[HappyMomAnna]

Adoptees this question is being asked because there seems to be a debate with some Adoptive and Foster parents that has become rather heated and I personally feel that your opinion is the most important WE can request.

The situation is:

Two older sisters have been placed in one Foster Home and thier baby brother was placed into another. The children have had weekly visits and aside from a little excited--behaviors following the visists no one has said there is any safety problems...the sisters have not been acting out toward each other or toward the brother.

The baby has lived with his Foster Family for a little less then 2-years and there is a healthy attachment with his Foster Family.

The caseworkers have now changed the plan for all three children and asked that they all be placed together for Adoption as a siblng group with one family.

The Foster Family with the little brother does NOT want to adopt his siters and does not really want the baby to have contact with his sisters should they be allowed to adopt only him. However, the Foster Family is slightly considering some contact but not with a great deal of conviction.

How do you think you would feel if you were the baby brother and you grew up to find out that your Adoptive family made a choice to adopt only you and allow your big sisters to be adopted by another family?

Do you think that a 2-year old should remain with this Foster Family simply because he has attached to the parents?

Do you feel that the sibling bond is more important then the attachment with the Foster Family at this point in time?

What if this family does maintain visists with the biological sisters? Do you feel this would be better for the little brother or not?

How would you feel if you were one of the sisters?

[eek40]

Your post brings many good questions for processing. Personally I can say that if I was the sisters I would be upset if my brother was separated from me and I was not allowed to see him. But then you get into the fact that the little guy has been with one family his whole life, its not really fair for him to be separated from the only family he knows just because the fparents wont adopt the other children. I wonder though what is the solution? This is a tough one, I need to think longer on it. I am a CASA volunteer and my first thoughts here are for the children, but what? I am not sure yet.
Aimee

[Jensboys]

Or how about asking the question, how would you feel if your "parents" (foster or adoptive or birth) chose to let you go in order to keep you with siblings with whom you had no relationship? Would it be worth the price to you?


Anna -- How are you going to explain to your son or daughter why you choose to "split up their sib group" by not adopting their baby brother? Should you of let them go so that they could of been adopted by a family willing to take 3? Why didnt you? They hadnt been with you that long ... in "theory" they should of attached quite handily to a new adoptive home, that is if you had done a good job of attaching with them so they could learn to attach to someone else? Because remember, "attachment" isnt a good enough reason to keep them in your home. Your two had issues with attachment ... so those issues could of been handled in your home or in another home, with their baby brother too. What about now that you have dealt with those attachment issues GREATLY ... would you let them go now to attach to their baby brother and new parents? Could you? Why not? Why isnt it best for them, but best for that child?

You obviously feel strongly that your reasons were big enough to justify splitting a sibling group up - and big enough to explain to your daughter why you made that choice. So, why condem others?

There are NO easy answers here, maybe even no "right" answers. We adopted a sib group of two ... who are part of a sib group of 4. An older brother adopted by his grandparents (different than my boys) and a younger sister being raised by their birth mom. I know the grief they experienced by being removed from their foster parents was so incredibly deep ... I wouldnt wish that on ANY child.

[eek40]

Jensboys,
Anna is not the family in question. There is another family on the boards debating this issue. This is just a different way of discussing the issues about siblings staying together. I am almost certain that Anna's personal family has nothing to do with this post
Aimee

[lucyjoy]

There is also no guarantee that the children would really end up being adopted together. Quite possibly(and this happened to my kids before I got part of the group)the three children get placed together and behaviors show up and prove to be too much and they get split anyway. That baby is with the only family it has ever known. It is loved, taken care of, and not abused. He needs to stay there. I would hope in time the parents could feel comfortable allowing sibling visits, but he is still better off. What he'll understand is that since he was a few days old he was with a family who loves him.

[Jensboys]

eek - Yes I know this isnt about Anna's family but I am also subscribing to the other thread and it is firmly about Anna's idea that the sibs shouldnt be split and that the bond between the child and his foster parents is replaceable. Yet, Anna too chose to split up siblings.

I agree with Lucy on this. We are both several years further into parenting with attachment issues that Anna is yet (although I know Anna is an experienced parent and I value her advice on "Most" issues greatly).

Why risk it? Adoption stats that I have read all bode MUCH better for small sib group adoptions or single child adoptions than 3+ sib group adoptions (although extremely large sib groups do very well). Disruption rate and parental depression are EXPONENTIALLY greater when more than one older child is adopted at once. I know how much work it was to "attachment parent" two children actively grieving and still relatively young (3 and 4) ... The chances of a family being able to do it well with more than that ... more power to them but I think it is doubtful and in the end the child, again pays.

[eek40]

[quote]Originally posted by Jensboys
[b]eek - Yes I know this isnt about Anna's family but I am also subscribing to the other thread and it is firmly about Anna's idea that the sibs shouldnt be split and that the bond between the child and his foster parents is replaceable. Yet, Anna too chose to split up siblings.



Oopss sorry Jensboys This is sure a tough subject!
Aimee

[HappyMomAnna]

I can see how my situation will come up in this issue. And I do admit the explaining of not having a newborn brother placed with us will in fact be one of the hardest things I think I might ever have to do.

The situation I face is that my children did not meet and have yet to even be told about thier sibling. Had they I would have taken all three. Our situation was very different then the question I am asking in that our children have NO relationship with the new sibling.

And... Our daughter does have acting out issues. Had this been known prior to the adoption placement there is a very high chance she would have been placed away from her brother. It has been difficult as a mother to be careful that a little girl who is clearly sexualized does not stand over her brother while I change his diaper and I am sure the future will include some rules I wish I never had to make in order to protect the brother from her touching. If these facts had been known there would be a high possiblitiy that I would support her being in a home with no younger children including her sibling.

In fact, I wanted very much to also take the new baby--however there are too many very deep issues our daughter is dealing with. Actually none of which I can find a doctor willing to Dx attachment therapy for--Attachment does not appear to be her issuse. Sexually acting out and touching boys and men is her main problem and there is yet to be any source for her behavior we have no idea why she is able and often draws perfect circumsized penis's and her brother is not circumsized?

In our case we have to be very careful for HER safety and the safety of the sibling--to do this over I would have split them even with the other feelings she has about being part of the preganancy and delevery of her brother.

I do feel there are good reasons to split siblings..

Yes, there are some issues with the 'secutiry' of the attachment the baby is displying--however there are also Dx delays due to herion addiction at his birth. His developmental age is a full 10 months delayed and nero testing has yet to be comepleted.

The newborn was also born herion addicted and his case is considered even more serious. He was premature there are health problems and it is likely he will have ongiong issues. This was not the reason we passed we already were open to one baby with an unknown future. We simply felt along with the State that for all three children it was best the NEW unkown brother have 100% of the love and care an adoptive home would offer while we continued to work toward our two healing.

We also were permitted to request contact with the new babies family and have already had contact as parents. We do very much intend to have all three children unite at some point when everyone understands what has happened in their lives and why certain decisions have been made.

I really do not think my situation compairs to one where there are few if any known issues with the sisters...who have had visits and where everyone knows about each other.

Our daughter at this point if she were told about the new baby would very much want us to adopt him too...and I will have to answer to her for the decisions we have made.

The caseworker for the children has already made a page to add to her life book with pictures and a story as to why everyone decided the way we have....

Yes, I could have backed out and given my children to a new set of parents willing to adopt all three... But, no one ever asked me to do so--had I been asked I may have needed to come to a different decision.

Also my children were NOT placed as Foster Children so there was never any question in fact our daughter was introduced to us by her caseworker and she was told we were her Forever family--not temp or Foster therefore I think it is a little unfair to ask me to base my answers on my own situations which was very very different---had we been Foster parents a promise would not have been made to a 5-year old... so I think that really does make a difference....

Had my children still been in Foster Care then we would have adopted all three--in fact we originally wanted three--it took me 2-weeks of thinking and talking with the experts to go ahead an let the thrird baby be adopted by another family.

These situations are not the same.

I guess I must be wrong to believe that siblings should be placed together if possible and if safe?

[lucyjoy]

The girls in question do not want new mom and would likely make trouble for the baby. Just as you carefully weighed your reasoning, so has the other mom. Losing the only parent you've ever known to live with sisters that may or may not be healthy is not in this child's best interest. His attachment to his sisters is nowhere near the level of attachment to his parents, and they are his parents. At 13 months, he doesn't understand foster care, only beining loved.
Your situation doesn't sound all that different to me. Yes, your daughter has issues, so should your son go live with his brother?
Of course not, he's yours and attaching to you.
If the children had lived together, I would feel differently, but becuase they haven't, in my opinion, the baby is better left in the only family he knows. Why cause a break in that attachment?

[HappyMomAnna]

The info about the sister Not wanting to be adopted was posted an hour after I asked this question here and I agree does put a different spin on everything....I did however ask many times in pages before what other info could be used to determine a split was in the best interest and until an hour after I posted this thread my questions and others were never ansewerd.

Lucy--I have often thought that my son would be better off with his newborn brother---my goodness what fun it might be to be two boys a little over a year and a half apart in age.... But that was never a questions DHS asked me so I never had to make that decision. In truth however had the sate lagged just 6months longer in this case---If I had seen the things I see with our daughter as her Foster Mother--I very well may have let my son and his brother be adopted together....

I love my daughter more then I can even express--but it is very sad to delay potty training a little boy because his sister might get all 'worked' up if she were to be around and he needed to go in front of her..... It is not very fair to my little boy that his mother feels he is safest in his diaper and that she needs to look for some respite care for two-or three weeks in order to do the simply work of potty training....I do feel this is hurtful to my son but personally can see no solutions without sending his sister to visist grandma in Ill this summer....The good thing is that right now I don't think he is really ready to train so I am not feeling as bad as I feared I might---he is delayed and really not ready to train so hopefully the summer fixes this for everyone....

[riley6]

We knew about our kids' younger brother. They had all been living together when my kids came into fc. Their dad's gf got pregnant again after they were in fc. We saw that baby at court. We were willing to take those two boys if they came into fc. We would not have told our two that the other two were their siblings. If it came down to adoption, then we would have told them. By then the boys would have been with us at least a year. As it turned out, the gf had another baby. We just don't have room in our house or the time necessary to parent another three kids.

Anna, you could have taken the baby and not told M he's her bbrother until she was ready. (Not judging you for NOT taking him, just suggesting what might have been a possibility.)

[HappyMomAnna]

Anna, you could have taken the baby and not told M he's her bbrother until she was ready. (Not judging you for NOT taking him, just suggesting what might have been a possibility.)

That would have been dishonest.

The caseworker originally asked me why I was so concerned about finding the right words to tell our children about the baby he said I don't ever have to tell them---I think secrets are the worst poisen of all in a family and to me is will eventually come out I am sure.....

And with the issues we are trying to work through I would not take any new child into our home right now.... M and J need 100% of my attention and time and protection....the issues do not change because of who the birthparent is...our children need what they need and right now they need what we are giving them.

Besides in Oregon you are not permitted to have additional children placed for at least a year after pre-adoptive placements...not that our daughter would know that.

I am rather sad this turned into our discussion I was really wanting to hear how adoptees would feel about this because of my own situation--and because I think they are the ones who can most answer the question of what they believe about the sibling bond--I still hope to hear from adoptees on this issue not only regarding the other thread but, for my own info--so that my children will have a mother who is sensitive to their feelings.

[riley6]

Yes, it's dishonest, but sometimes to protect the kids, you have to withhold information until the appropriate time. In my kids' case, I wouldn't have told them for a number of reasons. 1) the babies would have been in visitation and I wouldn't want my kids to hear their bf's name mentioned (they totally fear him for what he did to them) 2) IF the babies had been reunited, it would have been too great of a loss for my kids 3)IF the babies had been reunited, it would have been a HUGE loss to THEM, to know their siblings got to stay with us, but they had to leave their siblings 4)I didn't want my kids to ever blame ME for making their baby brothers go back to what my kids had endured.

Our state also has a policy of not adopting for at least six months after finalizing. In my case I think it's stupid, bc we've already had our kids almost 3 yrs. BUT, we are allowed to foster! Crazy huh?

[dl]

In response to HappyMomAnna's original post of questions for adoptees:

How do you think you would feel if you were the baby brother and you grew up to find out that your Adoptive family made a choice to adopt only you and allow your big sisters to be adopted by another family?

IF, I had learned that my aparents HAD KNOWN and HAD DELIBERATELY chosen to keep me separated from my bsiblings, I would be very upset with my aparents and would feel very cheated. If I had learned that there was the opportunity for the three of us to have been raised together, or at the very least to have contact and contact had been denied, I would question those decisions. I would want a clear understanding, with legal documentation, how this decision was made, and how this was in my and my sisters best interest only, and not out of convenience for either my aparents or my sisters aparents.

Do you think that a 2-year old should remain with this Foster Family simply because he has attached to the parents?

IMO ~ No. (Explanation combined with the following question.)

Do you feel that the sibling bond is more important then the attachment with the Foster Family at this point in time?

IMO ~ yes. (Explanation combined with the previous question.)

I do not in any way minimize the attachment a 20 month old has formed with those that have cared for him on a daily basis for 17 months or the attachment for foster siblings. I was in six different care situations prior to adoption, the two longest being one foster home for 5 months and another for 7 months. It is reported that I especially bonded in these two homes quite well. When I was adopted, it is reported that I was a "little restless for a week" and then again, bonded and adjusted quite well. This was with aparents that I had only had a couple visits with, and an asibling that I only had one visit with prior to being placed in their home. Quite different than the recognition twice weekly visits with bsiblings have provided in this situation, IMO. Of course, I was 7 months younger than this child at the time of adoption.

What if this family does maintain visits with the biological sisters? Do you feel this would be better for the little brother or not?

At the very least, IMO, the visits should continue as they have been ~ 2 hours, twice a week. I don't understand why termination of sibling visits is even being considered.

How would you feel if you were one of the sisters?

If there was an actual opportunity for all three of us to have been raised together, I would be very upset that my little brother was deprived the opportunity to grow up with his sisters ~ and that his sisters were deprived the opportunity to grow up with their little brother.

As I stated, I am responding to these questions as an "adoptee" as HappyMomAnna requested. I am not a foster parent or a trained professional. Simply my opinions as an "adoptee".

[Gwen]

I just laugh at the stir this has caused!!!!! I AM THE FAMILY IN QUESTION!!!!!!!!
I have changed my mind about contact....He is staying here (without the girls) and just as an FYI ther has not been a 3 sibling adoption in 12 years in my county, and no gaurntee that it would happen
It is pretty amusing some else decided that they needed to validate the WAY they felt on the other board.........
Its done..................................