[quantum]

(((((TG)))))

Thanks for sharing your story.
You're so brave! And I can understand your choices.

I often have wished that I stayed at college and did it myself (not brave enough to give birth by myself).

[thanksgivingmom]

Thank you all soooo much for your support. It's because of support like this that (as some of you already know) I'm "coming out" a tiny bit (which is WAY more than before) by putting up a pic of A in my office. Before coming here I really never even contemplated that I would ever tell a friend/coworker/etc. about DD.

And Muse, you definitely made me laugh saying that it was the "climbing Mount Everst of child-birthing." Thanks

As for all the stuff about me being brave, thank you, but really, I just did what I had to do for A...for me, doing it alone was the cowardly thing to do, telling someone would have taken way more guts (which I didn't and still don't have). But thank you for your kind words

[mom2GRLC]

On Oprah today they had a young woman (talking from jail) about her experience with having an unplanned pregnancy at the age of 15. She was "the perfect child" good in sports, school , was a cheerleader etc...but when she found herself pregnant she got scared and didn't want anyone to know about it. So she hid her pregnancy, gave birth to her baby in her bathroom and killed it. Then her and the boyfriend dumped it in a nearby lake.

They talked about the Safe Heaven laws that now exist in almost all the states. One woman that was there helped establish the safe heaven law in her state (idaho) and later went on and adopted a safe heaven baby herself.

The girl who was brave enough to share her experience was hoping that she could reach out to anyone who might find themselves in her position and encouraging them to not make the same mistakes she did that she will have to live with the rest of her life.

Hopefully Oprah was able to spread the word about safe haven laws and we'll see many other wonderful birthmothers who choose life for their babies....come foreward and start talking about their experiences.

[thanksgivingmom]

Okay, so I'm going to try to assume that you weren't trying to say what it sounds like you're saying...HOWEVER your story implies that is Safe Haven laws didn't exist, I and other Safe Haven Birthmothers would have killed thier children. I am really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, but associating Safe Haven with women that kill thier children is VERY offensive and is just a stereotype. YES some women have done this, but to imply that those of us that use Safe Haven would have taken our childs life if S.H. wasn't an option is BEYOND hurtful.

This is ANOTHER birthparent stereotype that needs to be dealt with, and perpetuating it is unacceptable to me.

[patti Daniels]

God bless you. I am an adoptive parent and I think Safe Haven is a great option.

[patti Daniels]

Safe Haven should have a safe haven (hospital to deliver the baby) no questions asked. This would make sure the mothers could have a safe labor and delivery. I wish States would think about this and allow the mothers to enter the hospital without any questions and help deliver the baby. Just a thought.

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by thanksgivingmom

.for me, doing it alone was the cowardly thing to do, telling someone would have taken way more guts (which I didn't and still don't have). But thank you for your kind words

I think you are right about this. Because the thing of it is, if SH did not exist, you would have gone to the agency, you would have gotten medical help and emotional support and you would have been able to choose to have the kind of openness you want. You would have not thrown your baby in a dumpster, because that is not you.

I think what we need to change in this country is not the laws, but people's attitudes about an unplanned pregnancy, and choosing adoption. My heart breaks that you do not feel like you could tell your mom and feel supported. I am glad that your daughter was born healthy, but I know women who delivered still borns. Who knows if the outcome would have been the same had they delivered with medical support. In TX, a woman and her baby died in motel room.. she was planning to do SH. She was a 32 gym teacher in a small town. She, too, felt like she could not tell anyone. This is where the real change needs to happen.

I do not wish to see an increase in Safe Havens. I want to see women getting the real services they need.

Can I ask you what you think the ramifications of telling your parents would have been?

[mom2GRLC]

Thanksgivingmom,

I understand what your trying to say.

But safe heaven laws WERE created to help save lives. To help save babies from being killed, or abandoned in unsafe conditions.

It gave a chance for these woman to safely and most importantly "annonymously" place their children without facing abandonment/child endangerment charges.

I'm sure there are some birthmothers like you. Who Knew right from the start they were going to place their baby in that way.

That's not to say that you would have considered hurting or abandoning your child somewhere or that someone else would have who also placed in that way.

Just that the law was made for THE PURPOSE of saving babies lives and giving these woman a safe way to place their child annonimously.

I agree there should be an option for the mother to use the safe haeven law, while also giving birth in the hospital...annonymously. For the safety of both the mother and child.

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by bromanchik

I think you are right about this. Because the thing of it is, if SH did not exist, you would have gone to the agency, you would have gotten medical help and emotional support and you would have been able to choose to have the kind of openness you want. You would have not thrown your baby in a dumpster, because that is not you.

I think what we need to change in this country is not the laws, but people's attitudes about an unplanned pregnancy, and choosing adoption. My heart breaks that you do not feel like you could tell your mom and feel supported. I am glad that your daughter was born healthy, but I know women who delivered still borns. Who knows if the outcome would have been the same had they delivered with medical support. In TX, a woman and her baby died in motel room.. she was planning to do SH. She was a 32 gym teacher in a small town. She, too, felt like she could not tell anyone. This is where the real change needs to happen.

I do not wish to see an increase in Safe Havens. I want to see women getting the real services they need.

Can I ask you what you think the ramifications of telling your parents would have been?

I understand your point about the change happening in the minds of people/society with regards to unplanned pregnancy. There have been other unplanned pregnancies in my family with women that were dating my brothers. In each situation my brothers married the woman while pregnant, as this was what you "should do" and what the family expects. This was NOT an option for me. I would NOT have married bdad, especially as he was threatening with regards to my decision to not terminate the pregnancy. While he DEMANDED termination, my family would have seen no other option but parenting.

Now don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to have parented, and I know many bmoms would have loved to be in my situation given that my parents would have pursued this option over adoption. However, I live at home, have been working so hard to get my education complete, and find a job (I didn't have a real job during the pregnancy). I felt so trapped when I thought of parenting. I felt trapped into living at home forever, not doing all the things I had worked so hard for. And believe me, typing this, I feel VERY selfish for wanting to pursue these things...

At the end of the day, no one else would have supported MY decision, what I wanted to do, and I didn't want to resent anyone for making the decision for me. Misguided as my perspective may be, I knew that adoption was right for me, and I chose not to involve anyone that would not be supportive of that decision.

[Leigh131313]

I saw the Oprah episode discussed earlier.


The point was, IF the safehaven law had existed for THAT mother - it might have changed the outcome. Therefor you must conclude that other mothers may also be given a "way out" through safehaven without harming the child - or themselves.

However, taking this one step further, and saying that without safehaven - you (or other) mom's would have harmed the child - is just not what was intended.


I dont think that's what anyone meant.

[thanksgivingmom]

I understand that might not have been the intention Leigh, which is why I tried to give the benefit of the doubt to Mom2grlc. However, it's a connection that is often made by individuals and the media, that if Safe Haven didn't occur, those that currently use Safe Haven would have taken the lives of thier children, so I just wanted to give her the opportunity to clarify if she chose.

I guess part of the problem with saying that Safe Haven is for those Mothers, is that babies are still being found in tragic situations, in dumpsters, etc. by women that are not using the Safe Haven laws available to them.

The anonymity of Safe Haven is what appealed to me. I think it would be great if that anonymity would go over to hospitals and allowing Mothers a place to anonymously give birth. At the hospital I went to shortly after giving birth, it was not the most supportive environment, and honestly, not the kind of environment I would have wanted to give birth in. Ordinarily it's a great hospital. It's where I was born and I had two sister-in-laws deliver there in the months and a half after I gave birth. My treatment was NOTHING like that of my sisters. That includes in the days following when I would return to hold A.

[browneyes0707]

Just wanted to share a story that might shed a bit of insight.

Last month the newspaper in my area reported that police were anonymously called to a wooded culdesac to rescue an abandoned newborn. The baby was hours old. Fortunately, the response time was very quick, and the baby was brought to a nearby hospital and was checked out and healthy. They were able to use caller ID to trace the mom's identity, and she was arrested.

One of the sidebars in the article was an editorial on Safe Haven. In our county Safe Havens are any hospital, police or fire station or house of worship. As long as the baby was dropped off safely, there is no legal recourse. (Meaning they didn't leave the child on a church doorstep in the midst of a snowstorm, etc.) The reporter was wondering why, with what is considered more lenient SH laws available to her, she still chose to leave the child in a wooded lot. (It was a sympathetic, not inflammatory, editorial) In the police were too long in responding, or an animal came by, the consequences would be devistating. The nearest hospital was less than 5 miles away. If she had decided to go SH, she would have been able to avoid jail, and possibly have a open adoption relationship with the child she placed (like TG) Instead she faces quite a few years in jail.

Just to clarify, the next county over, which is 10 miles from where this occured, the only approved safe havens are four specific hospitals and that is all.

[mom2GRLC]

I agree with bromanchic.

I think SAFE HEAVEN laws are both good and bad. Good in that they have saved a number of babies from being hurt or abandoned.(which was it's purpose).

But I do agree it shouldn't be considered when one is making an "ADOPTION PLAN" for their child. It should only be used by those who are in desperate situations where they feel there is absolutely no other way and that certianly beats the alternative of having an innocent baby hurt or abandoned in unsafe conditions.

I think it is much better for EVERYONE involved if a real adoption plan was made. Where the mother and child were recieving pre-natal medical care. Where the mother delivered her child under safe conditions with a trained medical doctor/midwife present to watch out for both the mother and the baby's health/safety. Where the child had acces even to a small degree their family/medical history. ETC. Some of those babies will never know their exact date of birth, or even location.

There are still ways to protect the identity of the mother in an adoption process. She could go away for a couple months to a new state. She could choose to have a closed adoption or only disclose non-identifying info to the adoptive parents. She can choose not to disclose the birthfathers name and list it as unknown. There are OPTIONS for birthmothers who want to be anonymous with out putting the health/safety of their child and themselves at risk by not receiving medical care.

SO I agree Bromanchic....I don't want to really see more "unecessary" babies born under the SH laws....but at the same time....if it saves even a few babies lives I'd think it's worth it to keep it around.

But hopefully more work could be done on informing the general public about options out there for these woman. Maybe schools could include some information in their sex ed classes. Or maybe have a school assembly talking about sex ed issues/parenting options/adoption options. Since everyone in their teen and young adult lives will face those issues at some point in their lives.

I think educating is the key.