[Aussie-Chris]

I know this is random, but I have this magical song playing in my head, the link is below.

YouTube - Underworld Crocodile

[Lynard1210]

I am grateful I was born . . . and i credit that to God - not my birthmom. Abortion was illegal at the time but she could have decided to get an illegal abortion . . .considering she now claims i was the product of date rape - that is very real possibility. She said to me one day when discussing abortion politically that I should be happy she didn't abort me. I felt like telilng her, she should be happy i don't come to her state and slap her upside the head. Her mom could have aborted her but since her parents were married and wonderful and mine weren't married and my birth father was somebody she didn't love, I should be thankful to her for not killing me. Maybe I should . . who knows . . . . but that doesn't change my political position that women should have access to safe, early term abortion. I would not have my daughter if she were aborted - thank God she wasn't. Thank God . . . . not the human being who carried her.

[lovemy2boys]

Gratitude is one of those funny words...isn't it?

At times, it's something that we all could/should feel - but it's not something we should be TOLD to feel...

And I think therein lies the crux of the issue.

I am grateful every day that I am the mother of my boys...but when I'm told that I 'should' be grateful that I am their mom...well, that's when steam comes from my ears.

NO ONE needs to be told how they 'should' feel. UGH...

[shadow riderer]

[quote=Lynard1210]I am grateful I was born . . . and i credit that to God - not my birthmom."

I think you said it all. Isn't being told that we adoptees should be greatful for not being aborted a little like being told that we were insignificant and unworthy of life, so we should be grateful to our birthmothers for deciding that we,insignificant and unworthy things, could live? If God decided we were worthy enough to be conceived/created, even under unpleasant conditions, who are birthmothers to say it was their decision as to whether we lived or not? Isn't saying to an adoptee that they should be greatful they weren't aborted a little like telling them their birthmother is God?

I was my Bmother's first pregnancy. Abortions were illegal. She felt like she had no choice, so she placed me for adoption. Years later, married with two other children, and in a troubled marriage, she became pregnant again. She says her husband, now ex, forced her to have an abortion. She had no choice? It's not my place to judge, but I have to wonder how someone "forces" a woman, who placed a child for adoption and had two others she raised, to have an abortion? Thankfully, she has never said to me, "I could have had an abortion." IMO, placing a child and having an abortion were her "choices", even if she felt like she had no choice. I didn't ask to be conceived. I didn't ask to be born and placed for adoption. My 1/2 sib didn't ask to be conceived, nor did he/she ask to be aborted. God decided we should be created and granted life, not my Bmother. My bmother decided to terminate my 1/2 sibs life , not God. If I owe gratitude to anyone for my life, I think it is God, not my birthmother.

In my way of thinking, my birthparents did not grant me life. God granted me life through my birthparents.

[Lynard1210]

Thanks Shadow . . .your post helped me tremendously . . .i was so taken aback my birthmother's comment that I wasn't sure if I was off base somehow for the way I feel. I have talked to so many adoptees who have a desire to tell their birth mother "Thank you" but I've never felt that way. And after speaking to her, i feel even less like saying thank you, except to say thank you for not raising me! She was a college graduate, from an upper middle class family, age 23 who gave me away because she wanted to meet her dream man. I don't blame her - it was the 60s and her mother pressured her. She did meet her current husband just 6 months after my relinquishment. She had two more children as well but is currently still married after 40 years. She is very narcissistic and I'm having a hard time keeping the relationship up because it is all about her. I feel responsible to continue the relationship because I found her. I'm still working this through.

But thank you again for your post.

[txrnr]

Lynard1210... I also would say thank you for giving me up, and I don't intend that cruelly. (actually, I would never say it, but that has always been what I am thankful for) My bmom was young (as were many) and in that day and age, I think it would have been hard for either one of us to thrive. Of course I could be wrong, but I've had a great life, and I've always thought it started with her, and her decison to let me go.

I truly never would say, "thanks for giving me up", but I do understand the sentiment and have never heard another adoptee put it that way.

[Lynard1210]

Originally Posted by lovemy2boys

Gratitude is one of those funny words...isn't it?

NO ONE needs to be told how they 'should' feel. UGH...

Yes! That is probably what really stuck it to me!! Our relationship was moving along pretty nice and then all of a sudden . . .I'm supposed to be grateful she didn't abort me came out of her mouth and suddenly, i wasn't feeling the love that she expected. Ever since meeting my birth mother, I have been feeling very grateful that I had the family i did, imperfect as they were, grateful that i met my husband, grateful that i have the kids i have. None of that would have been possible if not for the initial decision to relinquish me . . .however, i'm still not grateful to my birthmom for signing those papers. It just feels wrong to me somehow to be ok with it 100% in my heart - she never held me, she was old enough to parent me and my grandmother didn't want me. I can't say thank you no matter how much gratitude is in my heart. Maybe some day . . . .

[Lynard1210]

Originally Posted by dpen6

Raven and everyone else!,

I think most of you know my attiudes on being grateful. I think you are one hundrend perscetn right when you said its when ANYONE is told " YOU should feel grateful" for living, breathing, having shelter or food ect. While it Its the need to make someone feel indeptness towards you..its a power thing. It also smacks of huge manipulation.

Many of us DO feel grateful that our lives panned out the way they did, I am very grateful that i was adopted into the family I was...but I am NOT grateful for the need to be placed for adoption in the first place.

You totally understand what I'm saying . . . .i'm a person who has a ton of gratitude in general especially for things that have not befallen me . . . but being grateful that my mom signed the papers? Sorry . . can't wrap my head around that one.

[shadow riderer]

I wonder what kind of response we would get if we, adoptees, told a non-adoptee, "You should be greatful you weren't aborted?" Can you just imagine the look we would get in return? Is it any wonder we, adoptees, have issues of feeling rejected, unwanted, unworthy, when that is exactly what clueless people are saying when they say such idiotic things to us? I mean, what do people think of mothers, who tell their raised children, "I could have had an abortion." Seriously, don't they think of them as bad mothers? Honestly, how could they say such a thing to their babies? So why is it different for adoptees? If we should be grateful for not being aborted, shouldn't all children be grateful to their mothers for not aborting them? The next time an adoptee is told, "You should be grateful you weren't aborted.", or "a birthmothers says to her relinquished child, "I could have had an abortion.", I think we should reply, to whomever, "Are "you" grateful "you" weren't aborted?"



[quote=Lynard1210]Thanks Shadow . . .your post helped me tremendously . . .i was so taken aback my birthmother's comment that I wasn't sure if I was off base somehow for the way I feel. I have talked to so many adoptees who have a desire to tell their birth mother "Thank you" but I've never felt that way. And after speaking to her, i feel even less like saying thank you, except to say thank you for not raising me!"

After very difficult reunions with both bio parents and finally finding all the missing pieces of my life, I have come to several conclusions for myself. First, because of the choices my bio parents each made for themselves, and a very hard fact to face, was that on the day I was born, not a sole on this earth was happy to see me come into the world. It was a very sad day for my Bmom. My Bfather had not taken responsibility from the start. There was no adoptive family waiting to take me home. I'm not saying this to feel sorry for myself. It would be a sad thing for any child. It's a fact of my life...just the way it was. This is why I have a hard time with feeling a need to thank my birth parents for anything. They were not teenagers, They were young adults. They were imature and irresponsible. . They, unfortunately, haven't changed much

My adoptive parents were not looking to adopt when they received a call from the agency about a baby girl, who needed a home. The story my Amom tells is that the second my Adad walked in the room where I was laying, he turned to the SW and said, not even inquiring with my Amom, "Start the paperwork. She's going home with us." Though I am truly grateful to my adoptive parents for many, many things, I am not grateful to them for adopting, or, as implied when adoptees are told they should be greatful for being adopted, "saving" me from the otherwise horrid life I might have lived had they not adopted me. again, I am greatful to God for placing me in the famly of my Aparents.

When I look at my bio parents and their relationships with the children they raised, when I look at my bio siblings and see how they struggle in their own lives, when I look at my Aparents and the relationships I had with them, though not perfect, when I look at my own life and how blessed I am because of the way they raised me, oh, yeah, I think I got the better end of the deal. For that I am greatful to both sets of my parents, bio and adoptive, but most especially God for the life he gave me.


"She is very narcissistic and I'm having a hard time keeping the relationship up because it is all about her. I feel responsible to continue the relationship because I found her. I'm still working this through."

I understand feeling obligated because you search. Both of my bio parents seemed to be under the impression that our reunion was all about them. Sometimes it has felt like they think they were doing me some sort of favor by reuniting with me. Even after all that has happened, to the point of me all but completely ending the relationships, they still don't understand that I don't have to do this. I leave the door open because I hope they will want to be a part of my life and will want me to be a part of theirs. It is, however, a two way street, something else neither of them have caught on to yet. As much as it is different from any other relationship you will ever have, it is the same in terms of respect and consideration. IMO, the bottom line: you don't "owe" your birthmother anything other than the same respect and common consideration you would give any human being.

IMO, reunion is a gift to both bio parents and their relinqueshed children. It is an opportunity to heal one's self. It is an opportunity all should be, uhm, greatful for. It's too bad, more times than not, people don't get that part of it.


"But thank you again for your post."
Glad it helped. Hang in there. It's a long difficult journey, but worth it in the long run. I have some terrific extended bio family. I am extremely close to my bio sis. I am her Matron of Honor in her pending wedding, and having a blast helping her plan. I wouldn't trade any of it for the world, even if my relationships with my bio parents aren't what I had hoped for.

[cetalley]

There are many "funny"words...I guess one could say gratitude is that. I suppose my thoughts on being grateful, are of many, but I do not have time to define and dissect them either. One comes to mind opposite of grateful, some might say..If one we love passes away...then should I not feel sorrow? Or should I go into dissecting it...Why would I feel sorrow/ After all GOD(I do love how GOD is the all when used in disecting)gave them life. we should then smile,laugh, and be happy this person who dies...just as well could have been murdered! They could have been raped,stabbed,beaten, set ablaze...So should I not feel sorrow? This thread has always rubbed me the wrong way....I was deleting it each day. I would like to think each of us are grateful for being alive...WHO THE HELL CARES IF YOU DO NOT (OR INSIST ) WISH TO BE GRATEFUL TO YOUR MOMS(I for one am). I am also grateful to my higher power(GOD). Hell I was beaten every other day growing up...but I am GRATEFUL, it could have been EVERY DAY! Remember I am still grateful to her! I guess before I start some stupid riot over this word(GRATITUDE)...I will stop this nonsense and go back to deleting it daily. It is such a small word, that ,obviously, has many being caught with a crawl up their britches! Enough about gratitude. Just be firggin grateful, you are you....there are TOO MANY OTHERS WHO HAVE IT WORSE! If you are my twins and you are reading this...I hope you are grateful...for many things....but PLEASE...PLEASE, PLEASE,by no means feel gratitude to me, and for goodness sake DO NOT DISSECT THE WORD!

[RavenSong]

Whoa, Cetalley, what is it about this thread that is triggering you so much? If people want to define and dissect what gratitude means to them, what's the problem?

There are many threads on these message boards that spend a lot of time "dissecting" words, feelings, experiences. Just because you're grateful that you were only beaten up every other day while growing up doesn't mean that another person would feel the same way.

I always think it's a good thing when people spend time in examining words and language, to really understand what we mean when we're conversing with each other. Words are important...they shape our understanding of the world.

[Dickons]

This is truly a word that has different meanings to different people in different contexts...

I am grateful to my adopted parents...
I am grateful to be alive...
I am grateful that I have a loving husband...my animal friends...my human friends...
I am not grateful for the concept/intention of adoption as adoption means both loss and gain...

Kind regards,
Dickons

[BethVA62]

This thread of being grateful and positive that we weren't aborted, but adopted instead seems to be very triggereing to many for obvious reasons

including the fact that

politics and emotions don't mix so well.

This thread, being grateful that we weren't aborted, grateful to be adopted instead - is purely a political statement, a statement and arguement to aid in adoption advertising and pro-life support.

Wouldn't the adoption agencies be thrilled if Roe vsWade was overturned, business would be booming! once again!

We are are asked for positive adoption stories.

I see the adoption part of my separation as being positive - I have positive relationships with adopted family, I was able to adapt and integrate into their family, there is love and it's very likely it will last forever. It's easy to make that part positive, but only because I got lucky and got understanding and loving parents. Just because you were adopted doesn't always mean you will get suitable parents or wish that you weren't aborted instead.

So I am not sure, according to this thread, if my story is truely positive. I think not. So why am I posting here, right?

"The purpose of this project is not to advocate adoption over parenting, but rather, adoption over abortion! It is, of course, normal for most birthparents to wish they hadn’t been put into the position to choose adoption; however, there was a reason adoption was the choice over abortion, and we’d like to hear your stories about why you made that choice."

This paragraph..... oh boy.... I choose life over death usually, but boy oh boy

#1, my mother is highly offended and triggered, like many, she never even considered abortion, had nothing to do with the "choice" to relinquish me.

#2, A pregnant female chooses between abortion and continuing the pregnancy. If she chose adoption at or before 3 months pregnant... I hope no one would support her in that decision unless she has already been deemed unfit to raise a child.

Certainly she could consider adoption at that point, but deciding on adoption at that point would be an uninformed or possibly coerced decision.

I am against pregnant mothers deciding 100% on adoption until she has had the baby, has had time to actually see what it would feel like to live without her baby in her arms. Anything less can be and has been so traumatic to the mothers, hopeful adopted families and especially the babies when it so often doesn't "work out".

A mother ultimately chooses between raising a born child and relinquishing a born child to adoption. Can you relinquish an unborn child legally?

#3 - um because my mother didn't choose abortion, I should be grateful for being adopted? I think all of us should be grateful we were born, has nothing to do with where we are raised.

If you ask me, they are just looking for stories, in a tricky way, to substanciate their adoption is for the best pitch.
A couple of billion of our tax dollars are spent each year to promote adoption..........and this is one of the ways they choose to do it.

Just my opinion, one I will probably get tossed for

[BethVA62]

I've heard many say that they really didn't have a real "choice' in regards to adoption or abortion, regardless of the decade.

I understand, i heard this lately and seems to be a good way to put it, to me.

"A signed "voluntary" relinquishment paper is no more voluntary than a signed tax return"

[Janeytwo]

On Roe - You know if there is one thing I absolutely hate about it. That would have to be how people always start out trying to debate it intelligently and then you watch from the sideslines as it morphs into a "Crips v. Bloods" debacle. Personally, I'd rather cut off my own foot with a dull knife than get into a "discussion" about it.

On the gratitude thing.....First of all, this is the adoptee forum. And they have to have a place to work out their stuff.

No. I myself don't particularly understand how because I'm a birthmom I might be lumped in with someone who says to their kid "Be thankful you weren't aborted." The day I say that to any of my children is the day they take me to the home, because I've lost my friggin mind and need a nice quiet place to rest which offers conveniently located bathrooms.

And (also IMO) Telling someone to be thankful they weren't aborted is about on par with someone sticking a gun in my mouth and then asking me to thank them for not pulling the trigger.

That said.....

On the OP who originally started this thread - I've had my druthers. I personally think that they chose this subject deliberately just to cause dissention. People do that sometimes because it makes them feel important. They say something that they know is controversial and offensive and then sit back and wait for everyone to come howling in defending their particular positions.

Why give someone that kind of power? They're not going to listen to your point of view or be swayed by it, and pardon me, but who gives a rat's a**? Yeah, you can try politely to state the con argument. But after that? You're wasting your breath.

It's their opinion. The old adage applies, "opinions are like you-know-whats....everyone has one."

I don't have to buy into it.

Respectfully,