[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by BrockBaby

Yes janny it does go both ways. (I was just being "one sided" because I was replying to cnb)

Glad that you are finding support here though, we are all in this together so to speak!

Hi Brockbaby,
sorry if my post came across as perhaps implying that you were "one sided" . I didn't mean to convey that impression at all, but I was just posting in case adoptees wondered if bmom's ever feel the same? When I read posts and realise that others in the triad are experiencing the same, it helps, it really helps that its just not me. As you say and I wholeheartedly agree, we are all in this together and I was just trying to add my 5 cents worth! Sorry if I gave the wrong impression!!

(My feelings seem pretty raw and strong at the minute, I don't know if other bmom's go through this - I'm 19 months into reunion and yet my feelings seem volcanic at times. Is it anger? Frustration? Reunion I think is frustrating for all concerned, but I apologise in advance for the strength of my emotions. I just want to get in the car and drive up and see my son!!!! aghhhhh... but I can't, I have to suppress so much, I think thats why I'm like a coiled spring.....).

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by wilted rose

as always the emotional support shines through...As Brock so eloquently put it, the challenge with reunion is often aligning our emotional timelines. Sometimes that's possible, however sometimes it isn't.

Only you know what your emotional limit is, as I have always said 'never invest more in a relationship, than you can afford to give away'. In other words you and only you can decide what this relationship brings to your emotional table, if it is keeping you up at night, causing you to be emotionally unavailable to your current important relationships, and you know at the end of the day you are placing all of your emotional power on a situation that may remain the same. As I see it you have three choices, keep trudging along and hope the tide turns, walk away, or my favorite...redefine your expectation of the relationship.

I come from a very large bfamily and did this with many of the relationships early in reunion when I found myself overwhelmed. sit down and get a piece of paper out, two columns:

What I dreamed a relationship with my bmother would be like: a) b) c) etc.

What I can live with in terms of a relationship with my bmother a) b) c) etc.

This quickly outlined right in front of me in black and white what I was expecting, and what I could cope with; honestly for me, I was surprised at some of my answers...
It's worth a try,
Hugs,
Rose

Hi Rose,
You can bet your bottom $ (where DOES that expression come from?) that when you get on the forums, SOMEONE manages to say something that hits the nail right on the head and today, for me Rose, it is you. I am so out of sorts lately and yet all that you have written above, well it couldn't have been more than what I needed to hear.

I think the expression "aligning the emotional timelines" is spot on. I'm trying to work out what for me, my emotional time limit is. I like your idea to write down the comparisons between the dream of what the relationship would be like compared to the reality check of what it is turning out to be. I think someone once said to me on a post, that perhaps I need to mourn the relationship that I thought I would get against the relationship as it is. (if that makes sense??)

I think what you have said is exactly right, I need to redefine my expectations of the relationship. I need to change direction to expect what my son is able to give, rather than the dream of what I'd expected. I will try it. Great idea Rose.

[kakuehl]

Janny, sometimes I feel like a broken record (or maybe a tape loop!). We sometimes have to mourn the loss of our expectations of our child or parent almost as if it's a death before we can realistically come to terms with the actual relationship. I think the most postive thing for me was that I had no expectation of what a relationship with D would be like -- in fact, I never expected to have a relationship! It frees me to just enjoy the relationship that is growing. (On the other hand, I didn't expect the waves of sadness that occasionally hit me as I watch his children grow!)

I hope Rose's idea does help.

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by kakuehl

Janny, sometimes I feel like a broken record (or maybe a tape loop!). We sometimes have to mourn the loss of our expectations of our child or parent almost as if it's a death before we can realistically come to terms with the actual relationship. I think the most postive thing for me was that I had no expectation of what a relationship with D would be like -- in fact, I never expected to have a relationship! It frees me to just enjoy the relationship that is growing. (On the other hand, I didn't expect the waves of sadness that occasionally hit me as I watch his children grow!)

I hope Rose's idea does help.

Hi K, I hope that feeling like a broken record or a tape loop doesn't mean that you are fedup of repeating yourself! I feel as though I am being told off!!!

Reunion for me has been tough. My son has been above normal tough in his emotional responses and I have put up with a LOT to cope with him. Expectations? Yes. I hope to be able to get past the endless frustration of yearning to hear from him and get him through his own confusion and his endless pullbacks that is common from adoptees that puzzle him. Why would that not be normal when I have had to put up with so much &&&& from him???

I would love to SEE him again, but he is emotionally explosive (like me his bmom) and not able to respond appropriately to most scenarios in his life be it at home with his family or work that he can't keep. My expectations are hung up to dry because of the childhood I missed with him and his defense mechanisms that are holding him back. Whilst I understand it, its been tough, it really has, but then comes the frustrating bit... which I think most bmom's feel - is the lack of response, the getting nowhere feeling, the wanting the pace to move on some. That is where the expectations are. I would like to get past the occasional emails and even more occasional phone call. I would like to be able to shop with him, share a meal, go out for a day, cook for him, let him cook for me (he's good at it), sit down and watch a movie. At the moment, its all long distance stuff and not very satisfying at times.

I, like most mom's would like to be able to do the small stuff without so much heaviness behind it - the complications of how he deals with life, his inability to get further than his own instincts take him and they are poor masters in his case. To have gone through so much in 19 months of reunion, I need to feel some progress, so if thats expectation, then yes I have some.

Its great that you feel that you have no expectation of what a relationship could be like with your child or that you ever expected to have one. I never thought my son would look for me, so I was absolutely amazed when he did find me, but I feel you are almost dismissive by your own approach to life. Is your reunion good? I came across a bmom at an annual meeting and she was saying to me "don't look for what isn't there". In her case, her reunion was straightforward, made us all feel inadequate of sorts, but she was missing the point that just because it was working for her with such ease that it's not necessarily like that with others? Is it a possibility that yours is like that? do you have a relatively straightforward reunion? Mine has been a nightmare!!!

I feel some sort of expectations are reasonable .... expected even. K - you are coming across as almost "i'm alright Jack" and I'm sure you don't mean to, but I feel some expectation is perfectly normal. What is the point of investing emotionally if nothing is expected? I think that is true of both sides - adoptee and bmother.

When our emotions are hung up to dry and we await contact from our children when they are ready, when they say they are going to phone... and they don't (and I have no experience in raising kids, so my best friend assures me this is perfectly normal). When you send a gift and you hope for some acknowledgement, when you bust a gut trying to work out their defense mechanisms and put so much effort into understanding this reunion business, and nearly send yourself into a downward spiral as the Verrier chapters send you into your own spasm of grief.... then yes, there are expectations.

Have I misunderstood your post? because it has made me feel a bit uncomfortable as already described.

[Scarlet Moon 13]

Originally Posted by cnb1099

As an adoptee who is about 6 months into reunion I thought it would be interesting to hear from others in reunion. My question is this..if you could give just one piece of advice to those who are awaiting reunion or first face to face, something you wish someone would have said to you before your rollercoaster ride, what would it be?

Mine is this: You will really have to learn and comprehend the concept of patience. I thought having 2 small children that I knew all about being patient. Then I was reunited and found out that I had none whatsoever. There is no timeframe on a reunion, and everything happens at its own pace and it is different for everyone. So slowly, very slowly for me, I am coming to terms with the hurry up and wait game. But in the long run it the relationship we will build will be worth the wait.

I would love to hear from all sides of the triad on this!

I decided up front I would be honest about fears, hurts.. no tears until off the phone or alone.

But if I was scared to say something, I told my son I was scared, or asked permission.

We were very lucky he and I, he said it was alright to give advice. Though I was slow to do so and careful how I said things.

I do skirt around some issues and ask questions backwards when I have doubts about something.

What I mean by that. My son 43, spanks his boys.
Why? In my personal experience most people who have never been spanked do not spank their children.

In our first conversation he says to me, "my dad (adad) was an alcoholic who beat my mom but never hit me."
How many abusers never touch other members of the family? Not many.
So the first time I saw him spank his boys, I knew that he had to have been spanked. Just the way he did it.

I was a spanked child, black and blue by my mother. Yes, I did spank my kids, but I never bruised them.

Flash forward 10 years into our union. He is still spanking his boys, now 12 & 10.

I said, you need to stop hitting the boys, they are too old. It won't be that long when the older boy will turn on you. He said he worries about that a little.
My response, a asking but not asking question.
Do you think you hit the boys becasue your dad hit you, do you think? He said, maybe.
How old were you that last time your dad hit you? His response, I don't want to go into that.

He did not deny it, he didn't say it never happened.
He didn't go all, how can you think that.


I wager 15, that was when he went to live with his amom again.

We sometimes won't talk about the bad things no matter how much we want to know.
Or even the good things.

The point, and there is one, sometimes you wait a long time for information. Sometimes that is good, if some had admitted that his adad beat him I might not have handled it well in the being of the reunion.

After all, the adoptive parents were supposed to be better then me, weren't they?

It turns out, the only thing better about them, they had more money.
They weren't any better at parenting then I was.

I married at 17 and had two more children by 19. So, yes,. I can say without a shadow of doubt, they were no better parents then I was.

At least, I had age as an excuse for the stupid things I did to my kids, the aparents were in their late 30s, they had no excuse at all.

[kakuehl]

Hi K, I hope that feeling like a broken record or a tape loop doesn't mean that you are fedup of repeating yourself! I feel as though I am being told off!!!

Reunion for me has been tough. My son has been above normal tough in his emotional responses and I have put up with a LOT to cope with him. Expectations? Yes. I hope to be able to get past the endless frustration of yearning to hear from him and get him through his own confusion and his endless pullbacks that is common from adoptees that puzzle him. Why would that not be normal when I have had to put up with so much &&&& from him???

I would love to SEE him again, but he is emotionally explosive (like me his bmom) and not able to respond appropriately to most scenarios in his life be it at home with his family or work that he can't keep. My expectations are hung up to dry because of the childhood I missed with him and his defense mechanisms that are holding him back. Whilst I understand it, its been tough, it really has, but then comes the frustrating bit... which I think most bmom's feel - is the lack of response, the getting nowhere feeling, the wanting the pace to move on some. That is where the expectations are. I would like to get past the occasional emails and even more occasional phone call. I would like to be able to shop with him, share a meal, go out for a day, cook for him, let him cook for me (he's good at it), sit down and watch a movie. At the moment, its all long distance stuff and not very satisfying at times.

Ah Janny, I'm so sorry you heard what I wrote as telling you off. All I meant by being a broken record was that I seem not to have much new to say and fear I'm not being at all helpful which is my goal. I truly believe that our expectations do take on a life of their own and sometimes get in the way of our relationships. I do find myself mourning my expectations of various relationships in my life. (Right now that focus of pain in my own life is the congregations I serve. I know that my expectations of them as the people of God and theirs of me as pastor are getting in the way of our actual ministry together.) BTW, all of us have and need to have expectations! Our problem occurs when there's a disconnect between our desires/needs and the reality.

I was simply trying to I share where I am in my relationship with D. I do feel that I have been incredibly blessed. I could, btw, drive myself nuts trying to figure out what he really thinks or feels about me. All our time together has been spent with lots of family around: his and/or mine. We've had brief periods of time when others are elsewhere and I treasure those. The likelihood of us spending any extended time (like an hour) alone is slim to none. At the same time, I have learned to enjoy what we do have. (Do I sometimes want more? You bet! I feel that way about the two adult children I raised as well.)

Again... Janny, I hear your struggles and frustrations and wish I had help for you. I am not in your situation and can never truly say I understand, because I'm not you! I do hear your pain, and that last thing I want to do is to add to it.

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by kakuehl

Ah Janny, I'm so sorry you heard what I wrote as telling you off. All I meant by being a broken record was that I seem not to have much new to say and fear I'm not being at all helpful which is my goal. I truly believe that our expectations do take on a life of their own and sometimes get in the way of our relationships. I do find myself mourning my expectations of various relationships in my life.

Again... Janny, I hear your struggles and frustrations and wish I had help for you. I am not in your situation and can never truly say I understand, because I'm not you! I do hear your pain, and that last thing I want to do is to add to it.

Dear Kakhuel,
thanks for clearing that up, because I sometimes wonder how I perceive things and whether it is that that is driving me up the creek with my son, father, significant others etc so I feel its always best to ask. I think certain expressions can remind me of what people have said in the past, and your 'old record' was used in a way of "do I have to tell you again?" so apologies for misunderstanding you.

As to my situation, I'm finding that my feelings are so overwhelmingly angry (and forgive me if I came across like that to you). I think Keds went through/is going through something similar and to cope with it, I find that I'm spending hours and hours just thinking. With no tv, no radio, nothing, just me alone with me and I have found it therapeutic .. of sorts.

One thing I do have difficulty with is trying to remember, even a few years back. Its as if my memory is in permanent shutdown. An event, comes, happens, was pleasant, archived, finished, period. Does anyone else experience this?

I know now that I am on government benefits due to poor health and no longer can afford them, that I DID have holidays, but can I remember them? NO! Am I hoping that my son can be more involved in my life, and fulfil something? Yes! Will it happen? Groan, who knows???? I'm pushing for a bruising, but I need to have my needs fulfilled as well, he's had his fulfilled for a massive amount of time in this reunion and now I'm making demands on him, sort of.

I did something crazy lately, I asked him for a present. I just felt I HAD to have something that he'd given me, goodness knows why, it was SO STRONG the feeling, the expectation that I'm going to lose him at any minute. I also felt this reunion has been one way for way too long and I'm increasingly exasperated. He's emailed me to say that he was in the car his friend crashed and then nil response to my frantic emails asking what happened. 2½ weeks later, he decides to phone me, then I got to hear what happened.

I've recently told him off for doing that and for something else too, so maybe I'm more of a mother than I think????? (single and becoming a parent at the age of 49, now 51, is NOT easy! LOL). I'm certainly in parent mode at the minute, where I expect him to hate me and switch off in a kind of "huh" mood, but I don't care, he needs to hear it.

Anyway, I'm warbling on, thanks for your PM. I'm glad the air is cleared so to speak. Thanks again for your replies and for listening.

(((hugs)))
Jannyroo

[BrockBaby]

Janny....i have been meaning to tell you... Betch your bottom dollar comes from the song Tomorrow, in the movie Annie. I know that movie inside out..guess I could always relate to that little red headed orphan who wanted to know her family!

[ssshhh]

Originally Posted by Mil

Hi cnb - I know a year and a half seems like a long time, but in all honesty, I think as far as reunions goes, your reunion is still in it's infancy. You're probably still tiptoeing around each other, being on your best behavior. I remember having a knot in my stomach everytime I saw or talked to my son for several years. And that's in a very good and open reunion. There's just so many overwhelming emotions going on and so many adjustments that you can hardly believe you're actually going to survive it all! There were times I was sure I was going to have a heart attack from all the stress. Or at the very least an ulcer, lol. My life was almost surreal. I could hardly believe it was MY LIFE!

THANK YOU! I am glad I stayed on here late tonight and came across this thread. I am meeting my birth daughter in a little over a week face to face.
I had a couple sessions with a counselor who knew about adoptions but it is not the same as someone with the experience.
I made a phone call to my birth daughter today because of tip toeing and not knowing what to do about a situation. It was only because of people on this board that I called (different thread). I did not even think she would ask if I wanted to meet!
I have the added support of her (a) parents who are behind this reunion.
My counselor suggested that I NOT read some of the books mentioned, so I do not have any in put but just wanted to say thank you again for this thread. I will probably be reading it every night for the next week!

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by ssshhh

My counselor suggested that I NOT read some of the books mentioned, so I do not have any in put but just wanted to say thank you again for this thread. I will probably be reading it every night for the next week!

I agree with your counsellor, some of the books mentioned on the forums are pretty traumatic and can send you into tailspin. The Adoption Reunion Survival Guide however, by Julie Bailey & Lynn Giddens is very gentle and is well worth a read. Ask your counsellor if she has come across it. It will also prepare you for any 'pullbacks' as they are called after your first F2F so that you don't get confused and hurt if it happens early on (I'm only speaking from my experience, I wished I'd come across this book earlier on, it was sooooo gentle and helpful on my emotions).

Some on this forum we have decided to call pullbacks "emotional re-evaluation" or something similar! but its a big time so be prepared, but as your counsellor says and I can confirm, the Verrier books are traumatising and you need some reunion time under your belt before they are approached. I think I was about a year into reunion before I read them.

Hugs and have a wonderful reunion!!!! I bet you are over the moon! well done!!!!
Jannyroo

[cnb1099]

Shhhhh congrats on your reunion and sending lots of hugs that it is everything that you hoped for!

[Hope1977]

Know that you won't be prepared.
There's no way to prepare yourself for the tragedy, or negative things that may arise...My advice would be to allow yourself to feel them. Grieve, work through them, and know, no one's really ever prepared.
My bmom's a homeless drug addict, and my bdad died of an overdose. How can anyone possible prepare for that?
I wasn't , but it's ok because I'm letting myself grieve.