[Oceans]

I think in reunion, it’s important to balance the needs of your family with the needs of your DD. Letting one or the other go is going to create terrific stress for you and you need to be taking care of yourself so that you can continue to take care of everyone else. You’re a mom so you already know that

I can totally see your husbands point. A family vacation is about the kids you are parenting and being able to spend time with them doing “fun stuff”. Secondly, it’s you about you and hubby re-connecting, relaxing etc. I’m not sure I would be too excited (if I were him) to throw in an unknown factor of an additional family member that the kids don’t know. I could probably get over that but then throw in another person (amom) who has made it clear she is not comfortable… Yeah, I don’t think I would want my kids exposed to that tension on vacation.

With that, I think I have more questions (sorry lol): How’s your DD doing with all of this? Does she know how uncomfortable her mom is? Was amom planning on joining her DD for the vacation visit?

- I just read your next post and let me say... OMGosh!!!! I can NOT imagine your shock!!! I have lots and lots of words about that but I think I will refrain... Oh my ((( Hugs)))

[bumblebeeskies]

Jennasmom,

I don't think you are doing anything wrong as some on here are trying to imply. Your daughter contacted you and has told you she wants a relationship. Obviously, this is not about you and having to have your way. The amom sounds like a horrible person. I was disgusted when I read that her amom had stated that she had been killed in a bike accident when she was 9. That is horrible and in my opinion, unforgivable.

I think people are forgetting that you totally gave into her amom, when you had your first meeting. I don't think that you wanting your young children to meet their sister in a comfortable environment, is you trying to call all the shots or using your daughter as a pawn. You and your husband are the ones raising your children and know what they would be comfortable with. DPen needs to remember that you have an autistic son. Social situations are particularly hard for children with autism. Perhaps DPen wants to volunteer to come "pick up the pieces", should your son have a horrible reaction?

I can't help but think her amom is gross. Her stating aloud that she doesn't want to share dd with you, wanting to call ALL the shots, pretending dd was dead, etc. The people on here who are suggesting that you may be part of the problem, need to read through your posts. This isn't about you getting your way, this is about an amom who is sadly portraying all of the adoptive parent stereotypes.

[Isabo]

Originally Posted by Jennasmom1990

Thank you Ocean. I am feeling a little under attack by dpen6. maybe she should read my other posts. I was not the one to make contact. In fact what I have not stated on here at all is when my DD was 9 I was sent a letter via a PI and told she was killed in a bicycle accident, so when that call came through it was a totla shock to all of us. even though my raised children knew I had they were NOT prepared for her to come out of the woodwork, so to speak. So with all that being said how could any claim that I am playing her for a pawn as well?

Wow. I cannot even imagine. I am SO sorry that you have had to endure that. You and your family have already had to grieve the loss of your daughter, not once but twice. Whoever sent that letter is truly evil. Maybe that person should be reminded that there is a such a thing as a legal claim for "intentional infliction of emotional distress ...". I'm not advocating a lawsuit, but it might make that person realize that they can't do evil things like this with impunity. Wow.

As far as my previous statement that this might not be a good time to pursue in person reunion - my son found me at 19 with the help of his amom. Once she found out that I was not a drug addicted, walking caricature of a biological mother, she wanted me gone. She couldn't handle a college educated (I have a Doctorate), professional woman with a good career. Anyway, she played all kinds of evil games (my stock fell from the "blessed angel who made them parents" to the "evil abandoner who had no right to care or love about the spawn of her womb"), and my son was not mature enough to deal with her antics. Amom has done so much damage to my son and to me. I would hate to see Amom hurt all of you too - not just your daughter but your entire family. I can completely understand your husband's need to protect his family from amom's manipulations.

Hugs to you,

[dpen6]

Doesn't anyone see what I am trying to say/ Isabo, you say that your son's realtiosnship was affected by his amother it affected both your realtionship with him and his realtionship with his amother. so where does tht leave him. With nothing,,,why because both of his mothers were unable to see it for what is was. A person who wa taken out of his bio family , put in another then fought over. so now he is left with nothing. GREAT!

As faras me not understanding about theraised children..of course I do. But the affect on raised children does not compare to what is going on with the adopted child. The raised children will only have one mother to deal with, the raised children don't have to deal with their mothers fighting over them. The raised children will alwys be confident of their real place in the family. The adopted child has lost their biological family. No matter what they can not regain what they have lost. their childhood waspainted buy the mothers in their lives when they were vunerable infants. Even if they do find biofamily childhood memroies are with another family. the adoptive family is what holds this childs memories, experiances and attitudes. That can never change no matter how much the iofamily wants them in their family. The very important building blocks of childhood is gone and never to b regained.

If in fact you want to protect your raised children(from waht?) then give your placed child a brreak to gain some maturity and confidence to make her own decsions.

If you don't want your vacation marred by this placed child then don't meet up with her. If she can not come to you for whatever reason, she is blamming her mother, maybe thats an excuse? The it will have to wait.

It doesn't matter who made the contact..she is still very young and the mature adults should be understanding that.

Its terrible that you were told she was killed, it must have been awful and quite a shock but that has no bearing on today for her. She didn't tell you that.

If you really feel that she is crawling out of the woodwork...you mean like an insect?.....then maybe you are not ready to give her the respect she deserves.

Everything I have read here about reunion is the effect it is having on the mothers.

Isbo you are saying that husband is protecting other children from amom's manipulations/ How? It sounds like to me he is protecting his family from the young adoptee......

I still stand by the fact that in order to protect this young girl, even if her amother is evil and manipulitive, someone needs to be the bigger person and do what is needed to protect her. Back off, don't tell her what to do..tell her she needs to do what is best for herand what will make her feel the most comfortable.

I don't want anyone to feel attacked. I am sorry if you felt that way. But the subtle putdowns of adoptees is avery common thread in all situations I have come to read. I am certianly of the mindset that respect needs to be shown in all situations and as an adoptee most of us are real good at understanding everyone elses needs, even when it hurts us to the core.

When someone is stuck in the middle and no one is looking out for her needs...she is definetly being played pawn even if if it si not being seen by those that are doing it. Even when it is unintentional.

[Jennasmom1990]

Depen6...I have had enough!!! You have no earthly I idea of what you are talking about. I put this post up to get some support and understanding, not to be belittle and talked down to. I have allowed my bdaughter to call all the shots in this reunion, even though some of the shots that were called were not good choices and choices that would not have flown with me from my other children. The "raised" children as you state ARE just as affected by this as the "put up" child is. My 16 daughter is strugglihg through this, she is/was my only girl and the oldest. Now alot has changed, but we are muddling through this as a family bc that is what families do. They work out their issues, and they love eachother through them. My bdaughter is the one who started calling me Mom from day 1, she is the one that was very presistent about me coming and meeting her f2f, ans she is also the one who wants to fly here to meet the rest of the family. That was all her, reguardless of whether she is 18 or 8, I do understand that she is not thinking with an adult mind yet...however you are the very person who told me not to tell her how to feel or how to deal with things. So with that being said I am only going based on what she is claiming to want, and I have talked to the amom and it i her that is not wanting the bdaughter not to come. Not the bdaughter. So I really think that unless you have something constructive to say you really should hold your tongue. Bc I am trying very hard to allow my bdaughter to form a relationship with me and still am encouraging her to maintain a relationship with the amom. I have put all of her needs over the last 6 weeks before mine, my husbands, and even my other children, and I am very sorry if you cant see it...especially since you don't know the whole story!!!

[Oceans]

((( Jennasmom ))) I am sorry you are feeling attacked. I can only imagine how stressful this is. As I said, my opinion is that trimming back contact at this point would be very hurtful. Several adoptee's have posted (in the past) how hurt they felt about bmom's pulling back. I don't think that's a good idea.

I am getting from you that you are trying hard to keep your DD out of the middle also a big stresser for adoptee's in reunion.

I also don't see you putting all of your adoption stuff on her. I think many times it is assumed bmoms are bundles of unresolved emotional issues and can not wait to share those feeling with our placed children in one big emotional dump. Obviously, this is not the case... Hang in there. Most of us really want to help ((( Hugs ))))

So... That said... Does your DD know how her mom feels about you? I ask because I think it's imprtant that she form her own opinions about how her mom is handling this. You don't want to get in the middle of that (obviously).

Also, was amom planning on joining DD when she visits you on vacation?

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by Jennasmom1990

Depen6...I have had enough!!! You have no earthly I idea of what you are talking about. I put this post up to get some support and understanding, not to be belittle and talked down to. I have allowed my bdaughter to call all the shots in this reunion, even though some of the shots that were called were not good choices and choices that would not have flown with me from my other children. The "raised" children as you state ARE just as affected by this as the "put up" child is. My 16 daughter is strugglihg through this, she is/was my only girl and the oldest. Now alot has changed, but we are muddling through this as a family bc that is what families do. They work out their issues, and they love eachother through them. My bdaughter is the one who started calling me Mom from day 1, she is the one that was very presistent about me coming and meeting her f2f, ans she is also the one who wants to fly here to meet the rest of the family. That was all her, reguardless of whether she is 18 or 8, I do understand that she is not thinking with an adult mind yet...however you are the very person who told me not to tell her how to feel or how to deal with things. So with that being said I am only going based on what she is claiming to want, and I have talked to the amom and it i her that is not wanting the bdaughter not to come. Not the bdaughter. So I really think that unless you have something constructive to say you really should hold your tongue. Bc I am trying very hard to allow my bdaughter to form a relationship with me and still am encouraging her to maintain a relationship with the amom. I have put all of her needs over the last 6 weeks before mine, my husbands, and even my other children, and I am very sorry if you cant see it...especially since you don't know the whole story!!!

I do have an earthly idea as I have lived being in the middle.

But as you feel I am atttacking I will back out of this one.

please keep your daughters place important. She desrves nothing less.

Thats I am telling you to back off maybe if this meeting is causing so much stress for everyone else its time to just back out of it and wait until she is mature enough to tell her amom what she wants.

Until then she will continue to be in the middle.

sorry if thats hurtful, it is not meant to be.

i am sensing your stress and if it is that bad then again, you need to back off and get some counseling for everyone. 6 weeks is a very short time...sometimes things are not worked out for years, with the people involved being much older.

I am not saying don't have contact, just don't plan on visits.

what i said was never meant to be hurtful, just the fact for some adopted people.

[RavenSong]

Jennasmom, I agree with Oceans...you've already formed a relationship with your bdaughter. If you drop out of the relationship now, I think she'll feel very, very hurt...confused, angry, and abandoned. I can tell by your writing that you are trying to approach this situation with love, respect, and concern for everybody.

I disagree with the person who said that your other children aren't affected as much as your bdaughter. Of course they're affected...this is their sister, whether she was raised with them or not. Reunion is often extremely hard on the "eldest" of the "raised" children. Her position as the first-born child is no longer the case, and it will take a lot of time for her to process this fact.

I'm sorry if some of the posts on this thread upset you...I know how that feels. I keep trying to grow a "thick skin" when I'm writing on the boards, but so far I have been rather unsuccessful. The fact is that it hurts when you ask for support and/or advice, only to be told that you're using your bdaughter as a pawn or that you don't have her best interests at heart. So many things can be misinterpreted on an Internet forum. That is why I strongly encourage all birthmoms to join triad support groups that regularly meet in a physical location. There just is something fundamental that occurs when you talk to another person in real life that you don't get online. When you can actually see the person you're talking to, along with their body language, things don't come across as so harsh.

[rainmon]

At 18 "the law" says all people are an adult...it is not just something birthparents use as a : "self serving benchmark." 18 year olds are also old enough to be sent to war and fight... & die for our country, they are also old enough to make their own medical decisions, and are responsible for their own behavior now, and finances, can drive a car without parents permission, get their own apartment, get credit in their own name....go to college (alone) in far away places...go where they want, see who they want, get the type of job they want, they are now expected to make their own decisions about everything in their life and what they want to do
with it.
But....did I get this right??? they are not capable of making a decission at 18 on whether or not they can handle contact from the women who gave birth to them?????!!!! but they are allowed or expected to make all those other decisions....all these other choices are theirs at 18........
but just not "THAT" ??????? !!!!!!

LOL!!! yeah!!! ....sure!!!!!

[dpen6]

Yes, leggally they can do all of that...but emotionally they MAY NOT BE.

The fact that some of you really don't have any interst in seeing what it may be like for the person that was placed, the fact that every rationization is made to make excuses to contact...on your terms, to not listen to the countless adoptees that have said they were not ready at 18 tells me that yes..you are using 18 as a self serving bench mark!!!

It amazes me how it seems I have hit a nerve when ever I speak about how it might feel for an adoptee.

I have an 18 year old, I have been 18....legally they can do alot. Emotionally they are not there yet.

Like I have said, their have been many birthmoms that relinqieshed their babies because their parents made them...at the ages of 18, 20 ,21. they did not have the maturity to stand up to their parents and get what theyneeded to keep them. But that child 18 years later is suppose to be "mature"enough" to deal with the emoti9on of reunion. Their may be some that are, but their may be many that are not. My point being...be very careful...because of the fact that they may look like they are ready but when they pull back, when they strike out because of confusion it might be because they were too young for contact.

The women that gave birth to them, the women that raised them are important but the real fact that they do have to deal with both is what nobody gets....the fact that they have dealt with being adopted for the good or the bad from childhood and the fact that everyone else just knows what is ok for them. What they can handle, what they SHOULD do, or how they SHOULD act is well self serving. You want them to be ready from a bmoms side, an amom might say they are not...HMMM..does the person impacted have a voice. Well if they do try it is often said they are not understanding, that they are HURTING everyone but themselves.

Stop and think about what is really going here. !8 is NOT a magic age here....

[curiositykitten]

Each 18 year old is different. I think that the situation doesn't need to be judged by the daughters age but by the daughters actions. 18, is -not- a magical age and some 18 year olds are far more mature than others.

The big problem is now if she backs away or steps back her daughter may feel a sense of rejection which can be emotionally damaging for her. I'm not saying that she should work against the amom but I don't think that she can just let things go and stop either without hurting her daughter.

I still would go back to my suggestion that I would try to speak to the amom, remind her that you guys made an agreement, and explain to her how hard it would be to change things due to the things with your other children. If you really have a heart to heart with her maybe you can work things out together.

[Jennasmom1990]

curiosity...i have tried to have a good convo with the amom, but it always ends up backfiring on me. She hates that this can of worms got opened and that she can't just simply put the lid back on it. My daughter feels like she is ready for this...which some people on this board dont seem to understand. It is the amom that is not ready, and I just dont think I can sway her. I amnot even sure at this point it is worth trying. My daughter is 18 an adult now, if she wants to come bad enough she will stand up to her amom and tell her that. Am I afraid that we she won't or can't? of course but I also know I can not and will not do this for her. She wants me to treat her like and adult, and so she must show the actions of an adult. she has to fight that battle on her own...she can't expect her mommy to rush in and save her from her other mommy. Only she can that, she has a rocky relationship with her amom at best. The amom is a right fighter and she is a no holds bar type person. I can't go up against her and quite frankly I just dont want to. Everytime I have tried to talk to her and tell her where I am coming from it becomes a tremendous war. I am not a born fighter...I am a peacemaker...so it is not that I don't love my daughter bc I dearly do. But she has to do this on her own, and I guess I hae made peace with the fact that if it is important enough for her she will do it... and if it isn't then she won't. And if she doesn't then I will accept that (yes it will hurt) is her choice and I will just continue to do what I am doing which is to be there for her when she needs me. But I do hope in the end that if she makes the choice to not come that she is adult enough in her emotions to understand that the consequences are going to be great. She is the one that will ahve to live and deal with the idea of me and my family being only 10 miles away from her for 14 days, and her not having very much or no interaction with me at all. those are going to be the consequences of her choice, and to be honest that is just the way it has to be. My husband won't give and frankly I totally understand his point, and if she isnt ready to stand up to her amom then I am in a corner that I have to live with. So you see this is not just about the adoptee getting her way or my husband getting his way. this is about trying to bring an entire family together without someone getting hurt. My husband has stated his case to my bdaughter, and she says that she completely understands and that she will talk to the amom. So I will wait to see what comes next...what else can I do. I am caught in the middle between my bdaughter that I love and my husband and other children that I love, and truly I am so confused now that I am not even sure I know what the right thing is. Because of that I have just decided that it is time for me to take a step back and allow the cards to fall. Once they fall then I will figure out what needs to be done to pick up the pieces and see if there is even a full deck anymore. I hope I made sense in this post bc I really felt like I ws rambling, but at this stage I am just numb, confused, and hate what has to happen.

[txrnr]

Jennasmom... I think your last post says it all. She wants a relationship with you, and she says she's ready. Unfortunetly, it sounds like she may not be as ready as she'd like to believe as she can not stand up to her amom and do as she wishes. While she's legally old enough, it sounds as if she still relies on her Mom for many, many things, and as you suspect, Mom has control of this situation. Please don't give up on her, and please realize that in time (a week, a few months...who knows) she'll be better equipped to stand up for herself and make those decisions no matter the consequences. Right now, you and the rest of your family may have to go this vacation alone. Not fair, but then little in adoption is, right?

I hope amom comes to her senses soon, and realizes you aren't a threat, and helps your daughter with this relationship.

This must be heartbreaking, but over time, I hope it proves to be just a small bump in your journey, while now it seems like a huge mountain.

[rainmon]

My point simply is: an adoptee or anyone for that matter has a right to make a choice on their "own" on whether or not to have contact with a someone...... from age 18 on.
don't read anything more into what has been said please.

These choices should not be made "for them" anymore
"from this point on" not behind their back,
or "in their best interest" they now should be able to decide who they want to date, who their friends will be and what subjects they will take when they go to college........
and especially if they want to have contact with a birthparent or not.
if they "ask" for advice then give it, but when they make their choice, respect it. don't try to influence them because of your own fears or try to emotionally control them.
the younger years when they were being raised is when you are to be teaching them how to make mature choices, so now be proud of them, trust them and allow them to make them on their own.
and when they have made their choice, respect it, whether its; yes, I am ready... or no I'm not at this time. just allow them now to make the decision for themselves.
We were "all" 18 once...and many of us now have raised adult kids, everyone is unigue and have different strenghths and weaknesses in different places and at different points in our lives, but the key is to respect our kids enough to allow them to make their own choices, and yes sometimes they may make a mistake...but we must not try to control their lives because "we" want to make their choices for them... as there will most likely be silent resentment from them about that, and only heartache for the one that did not respect them enough to give them that right.

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by rainmon

My point simply is: an adoptee or anyone for that matter has a right to make a choice on their "own" on whether or not to have contact with a someone...... from age 18 on.
don't read anything more into what has been said please.

These choices should not be made "for them" anymore
"from this point on" not behind their back,
or "in their best interest" they now should be able to decide who they want to date, who their friends will be and what subjects they will take when they go to college........
and especially if they want to have contact with a birthparent or not.
if they "ask" for advice then give it, but when they make their choice, respect it. don't try to influence them because of your own fears or try to emotionally control them.
the younger years when they were being raised is when you are to be teaching them how to make mature choices, so now be proud of them, trust them and allow them to make them on their own.
and when they have made their choice, respect it, whether its; yes, I am ready... or no I'm not at this time. just allow them now to make the decision for themselves.
We were "all" 18 once...and many of us now have raised adult kids, everyone is unigue and have different strenghths and weaknesses in different places and at different points in our lives, but the key is to respect our kids enough to allow them to make their own choices, and yes sometimes they may make a mistake...but we must not try to control their lives because "we" want to make their choices for them... as there will most likely be silent resentment from them about that, and only heartache for the one that did not respect them enough to give them that right.

I totally agree...with the thought that ALL parents have to respect where the child is at.

Example: You have 2 kids.

One wants to go AWAY to college...that child is ready and rearing to go. As a mother you let them go...gulping the whole way. Be there if a problem occurs.

2 child , wants to stay home, not ready to go, needs more support and time. You give it to them because that is where they are at. Gramma, says you are babying them...kick them out they have to grow up, you as the mother tel lthat gramma to butt out, the child hears from gramma, is being pressured by gramma, and also being pressured by friends.....but deep down is afraid to go. But is being told "stand up to your mother" Its up to mom to say stop, she is not ready.....leave her alone.

Thats not controlling. Thats doing the right thing for the indivual child.

If the child is unable to sand up to hermother then she is to young to be presuured by ANYONE to do what may NOT be in the childs best interst but in the interst of the person doing the pressuring. As theygrow the person will open their eyes to what has happened and WILL go the one the accepted them unconditionally....respect4ed their feelings unconditinally without the added pressure of how this persons behavior affected everyone else. MOMS<DAD<SPOUSES<OTHER CHIDREN<AUNTS UNCLES<THEFAMILY PET....when the person that was disrupted from an early is isrespected, no matte how old they are is when a relationsgip can go foward in a healthy way.

If in fact the reunion is causing friction for the child/adult then someone needs to back out and say ...hold on....this is not healthy.

I have seen it go both ways, I have seen adoptive parents say they are not ready...self serving...I have seen birthparents say ...of course they are ready. they are saying so!!! I have seen comments like "they can deal with it", I have sen comments like My child hates me, has hurt me, not going to set myself up for hurt anymore. And really all this child has done is be adopted. That very fact makes them a portal for others pain. Which ever way this person goes they are hurting smeone, someone they may care about. Not because they have actualy done anything but because they exist and don't behave in the way that SOMEONE..could be anyone sees as respectful, or right.They could be seen as hurtful or a threat to someones family...just because they exist. I am NOT talking about rude behavior, or demanding behavior...I am talking about basic decsions that they make regarding where they are going with their parents. Any of them...all 4/8/ whatever. they are resposible for "completing" someones life at a very young age. ONLY because they conceived at the wrong time, and adopted.

Just respect that position. If they are unable to say no to aparents then don't push....not because I am trying to protect the amother but because I am trying to make it easier for the child. If a birth family is being threatened by the mere exostences of theis prson then for heaven sake slow it down...no one wants to feel like they are barging in on another life and "hurt" the spouses and families. Let her be to live with the confidence that she does desreve the same respect and protection as anyone else. If she is being looked at at something to be controlled(as in husband wanting to control how the visits will take place and if it is not done they way HE wants now it will never change) then let it go until this person CAN decide what is right for her and be respectful of everyone else in the process.

as it is now she is being pushed by both birth and adoptive families and if she is unable to stand up and say, without feeling like she is going to hurt someone, what she wants then she is NOT ready.

I am seeing this as all about control, amom might be wrong but to push this child to go aganist her is more for the satisfaction of the birth family and the birthfamilies ability to make the rules. NOT about waht is best for this child.

I still say let this girl mature, gain confidence, live life somemore and then let her make her decsions.

When I had the reuinon with my bmom my mom was very spportive. I have not had a reunion with bfather. My dad is very threatended with the thought of that....it hurts him. AS an adult now....I would still do it because it is what I need or want, but I would not hurt my dad in any way...so he would not know. I have aquired that confidence over the years of life experiance and maturity. I know that my relationship with my dad won't change, I still love him as my dad. But I know I need t do what I need to do.

There is no way in hell that I had that confidence at the age of 18, ther is no way I could have lived withmyself for hurting dad if I did. The guilt would have crushed me...only because i was adopted. Now I know that I am doing nothing wrong but looking out for me, now I know I may have to deal others opinions and needs..but have the strenght to keep myself intact while doing so. Why did I even have to get to this point....just because I was adopted.

I would not have been ready at eighteen. i have seen lots of adoptees who say they would not have ready at 18, I think i would have accepted the contact...without anyidea what was really involved. It just would have hurt me in the long run. so yes, we can respect what they are saying at 18 but have a measure of caution that they stand to get hurt because they are only 18. If amoms and bfamilies are fighting over the when and hows of thereunion then its not the right time.

In a perfect world all the adoptive parents of the world, all the birthparents of the world could get over themseoves and their own hurt to do whats right forthe adoptee but that doesn't happen often.