[chynnal]

Grateful? I don't feel grateful either. Also, I was not a gift! I think that is ridiculous to say that. So I should be a grateful gift?

I think the adopted child is the gift to the A-Parents not the other way around.

Maybe I should take the advice and not venture into the forum section of this website either. I come here for other reasons not connected to the forum. But, topics sometimes peak my interest.

I think adoption has become a full-on business with only elitists able to join the club. I am not against it so please try to hold back in responding negatively. I just think that big reform needs to happen. Big reform.

We aren't shopping for new shoes you know. It is a child that will grow up to be an adult.

Sincerley,
C. Luschen

[cetalley]

I am a Firstmom, and the LAST thing and only thing I do not seek from my twin sons is gratitude. I am in high hopes they had ALL the components to become happy ,healthy ,loving ,caring adults. Some if not most Firstparents, did what we had to do, I did not get pregnant on the sole purpose to JUST relinquish a child! I , like many others was not given a CHOICE, just as my twin sons were not given a CHOICE. I was too naive to think of ANY reprocussions this could or would cause them by being adopted. My choice was to either sign papers or be threatened into losing my 6 yr old at the time...so I HAD to sign. This coecion was after I was gifted by (ADOPTION AGENCY) RENT, LUNCHES, DINNERS, and occasionally a gift or two for my 6 yr old. I had all my Dr. appts. taken care of and the hospital bill paid by these SUB-HUMAN people. Yes I had always known I would relinquish, fully ,and intentionally, my choice! UNTIL...I gave birth and fell in love with them. Alas I was then threatened to lose ALL 3 of my sons, if I did not sign. Back to the topic...NO I do not want gratitude from them! I wish only to stop my deep gutteral ache I have carried now for 22 yrs. I NEED to know that since I was not allowed to change my mind and KEEP my precious sons,that they are well , happy ,thriving , loving, and compassionate young men. Nothing more and nothing less. I will be as much as a part of their lives , or no part of their lives ...after I have finally found them. I just NEED to know thats all. Of course as thier firstmom, I love them enough to let them decide whether or not I am ALLOWED to or DESERVE to know these things. I will stop my sermon now...I wish all of us in the triad...PEACE, HEALTH, COMPASSION, AND ALL THE LOVE THEIR HEARTS CAN HOLD!

[winter444]

Grateful!!! heck no!!!

[RavenSong]

As a birthmom, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer on this question of gratitude or gratefulness. Different people approach life in different ways, from different perspectives.

Some people are angry with their birthmothers for placing them for adoption; some people aren't angry about it. I've met people who wished their birthmothers had had abortions. And I've met people who are glad they were brought into the world.

I think everybody has their own unique feelings, emotions, and experiences. Who's to say one group is right and another group is wrong? It is what it is what it is...

[kakuehl]

Raven, I've been thinking about this thread and the whole subject of gratitude. I think that, as is so often the case, the problem lies in the fact that some people think other people should feel grateful.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by kakuehl

Raven, I've been thinking about this thread and the whole subject of gratitude. I think that, as is so often the case, the problem lies in the fact that some people think other people should feel grateful.

Kathy, I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head. I think that's right were the problem lies...people judging other people for their feelings or lack of feelings. No one has the right to make that kind of a judgment on another human being, IMHO.

I think that another part of the problem may lie in how each of us define gratitude or being grateful. I know some people think that gratitude implies some degree of indebtedness, but that's not how I view it. To me, personally, gratitude is more of an attitude than an emotion.

If you haven't figured out by now, I've spent a significant amount of my adulthood in 12-Step recovery groups. I think that's where I learned about having "an attitude of gratitude". My sponsor drummed that one into me...

It's a hard concept sometimes, this being grateful to someone who has caused us pain or harm. For example, I certainly am not grateful to my mom for physically and emotionally abusing me as a child. But I respect her for making the difficult decision she made, when she found out at the age of 16 that she was going to have a baby. I'm grateful to her for all the wonderful things she emphasized to me when I was growing up, like my love of music and books, my love of the sea and small animals. She taught me the value of keeping my word, and even taught me to stand up for myself in the face of adversity.

I guess my point in sharing this with you is I believe there is always something good you can find in another member of the human race, even people who have done us harm. This is a conclusion I've come to in my own life...it's what works best for me. The strange thing, though, is if anybody else demanded that I feel grateful to my mom, I would be really incensed.

I have found for myself that when I don't practice this "attitude of gratitude", my life quickly gets out of kilter. I become filled with anger and bitterness and pain. I don't like to experience those feelings, so I'm safer if I practice gratitude for the day. I hope that makes some sense, lol...

[Janeytwo]

Hey All! Hey Kathy and Raven!! :-)

IMHO - Any communiction of any kind that begins with such black-and-white statements of "You ought to" is going to get a negative reaction from everyone else. It sounds like a lecture.

LOL! I am remembering when mom would put a jar of beets out at the dinner table and dish some onto each of our plates. Yuch!!!

First of all, beets are evil and should be blasted from the earth with laser beams!! LOL!!

I'd sit there scowling at the evil beets and mom would say "Eat your beets! You ought to be grateful you have them!! There are people out there who'd give their right arm for those beets!"

I can distinctly remembering wanting to say, "If I give them one of my arms can I not eat these beets?" Of course I didn't have the guts to say that. One thing you don't want to do is incur the wrath of a just-off-the-boat British woman. Take my word for it.

As for gratitude, I am grateful for my life and for the people who color my world. But if others don't want to be that way, well.......their loss in my book.

Hugs to everybody!!! :-)

[JustPeachy]

First of all, beets are evil and should be blasted from the earth with laser beams!! LOL!!

I'd sit there scowling at the evil beets and mom would say "Eat your beets! You ought to be grateful you have them!! There are people out there who'd give their right arm for those beets!"

Haha, Janey, don't blast those beets 'cause I LOVE THEM!!!!! I've even canned my own (can I send you some?? )

But back to the point, I think it IS important to feel grateful for things in your life, but it has to be on your own terms and is up to the individual to determine what those things are. I think if we don't see the good in our lives and find appreciation in those things, it's all too easy to wallow in the negative, and this is just no good. But it can really come across offensively when someone else says "well YOU should be GRATEFUL for ___________!!" It's just insensitive and I think there are more tactful ways to get across to someone that there may be positive things in their life situation without demanding or commanding them to just snap out of it and be happy, you know?

And I used to get that same lecture from my mom about finishing my food. "There are starving children in China!" she would tell me. I remember even from a very young age thinking "well why can't you send it to them, then?" Made perfect sense to me. I don't want it, they need it, hey, it's a win-win!

[Janeytwo]

Hey JustPeachy! (I will never get tired of typing your screenname. I think it is wonderful!)

I think it IS important to feel grateful for things in your life, but it has to be on your own terms and is up to the individual to determine what those things are. I think if we don't see the good in our lives and find appreciation in those things, it's all too easy to wallow in the negative, and this is just no good.

Amen!! You're so right!! Gratitude is important. I can remember someone once saying to me, "Be grateful for the thing you didn't get". There's so many terrible things that befall others. Life sends some curveballs. I'll just be thankful that I found a mitt, you know?

From Pudd'nhead Wilson by Mark Twain: If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.

Haha, Janey, don't blast those beets 'cause I LOVE THEM!!!!! I've even canned my own

Sighing and shaking my head sadly........ Just when you think you know a person you discover that their mind has been taken over by the evil beet creatures from planet Beetahcuss.

It is a tragic thing and I hear tell it is happening forum-wide. I believe that Kathy has also fallen victim to the evil aliens. What oh what can be done?

Fellow beet haters! Run....run for your lives!!! Before the evil beet creatures force you to eat Borscht!!

[dpen6]

Raven and everyone else!,

I think most of you know my attiudes on being grateful. I think you are one hundrend perscetn right when you said its when ANYONE is told " YOU should feel grateful" for living, breathing, having shelter or food ect. While it may be true, I am capable of deciding what I am grateful for or not grateful for. I have found that often when a person says something like that to another. OK...a birth, adoptive mother to a child it is usually to get that "child" to feel a certian way towards them. " You should be thankful you were not aborted"( we all should be), "you should be thankful your not begging on the streets"" as if ANYONE desrves that. Its the need to make someone feel indeptness towards you..its a power thing. And it causes the young child, teen and yes some adults to feel less then and not good enough. It also smacks of huge manipulation. Then of course there is the adoptees that DON'T and won"t ever feel grateful and they just may have good reason.

Many of us DO feel grateful that our lives panned out the way they did, I am very grateful that i was adopted into the family I was...but I am NOT grateful for the need to be placed for adoption in the first place. I think most people would feel that way if they really thought about it. Even folks that were brought up in abusive homes that often say they wished they were adopted are not really saying they wishe they were adopted, they wished their families didn't abuse them...the abuse came first, they don't wish for the intial need to be adopted.

[shadow riderer]

Janey wrote: "First of all, beets are evil and should be blasted from the earth with laser beams!! LOL!!"

No...No...No...Beets no evil...Green peas evil...bad green peas..horrible green peas...unless...they are covered in tartar sauce.

Attitude of grattitude? Whish I'd known about that when mom made me eat the liver and onions she cooked once a month, because we needed our iron. She gave me the "poor children in China" story too, but I don't know? I had my doubts that those children would be all that happy to eat liver and onions or peas any more than I was. I think they would much rather have hot dogs and mac-n-chees too.


I am grateful for the life God has given me. Hard as it is sometimes, when I look around me, I'd much rather be me than anyone else I know. Right now, I most grateful for chocolate covered cherries and cheesecake. OH, and Janey, pickled beets are the best. (wink)

[ripples]

Here's an excerpt from the first major study of Korean adoptees (about 400) published in 2000 by the Evan B Donaldson Institute,

"Between one quarter and one third of the participants in each group stated that they had been abused. The reality of abuse by adoptive parents led many participants to question how adoptive parents were selected and whether the selection process has changed over time...

Gratitude was another pervasive theme. Some adoptees felt that their adoptive parents expected them to be grateful for being adopted, and they expressed ambivalence about these expectations. Most of the participants shared that they were grateful for being adopted, but realized that it came at a high price of losing their culture, country, and parts of their identity. One participant recounted her mother saying, "Do you know where you would be now if we had not done this? You could be a prostitute. Your brother might be a beggar..." Others recalled comments by other adults referring to them as a "charity mission." Some felt that such comments produced a will to be the best, but others felt the comments made them rebel. Commenting on the theme of gratitude, some facilitators noted that most of the adoptees in their groups believed that their lives had been saved through adoption, but they struggled with how much gratitude was "enough."

Maybe instead some adoptive parents should feel grateful to adoptees for being saved from the stigma of childlessness and infertility ;-)

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by ripples

Maybe instead some adoptive parents should feel grateful to adoptees for being saved from the stigma of childlessness and infertility ;-)

This is great!!!

I don't think adoptees, or anyone for that matter, should be expected to be automatically grateful for being adopted (or born). Children have no say in the matter. It is adults who made the decision to parent.... and often for selfish reasons. Gratitude is something that is earned. I am grateful for my parents, not for giving birth to me, but because they are good people who have loved me deeply.

[lovemy2boys]

Originally Posted by ripples

Maybe instead some adoptive parents should feel grateful to adoptees for being saved from the stigma of childlessness and infertility ;-)

Wow...Just when I thought it was safe once again to venture into a different forum.

I come here to learn. I try my best with my kids...not because they are adopted, not because I feel they will eventually "owe" me a debt of gratitude, but because I love them and want them to feel that love. I hope I don't ever make my kids feel like I expect this from them....and I hope to GOD that their firstparents wouldn't think that it was "great" if they made the comment that I should be grateful from being saved from the "stigma" of childessness and infertility.

All I wanted was to be a mom. That's it. No alterior motive.

[kakuehl]

Hi lovemy2boys,
Don't forget to read the "some" in her statement. I may be way off base, but I thought she was directing that at those aparents who feel and TELL their children how grateful they should be because they were adopted and "saved" from whatever birth situation they were in. From everything I've ever seen you write, I can't imagine you would do that to your children!

I've said in other places that one reason I placed was because I wanted D to have parents who were ready to be parents, and wanted to be parents. I've never expected them to be grateful to me!