BethVA62]

Originally Posted by adoptedmoesly

I learned be careful what you wish for and that fantasy is always better than reality.

i tend to agree LOL i love fantasy land and wish I could live there all the time, it rocks.

Gives me a reason to look forward to dimensia or altzheimers, won't have to wait much longer now!

[dpen6]

cetally, paige turner and any other person that is upset over some adoptee's feelings ..well..its something that we have had to deal with that many of you don't understand. The "being grateful" thing is a trigger to you????? The issue is not that we are ungrateful little jerks...we are grateful for what WE decide to be grateful for not what others decide we SHOULD be grateful for. There are many adoptees that ARE Grateful for being born...yes I am...but not grateful to have birthfamilies, afamilies, friends abd coworkers tell you with no prompting that "you should be grateful you were not aborted"..and yes, its happende more then once. Because, you see, when I hear that its telling me that they are trying to "get" me to feel a certain way so THEY can feel better about the situation. Its not about how I feel at all...its about them. Again,that ole myth about adoption being about the child is blown out of the water.

How about examining some of the things that are told to us

"be thankful you were not aborted" I addressed that one above.
"Be thankful you had good parents" I am thankful I had good parents....but it is not going to change my need to search, one does not = the other.

" you could have been starving on the streets" We all could have been stqrving on the streets and as janey can attest to...it is something to be grateful for that we are not...but agin that doesn't mean an adoptee can't be sad about losing orginal families and culture.

There is gratefulness then there is forced fed gratefulness and thats the differnce. To see the trigger from others...well, I just don't get it. Is it that moral hand over the adoptees head again...HOW COULD YOU feel such and such about your own birth. Just look at how bad you could have had it....

I could say...hmmm....I am not grateful because I could have been adopted into a richer family, or bmom should have at least stayed with me instead of running off to cali to find her man,(my birthfather) not left me in CC and ran the risk of having abandonment charges againt her, talked to her mother about letting me in the house( I wasn't allowed...not good enough..I was a newborn) but I chose to attempt some understanding about MY circumstanses, MY existence and the out come of MY life.

Then get told I should be grateful..because me being grateful makes it easier for all the other players to deal with their hand in the whole game of MY life.

So sorry, I am NOT grateful I had to endure what I did until I was fineally adopted.....

Ceatally, I am very sorry you were beat you should not have been and you should not have to feel grateful that you were not beat every day..but again, I have seen this before. An adoptee tells their real feelings and others chime in on how they are grateful for their lives even in the worst of situaions.. not adoption related,what does that have to do with my feelings, does it nmake my little adoption insignicant, does it make me less of a person becuase i am not grateful for having to be adopted? So should I just shut up and let people tell me how to feel(because it makes them feel better)..and they had it worse?

EDited to add

Raven.again..thanks for attempting to understand.....

[paigeturner]

Originally Posted by dpen6

cetally, paige turner and any other person that is upset over some adoptee's feelings ..well..its something that we have had to deal with that many of you don't understand. The "being grateful" thing is a trigger to you?????

Dpen6, I'm not nor have I ever been upset over an adoptee's feelings. I was being snarky over the idea of NEEDING to be grateful over something that someone has no control over and I was being facetious about the idea that GOD decided. Now that I read it over again, I can forget snarky...I was snotty. And that wasn't my intention.

Again, I would never be "upset" over someone else's feelings.

[BrockBaby]

UGH..I had such a nice response going on...and I hit something and all of a sudden I was back on the thread! Oh well..I am grateful that I have a mind that can remember where I was going with my thoughts and try to recreate them!!!

As I was saying...

This thread made my head spin. I had so many thoughts and feelings as I was reading through the posts. I agree that the issue is not in being "grateful" for what we have in our life, but that people expect you to be grateful for what they think you should be grateful for. That is NOT their place. Each person has a choice in what they are grateful for in their life. And I am a person who IS grateful for the things in her life. That is not to say that someone else should tell me WHAT to be grateful for. There's no issue for me in people being grateful...the issue is in telling me what to be grateful for. And it goes the other way as well...I don't want someone telling me I shouldn't feel grateful for what I feel grateful for. I have been told that I should NOT feel grateful for being adopted. Well, I am. I am grateful that I had parents who adopted me. My parents didn't steal, beg, or manipulate to "get" me...but they were available to become my parents when I was in need of a home. Am I grateful that I "needed" a home...not in particular, but to be honest I am glad (not grateful) that my bmom did not raise me. Because when we enter her into the equation...things start to really get triggered for me. My bmom is the one that told me that I needed to honor her, because had it not been for her, I would not be here. I calmly said that God is the author of life, but that her choices did indeed lead to my being born. She told me, and had told me MANY times...well the doctors wanted me to get an abortion...but it was too late..sigh (meaning she sighed). Welll I had enough of hearing about how much I owed her because she gave me life, and said..so if you had known sooner that you were pregant that you would have had an abortion. And she had the audacity to say...hmmmm let me think about this...hmmmm, probably. Seriously!?! Who says that to the person they are talking about!? MY bmom, that's who. And this is just a TINY bit of the way she is to me...she kept telling me that she wanted to slap me, stuff like that. But I should be grateful that she wanted to meet me...that she gave me the time of day..RIGHT?? NOPE...that is why I will NEVER tell another person WHAT or WHO to be grateful for in their lives. We each have the RIGHT to choose what, who and when we want to be grateful to and for!

I agree with what someone was saying when they said that when people say that we should feel grateful to be born, and not aborted, is like saying we were somehow not as "worthy" to be born....that we were somehow "lucky" to be given the opportunity to live and therefore have a "being grateful debt" that we must pay. I am grateful that I have my life...but not because I could have been aborted (which I really could have had my bmom known earlier that she was prego with me) but because I love my life and I live a life of gratitude.....but don't you tell me what to be grateful for, I can decide that on my own thank you..and I won't tell you what to be grateful for, or that you even have to be grateful for anything!

[ripples]

Originally Posted by dpen6

they are trying to "get" me to feel a certain way so THEY can feel better about the situation. Its not about how I feel at all...its about them.

Well said, dpen6!

Hey all you champions of how others 'should' feel: Imagine a slightly different context - a dance hall. Someone gets you to dance with him/her - you have no say in whether you do or don't dance with that person. You're just assigned to dance with that person. You may have had fun, or your feet may have been stepped on. At the end of it, that someone says to you, "You should feel grateful that I asked you to dance, otherwise you would have just been left there on that bench all night."

Or perhaps someone brings you over for dinner. Again, you have no say in the matter - you're just placed at their dinner table. It's a delicious meal. Or maybe it's a meal that makes you feel downright ill. During the meal the host says, "You should feel grateful for this dinner, otherwise you could have gone hungry tonight."

Or imagine someone telling you, "You should be grateful that your employer gave you a job, otherwise you'd be a beggar".

How would you feel? Grateful??? While you may, in fact, do feel grateful, IMO such comments of "you should feel..." sound incredibly insensitive and even smack of power/guilt tripping.

[kakuehl]

There is always a problem when we use the words should and ought. They are judgmental words that basically say a particular behavior or feeling is the right one. (Ever notice how shoulds are usually aimed at someone else.)

I personally am grateful that my bson has chosen to allow me in his life and I have the opportunity to know him and watch his children grow up. Would you tell me I should be grateful? I am whether you think I should be or not. I appreciate the fact that he has a choice to have a relationship with me or not and that he has chosen to allow me into his life. I would however probably resent it if you told me I should be grateful.

[BethVA62]

Paige - I love your snotty snarkiness.


I did something funny last week. When talking to several of my friends and family, talking about kids, and raising kids and whenever the oppurtunity struck I'd say something like:

Wow, I know your dad was rough on you, but you should be grateful you were born and not aborted.

I asked a couple of them if they were adopted - they said no, and I said oh you should be grateful you weren't aborted.

I'm sorry your childhood wasn't the best, I wish you could have been adopted too so you could be grateful for life and your parents like I am.

My tough adult daughter, who is the snarkiest ever, and probably even more sarcastic than me, was complaining about something I didn't do for her as a teen that she thought I should have. I said, attempting to keep a stragiht face, be grateful I gave you life, be grateful I didnt' abort you or put you up for adoption, you ungrateful little thing.
I got the look LOL the same look I make when i hear the same crap.

Every chance I got I said something like that, to those that could take it.

It was the greatest thing to see "that dumbfounded expression" like I usually have on someone elses face.

Try it, it's funny, and it's no different than what a lot of people do to adoptees.

At a get together one of my friends moms was there, she had 4 of her 6 adult kids there, and as they joked around with her (teased her and picked on her - with great love) she said, all of you ungrateful lil ****s should be grateful they didn't have that little white pill back in my day or half of you wouldn't be here! I thought that was the funniest thing, especially when I saw that several in the crowd had "that look"