[crick]

While my kids are adjusting fairly well to the new school routine, new teachers and classes etc., I have noticed that 4 of the 6 teachers we have (oldest has 3 teachers) have quite an elaborate method of tracking and enforcing behavior/consequence.

I'm not all that keen on some things but thought I'd first get an idea what others experience to see if this is more common than I think.

For example...

My 5th grader gets a strike for every infraction. There are no reminders and it really does seem like every "wrong" action gets a strike. If he talks out of turn, strike. If they forget homework, strike. If they fiddle with their pencil during class work, strike, and if some kids are talking, it's not uncommon for the whole class to then get a strike. If they get a 4th strike, they then have to fill out a sheet explaining what they did, why they did it, how they felt when they did it and how they'll avoid doing it again. I have to sign this sheet and "confirm" that I have talked to my child regarding his action.

I'm curious.....what is it like for your child's classroom and what are your thoughts on the methods used by your teachers? Agree, disagree? Suggestions for changes you might have if you don't agree?

[lucyjoy]

That's how our school using the x smilie system. I like the no warnings part but the rest of it is stupid. They strike 5 and lose team time, 10 to lose hall time, and 15 buys them a trip to the buddy room to fill out the sheet.
So far S stops at 4 strikes a week.

[bajj]

My son's teacher does 2 strikes (which are warnings) and then you go to pulling your card.

What I have a real issue is right now is after our goals night last night. The teacher sat there and told us parents, "we have this new curriculum and none of us like it but we are being forced to strictly follow it. We feel it is lacking but we will make the best of it. Also, I have taught 2nd grade for 12 years and this is my first year to teach 1st grade. i was told it was time for a change and there is where I was assigned."

What???????????? Not comforting, not even in the least!

[crick]

My "issue" I guess (I have many, let's be honest) is that it seems so nit picky in a way and truly ineffective. To me, a much better way to deal with "infractions" is an immediate response and one DIRECTLY related to the infraction. Keeping a tally sheet so to speak of every thing you do wrong, well....2 thoughts on that....

1. A child will just decide "whatever, I know now I'm not getting my Friday recess so it doesn't matter anyway" (Lucy, like your son decides "I'll do this much but will stop at #4, but don't really care about 1-3)

2. A child just gets beaten down emotionally because they feel they can't get anything right at all.

I really liked my dd's 3rd grade teacher because she didn't mess with a "System"...just dealt with it as it happened. She told us at the pre conference something to the effect of "I'm here to teach, your child is here to learn. I do not like wasting my time, their time or your time on things like this".

And it worked too. My dd can push limits and this was the first teacher she had where dd realized "oh, she means business!"

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something in all these systems and methods, but I really don't see it being effective and to me it's very time consuming for a teacher to keep track of all this stuff. When will they truly have time to teach if they spend all their time keeping track of this? Especially my son's teachers, since they teach 90 kids through out the day. (roughly 30 kids to a class and the classes rotate for subjects)

I'm all for behavioral expectations and consequences...just not sure these types of methods are truly effective.

Ani - I'm sure it doesn't do much for your confidence in the teacher when she starts the year already stressed due to district/school rules that don't give her any control over her job. I feel for her, because I do think this is one area where teachers truly have lost their voices and have been made a part of a "corporate management" environment, which I don't think belongs in a school. I try to really support my kids' teachers on this front and hope too that they don't allow their irritation with the district show through to the kids.

[ddhuab]

That method sort of reminds me of a method I learned of one day in college when I observed in a classroom for students with Behavioral Disablilities. The teacher kept tickmarks on a dry-erase board... and actually, she didn't really stop what she was doing, just made a tickmark (it was at the front of the class with everyone's name)... I think after so many tickmarks, the kid had to go to time out or something. I know they had a sort of closeted room (very large) build into the classroom where some kids would go, but I think that was only when they were being extremeley energetic or violent (I remember a kid beating his head against the wall in there and throwing his shoes). The dean of the School of Ed. at Florida state wanted me to observe this classroom since I was thinking of going into Special Ed.

Edited to add: now I remember, so many tick marks and they would get priviledges taken away, like snack time (or what kind of snack at snack time). They onlyl went into the "closet" for wild behavior. I think once the priviledge was taken away, they got so many marks erased, or maybe just the last ten. (Start over teh next day though). A couple of kids had like 15 tickmarks! Sorry, I know this isn't relevant to you, I just find the whole keeping score thing interesting.

Of course, this was >10 years ago. I think those kids got it and learned anyway. The method you describe is different, and I don't understand how it would be effective when there is not one single behavioral issue they would be describing, and how would they remember so many hours later how they felt while they did it? Seems like she owuld at least have them keep writing journals and stop right then to think alone outside the classroom and write.

D.

[Lorraine123]

I would not like the fact that you are supposed to talk with your child about the infraction in school. I feel that the teacher should handle misbehavior in the classroom. Now, of course, if its major then thats different, but this is talking, not paying attention etc.

[crick]

Ddhaub - interesting...especially since it was for Special Ed, or at least kids with behavioral issues. It makes me wonder then if the teachers feel due to class size they just need to implement this right away to prevent behavioral issues?

Lorraine - I have an issue with that too..because honestly when it comes right down to it...I do not have time to review and sign so much ppwk on a daily basis. (we have to sign everything...not just this stuff/homework, planners etc.) Besides...I totally agree with you that this kind of thing should stay at school unless it's a continuing issue or serious issue.

[dragonfly1234]

A child just gets beaten down emotionally because they feel they can't get anything right at all.

I so agree with you on this Crick!

My son got off the bus last week so upset. It took about an hour to finally get what happened at school. His teacher does the green, yellow, and red for miss behavior. The children can also be awarded with "yellow slips" when other teachers observe good behavior in the hallway, cafeteria, and bathroom. My son is a good kid (most times....lol he does digress at times) and he takes pride in earning these yellow slips.

Most of the class was having a really bad day and the teacher took all the yellow slips that INDIVIDUAL students earned and ripped them up because most of the class was bad. My son was crushed.

I don't agree with this system and plan to discuss with the teacher this week.

With that being said I do understand why teachers have to do something for the miss behaviour issues but there has to be something better.

[bajj]

Awww, Michelle, poor big M. That seems quite harsh to me. I think kids need to be shown a bit of mercy. I understand that no tolerance is in place to protect the kids, but at such young ages, they need baby steps and mercy.

[mrsred]

dragonfly, it sounds to me like your son's teacher pretty much lost it. I am sure she was ahving a bad day, but to tear up the kids' earned yellow slips is not a "consequence" for their behavior, it is a tizzy fit on her part.
and bajj, I am with you... your sons teacher's comments do not exactly inspire confidence.
Our school uses the card system... start on green and progresses to purple or something. I am not convinced it is effective, but has to be better than a tally mark everytime they do something wrong.

[qs mom]

Today was my son's first day. Our school has a card system.

Green - Great day! - everyone starts on green
Yellow - a warning,
Blue - 5 minute time out, think about choices
Pink - 10 minute time out, discuss choices
White - to the principal, call home

Pink and white also gets a slip sent home, citing each flip of the card, I have to sign it, my son has to sign it and send it back. It is a 3 part carbon form - 1 copy for me, 1 for the teacher and one for the principal.

The consequence is immediate, in that the child needs to go to there card and flip to the appropriate color. Q hates it! Something that has helped is a communication notebook. He knows that his teacher is telling me about his day - he wants to know what I'm being told. But he's in 2nd grade this year, if he thinks about it, he could just read it!

[Tudu]

Our teachers "pull a stick". It is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. Last year my son held a female student on the ground and pulled her arms up behind her, spit on another student, ripped up all his books, threw a fit in class b/c he wasn't done with his snack and each time they just pulled a stick. Other children got them for forgetting to have something signed or talking too loud. It didn't seem fair at all. He was able to make sure he only got 1 a day but always for something big. he worked it so well.

[ajjhmf]

Tudu, that's insane. I'm surprised the girl's parents didn't get involved. We were facing a zero-tolerance expulsion when J pointed a sharp pencil at his classmate and said "I'm gonna kill you!" Now, he said it in jest (even the girl knew it) but they still got their panties in a wad over in the office.

Pull a freaking stick...gimme a break. No wonder kids think they can get away with things. They can.

[bajj]

That is the problem I see with this whole infraction equals tally or pulled card or pulled stick thing. Some things need more serious consequences!

When my ds was in K he rarely got in trouble. However, one day he and his friend had a "sword" fight with their lunch boxes. Another teacher brought them back to his teacher's class and she skipped their "strikes" and went straight to their card. It was the only pulled card he had that year. If he had just gotten a strike by his name (3 strikes then you move on to cards) then he wouldn't have cared at all. It would have not been effective. Even though he and his friend weren't fighting, they did learn not to rough house at school.

[crick]

It really sounds like the "elaborate systems" are nationwide! Wow.

Maybe I am missing something, but I remember when I was in school we were expected to behave and when we didn't, we got an immediate consequence. No endless notes were sent home, and your parents were called when there was a true situation to call home about. I even double checked with some of my mom's friends to see what it was like back then, and they confirmed my memories.

Yesterday brought home another strike for my son; he forgot to bring his reading book to school. Okay, that's fine...he absolutely needs to remember to bring his books to school. What I find interesting though is another child kicked my son's desk knocking over his accordian folder and when it hit the floor, the clasp got broken so now it will not close. And what do you know....no strike. Hmmm...

Surely there has to be a more effective way to enforce classroom rules? And honestly, when my son can't tell me a single thing he learned at school that day but can tell me who got strikes and why.....that's an issue.