[CRAZY_WOMAN]

Originally Posted by dpen6

Iwould think they have to prove the the bmother was actually promised...legally...privacy..is there any document that says that? Because I have heard that its not true that they were not promised any such thing. The documents are the adoptees...now the weay this one went about itis totally wrong but the information conatained in those records is the adoptees and theadoptee should have full disclosure.

Either way I'm thinking the daughter would have been better off not getting the info.Now she know she was a product of rape and the mother loves her so much she now suing over it.This sounds like worse case scenario to me and all the more reason to make sure they personally go out to that person,Before they give info out.Unless it's better to find out your a product of rape,I personally wouldn't want to find out I was a product of rape.

[zxczxcasdasd]

I don't think anyone wants to find out they were a product of rape, but the flip side of that is being denied the right to know anything about the circumstances of your own birth, having no idea what it might be, and not having the right to decide for yourself whether you will be open to the answer, whatever it is. The fact that some will have sad information at the end of the line is not a reason to deny everyone, or anyone, the right to know their own origins.

Every open records state I am familiar with allows either party to file a contact veto and declare their intent to keep all their information sealed from the other party, and the state offered her personally the chance to do so.

As a caveat, I never agree with just showing up at someone's house and essentially physically and emotionally ambushing the other person. I wonder if the adoptee had pursued a more discreet and private way of attempting first contact, essentially giving her a second chance to declare her wish for no contact, whether the lawsuit would ever have happened.

[CRAZY_WOMAN]

Originally Posted by zxczxcasdasd

As a caveat, I never agree with just showing up at someone's house and essentially physically and emotionally ambushing the other person. I wonder if the adoptee had pursued a more discreet and private way of attempting first contact, essentially giving her a second chance to declare her wish for no contact, whether the lawsuit would ever have happened.

You don't think the rape victim wouldn't have been pissed off if she had writed or called first,Because I know I would have.Maybe thats the reason she couldn't deal with the letters in the first place.

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by dpen6

Iwould think they have to prove the the bmother was actually promised...legally...privacy..is there any document that says that?

No there is not. The thing is birthparents through the ages have been promised a lot of things... privacy, openness... neither are legally binding. It is adoption records that are closed, not relinquishment documents. If a baby is relinquished but never adopted the birth certificate and relinquishment papers are public record. How can anyone think that that is a guarantee of privacy?

What if the child IS adopted? Are the relinquishment papers still a part of public record? Just wondering b/c my dh went to the county he believed he was born in and they are saying they don't have the adoption records - another county does. So therefore, they don't have to release the documents they DO have. From the way the convo went, it sounds like they have the relinquishment documents. Are those then sealed once a child is officially adopted?

[Dickons]

Crazywoman,

Regardless of how my reunion went I am glad I know where I come from. The joy and the pain were and are worth it...until you have lived your life being the product of an annonymous union you cannot begin to understand.

Regards,
Dickons

[Dickons]

Originally Posted by bromanchik

No there is not. The thing is birthparents through the ages have been promised a lot of things... privacy, openness... neither are legally binding. It is adoption records that are closed, not relinquishment documents. If a baby is relinquished but never adopted the birth certificate and relinquishment papers are public record. How can anyone think that that is a guarantee of privacy?

Too true...

Kind regards,
Dickons

[CRAZY_WOMAN]

Originally Posted by Dickons

Crazywoman,

Regardless of how my reunion went I am glad I know where I come from. The joy and the pain were and are worth it...until you have lived your life being the product of an annonymous union you cannot begin to understand.

Regards,
Dickons

I would be suicidal and disgusted if I found out I was a product of rape.
Also I would be wishing that I never found something like this out and put my birth mom thru even more pain.

[crick]

Originally Posted by CRAZY_WOMAN

I would be suicidal and disgusted if I found out I was a product of rape.
Also I would be wishing that I never found something like this out and put my birth mom thru even more pain.

Maybe you would be disgusted but you know there are likely people on here who are indeed a product of rape and feel differently. Their lives are still worth every bit as anyone's regardless of how they were conceived..

[SoniaRose]

Crazywoman, I have to disagree. I was not the product of rape, but I have learned many horrible facts about my bparents: my bmom was very ill and on the verge of a physical breakdown when pregnant with me -- my non-id report actually stated that her doctor worried that she would die. My bfather was abusive and allegedly beat my bmom and her two children. He also was on the enemy side in WWII.

Sometimes I feel sad because I realize that my bmom's short life and the lives of my two half-sibs would have been better had I never been born, but I have to believe that I am here for a purpose. I have my own karmic destiny to fulfill. I need to make sure my life is worth something; I will not allow my bmom's sacrifice to be in vain!!!

All adoptees need to know from where they came. I understand how adoptive parents want to protect their children, but in reality I believe they are only protecting their own interests.

Sometimes the truth hurts, but I would rather face the truth than hide my head in the sand.

[loveajax]

I hate to be "PC," but is anyone else offended by the term "product of rape?" Because i am -- sorry! We're talking about a real live person here with real live feelings.

[RavenSong]

I spent a lot of time the other day on New Jersey's State Adoption Registry website (you can google it for the address - I don't have it right off.) Anyway, I can now see where her attorneys are coming from when they say that the state's website clearly states that if either party, birthparent or adoptee, does not agree in writing to the release of identifying information, then it will not be released. The only type of informaton that can be released without permission or consent, according to the N.J. Department of Children and Families, is non-identifying info.

It sounds to me like the state workers blew it on this one, taking into consideration they violated the official policy stated on their own website...

[crick]

Originally Posted by loveajax

I hate to be "PC," but is anyone else offended by the term "product of rape?" Because i am -- sorry! We're talking about a real live person here with real live feelings.

You are right...it DOES sound offensive when I think on it. I mean we don't say "product of adoption" or "product of one night stand with too much to drink" etc.

Sorry! I'll remember that next time!

[crick]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

I spent a lot of time the other day on New Jersey's State Adoption Registry website (you can google it for the address - I don't have it right off.) Anyway, I can now see where her attorneys are coming from when they say that the state's website clearly states that if either party, birthparent or adoptee, does not agree in writing to the release of identifying information, then it will not be released. The only type of informaton that can be released without permission or consent, according to the N.J. Department of Children and Families, is non-identifying info.

It sounds to me like the state workers blew it on this one, taking into consideration they violated the official policy stated on their own website...

Does sound like the workers blew it then. If that's written in black and white on the state website, I'm truly amazed they don't know it?? Interesting...

[loveajax]

No problem, Crick!! I am sure I have said it myself at some point-- for some reason, it just bothers me when I think about it!

Raven, that's interesting. I do feel really sad for her. On the other hand, I have learned that litigation rarely serves the purpose that it should (and I mean, isn't it going to traumatize her further?). And I guess I feel sad for the adoptee (whose "doorstep" arrival I completely disagree with, btw). It's a tough one for me. Also, I think these sort of extreme cases get distorted into making bad policy decisions...I am very much in favor of open records because I hate the way adoptees almost seem to be presumed to be stalkers (or worse!). Anyway, I feel for both of them I guess is my long winded response!

[RavenSong]

LoveAjax, I agree with you. Seems to me that the litigation process, along with all the publicity it's garnering, would be so traumatic in itself. (I'm speaking as a rape survivor on that one.) I think this whole situation, even after the breach in confidentiality, could have been (and should have been, IMO) handled so differently. It also sounds to me as if the birth mother never received adequate counseling and/or therapy following the rape. Most rape survivors I've known who've obtained counseling afterwards don't hide in the shadows anymore or hide what happened to them from other family members.

Crick, yep, this case is an interesting one. I just went and looked up the website address (felt a bit guilty about telling people to google it, lol). Here's the link: State of New Jersey | Department of Children and Families | Adoption Registry