[Janeytwo]

Hey Brockbaby!

And while you are there, could you pick me up a cup of coffee...I'm being too lazy to go make my own pot!

((( Brockbaby ))) I'd buy you a cup of coffee anytime! As a matter of fact, Lovemy2Boys and I are meeting for coffee on Tuesday. Anyone who wants to join us is welcome to come - PM for details if you live in the Detroit area. We'd love to have you!!!

And if you're from out of State - come on up!! I got lots of futons! Would love to share a visit!!!

I am not coming back.....because I respect myself to not subject myself to her abuse and behavior. I know this has NOTHING to do with being grateful...but it REALLY hit me today as I was reading the posts.

I understand completely. It is okay you know, Brockbaby, to say "that's it! I'm done!" Sometimes, that's the only avenue people leave us. And that's about them.

As I've told my daughters whom I've raised (and would tell my son and daughter too if I met them)........ "This is your life and you don't have to justify it to anyone but yourself and your God. And if other people don't get that...screw 'em!"

Much hugs your way today!



P.S. "Shadow" - thanks for the kudos!! Love ya!

[BethVA62]

"Although empathy and sympathy are often used interchangeably, a subtle variation in ordinary usage can be detected. To empathize is to respond to another's perceived emotional state by experiencing feelings of a similar sort.[2]
Sympathy not only includes empathizing (but not always), but also entails having a positive regard or a non- fleeting concern for the other person."

Aussie-Chris I'm kinda confused, and am more than willing to further discuss in peace, casue maybe I missed something or it has just gone over my head, or maybe it's the language, since we all do speak a different one. (thanks for reminding me of that one Kathy) But I can tell what I said has upset you some.

I wasn't aware that I had told anyone, Cetalley in particular, that I knew exactley how she feels, or told anyone how I think they should feel.

Because I used the word sympathy?

Or did the word "honey" cause the patronizing feeling? (**** this habitual southern language!)

I am honestly concerned with cetalley, I can see by her posts insisting on how I/we should feel, the feeling of gratitude I should have, and the anger shared becasue I/we do not feel the way she might like us to... or especially her own sons to feel.... Her requests of the adoptees on this thread are much deeper than caring about how we, or I myself actually feel. I was attempting to help her see that in a couple of ways - for her sake, so she can see why she is having such an angry frustrated reaction to the feelings many of us have expressed here.
I was attempting to help, not harm.
doesn't seem to have worked so well tho :-/
Beth

[BethVA62]

"If at First You Don't Succeed to Bring Down Your BChild, Try Try Again"
"101 Things Adoptees Can Do to Ward Off Grateful Thoughts"


You are killin me
Let me know when i can buy that one!
I bet the pics are the best part!

[BethVA62]

Originally Posted by BrockBaby

kathy...I guess if I were to sum up what it is I realized today, I am responsible for my own life (that's not new, I've always taken responsibility for my life..usually too much responsibility..I take on everyone else's responsibility as well) but the truth is I am NOT responsible for my bmom's life. I do not have to hold onto a false sense of responsibility anymore. Even though she isn't IN my life, I was still allowing her opinions of me to play in my head and heart...and today I realized this, and I am swimming parallel now, not letting that riptide to take me any further out from the person I am suppose to be....Make sense????

The thing is, I don't blame my bmom...but I think I have taken on a lot of blame from her, and I've allowed it to make me question myself. Do I allow the "grateful" card to play into some of this?? I am still examining some of the "riptides" that have pulled me.....

No matter what I had or didn't have, no matter what I have or don't have, no matter what I want or don't want - no matter what I will or won't have -

I am my only possiblity of becoming myself.

Easy to say, hard to do sometimes, especially if the kinks haven't been unraveled!

Congrats on unraveling that one (((Brock)))

[Aussie-Chris]

However good your intentions are Beth, your sympathy ought to be based on things you can really understand. I feel sad for some of the people on here too, but unless I have had the same experience as them I wouldn't dare post replys pretending to know what they are going through.

Originally Posted by einigkeit

I am most certainly NOT grateful that my bmom chose to give birth to me rather than do the 'right' thing when there is a question of incest and terminate. Actually, I have days when I resent her decision to give me this life.

Originally Posted by BethVA62

einigkeit
I know it sucks feeling that way, I've spent many days stuck with that feeling too, and it really sucks. And it's tuff to get rid of that self torture, it's not hurting anyone but you. But it seemed to pass for me in a couple of days even if I don't try to hard. It still comes back on bad days. I hate seeing anyone feeling this way, I'm sorry einigkeit I know it hurts.

I hope you can find some way today to love yourself more, screw the rest of it. Spend some time doing something you love, if you can't find it in you today to love yourself more.
hang in there
Beth

[txrnr]

Aussie Chris... I don't see the problem with anything Beth said. She said she had the same feelings that the poster expressed. Many come here for support, and to know they aren't alone. If the poster isn't complaining, why make something of it.

She wasn't making broad, sweeping statements. Now that can get you in trouble.

[BrockBaby]

Janey...I would LOVE to come up for some coffee!! I am afraid to tell you though, I am a Buckeye, and it is against our nature to embrace Michigan!!! But I can overlook that fact, because you have a kind heart!!! And really, we only dislike Michigan during football season!!!

Originally Posted by janeytwo

This is your life and you don't have to justify it to anyone but yourself and your God

I am coming to terms with this one. I always felt that my life was in part, to make everyone feel okay with theirs, but I am shedding that thinking and embracing the real me. It has been a journey, and thanks to a wonderful counselor (who is an awesome Christian) I am stepping out of the shadows of thinking I have to live my life according to what others think and stepping into the light that Christ has soooo much for me to do!!! (I already knew that, but did not realize how much I put on hold or didn't explore for fear of what others may think). I'm learning to soar as the real Lori!!!
((Janey)) thanks for your wisdom and kind words, and perhaps one of these days I'll make it up to..dare I say it...for some coffee!!!

Beth...as soon as Shadow and I publish our books we will send you copies!!! Thanks for the support! (not about the books, just in general..lol)


Now, Aussie, I am not sure why you took what Beth said the way you did, but I never saw her being patronizing to anyone. It is very presumptuous of you to think that you know what she has gone through in her life, as to whether she can understand or not what someone else has been through. Yes, it's true that no two situations or the way a person feels about it are the same, but we can understand that people feel crappy about things. I can understand what it means to be adopted, but that is not to say that I have the same feelings as another adoptee, yet at the same time that doesn't negate the fact that I can understand. Now if she were telliing people I know how you feel and you are wrong..that's different. She didn't do that. And besides, who has the right to say who can feel sympathy for someone else!?!?

Originally Posted by Aussie-Chris

However good your intentions are Beth, your sympathy ought to be based on things you can really understand

I may send a sympathy card to someone who has lost a child, but according to your line of thinking, I don't have that right, because I myself have not lost a child to death!?!?!? See..doesn't make sense! Anyway.....

I hope everyone has a wonderful day!! And for those of you in the frigid areas..stay warm!!!!

[BethVA62]

Originally Posted by Aussie-Chris

However good your intentions are Beth, your sympathy ought to be based on things you can really understand. I feel sad for some of the people on here too, but unless I have had the same experience as them I wouldn't dare post replys pretending to know what they are going through.

Aussie, honey, I do have sympathy for anyone who has had a hard time of things, even if I haven't experienced it myself. I know what it is like to loose a loved one, to feel pain, to have sad, angry, or even happy feelings.

I am not afraid to offer those that speak up some type of comfort and support, and if they don't like my style, they are certainly free to tell me to STFU and of course I would.

You can tell me that I OUGHT not to share my sympathy with others in a public support forum, and that is fine
(can you see how this is exactly like telling me I OUGHT to be grateful for being adopted? Or I ought to feel or behave like you think I should, not like I do?)

But you really can't tell me what I should feel, or ought to do.
Sure you can tell me, but
That's my choice, not yours.

I quit pretending anything years ago.
You are right I do not know what it is like to be beaten by your biological or step father every other day.
But I do know what it is like to have my *** beat every friggin day in hopes that I would die, by someone who was supposed to love me and take care of me.

I do not know what it feels like to wish my mother had made the right choice and aborted me due to incest.
But I do know what it feels like to wish my mother had made the right choice and aborted me.

I will always speak up when I hear this, I have deep personal experiences that have shown me what the next step from that feeling CAN be.
I have lost eight adoptee friends to suicide, eight close up personal friends, at all different ages. This was one of the last thoughts they all shared with me, two of them had it in their note, and stated in their note that they were taking things into their own hands by doing what their mother should have done in the first place. I have considered it myself in the past, until I saw how things turned out for my friends, now I am furious at them all, and will probably never be able to forgive or have sympathy for any of them.

I will take my chances of sounding stupid in this case or even pissing people off, it is a huge trigger for me. I don't want to ever see it happen again to anyone. You can only share sympathy and comfort with people that are living. So now maybe you can understand or can sympathize with why I said what I did.

Nobody is exactly the same or has the exact same feelings even in an exact same situation.
Doesn't mean we can't share similar feelings and attempt to comfort/support each other, none of us are perfect, and we are all in different places in our journey, isn't that why most of us are here?

Why are you really upset with me Aussie?

[txrnr]

Brockbaby... I grew up in Ohio, and saying Buckeyes don't like folks from Michigan simply isn't true. That's when the hatred is strongest... but come on... how many times has someone flew by you on the interstate and you just knew it was a Michigan driver.

Of course, Janey is most likely the most considerate driver in the world, and Michigan holds her hostage hoping that the world will believe everyone from Michigan is like her.

[lovemy2boys]

Well, as Janey's partner in crime, I wish I could come up with a scathing remark about how Michiganders are NOT bad drivers...but I'd be lying. I live in fear as I drive along the expressway. Shoot - I live in fear as I back out of my DRIVEWAY!

As for the U of M vs. Buckeye thing, well, I never really knew there was that much of a rivalry (college football isn't really that high on my list of important things, much to the dismay of my hubby)...anyway, a few weeks back, we were talking about our kids, their future, our hopes and dreams, etc...I was saying that although I would NEVER push anything on my kids, I secretly hope one of the boys would go to Notre Dame. My DH was like "Yeah - that would be really amazing...I'd love that". I said "Or U of M or State would be ok too" and he said "Yeah - I'd be totally up for that".

THEN I said, "Ohio State isn't that far either."

The look of shock and disgust on his face still sends shivers down my spine.

SEE YA TOMORROW JANEY!!!

[kakuehl]

Originally Posted by txrnr

Brockbaby... I grew up in Ohio, and saying Buckeyes don't like folks from Michigan simply isn't true. That's when the hatred is strongest... but come on... how many times has someone flew by you on the interstate and you just knew it was a Michigan driver.

Of course, Janey is most likely the most considerate driver in the world, and Michigan holds her hostage hoping that the world will believe everyone from Michigan is like her.

Knowing Janey, I can pretty much guarantee that she will never fly by you on the interstate... if she does, she'd better be on her way to my place in PA!

[BrockBaby]

Well I hate to tell you Kathy, but in my part of Ohio, it's not the Michigan folks that we say are bad drives..it's those drivers from PA!!! LOL

Brockbaby... I grew up in Ohio, and saying Buckeyes don't like folks from Michigan simply isn't true. That's when the hatred is strongest...

It is only during football season that I said that I don't embrace michigan folk....

All kidding aside, WHAT ABOUT THOSE STEELERS...NOW THAT IS SOMETHING TO BE GRATEFL ABOUT!!!!!!!!

Okay, seriously now, I soooo appreciate everyone here and the insight that I gain about myself through listening and learning from the good people that come here!!!!

[kakuehl]

Brock: Pfft! (I'll have you know I wreck my own cars only!!!)

[BrockBaby]

LOL Kathy!!! Well I've been in two accidents....and not one of them was my fault!!!

I do cheer for a PA team though...sooooo you know I can't be too bad!!!

[txrnr]

Adoption and grateful, that's not offensive, but grateful and the steelers in the same sentence!!! How do you report a post???

Actually, I was kicked out of OH for not being a Buckey fan, so I never have any hatred for the Michigan folks.