[lakimnafite]

So, what is the statute of limitations on not letting a PI child cry it out at bedtime? We have been home two and a half years. For the most part, Allie has been pretty easy to put to bed. That was, until just recently. Now bedtime can last for two or three hours. Including major screaming, throwing things, hitting the walls or me if I am in the room. She will fight and fight sleep, continue to ask for more and more books, or water, or bathroom.. whatever she can think of. Of course, if I give her anything then it's "NO" and she screams and throws things.

I don't understand how or why a great sleeper took such a turn. I didn't change our bedtime rituals. But I can't handle bedtime any more. There is one change I will note but I don't think it really created this. Her brother shares her room while we have DH's brother living with us. However, they have different bed times and so she is asleep (assuming she fell asleep...) before his bed time. So, her bedtime shouldn't be effected by him other than he is there when she wakes up. He sleeps in a loft well above her so neither disturbs the other.

She will eventually fall asleep if someone is in the room with her. But she no longer will fall asleep on her own. Is this a phase, a problem, a warning sign? I do not want to be tied to her room for two hours every night while I wait for her to fall asleep! I want her to be a good healthy sleeper, with the ability to fall asleep on her own. But I do not want her to cry for hours and be afraid either.

I know the PI issue has got to trump the 'SuperNanny' cry it out philisophy - but I am at a loss!

Help..

Sleepless in Portland

[GCS]

How old is she? Is her attachment good or are there problems?

We went through this around 3 and a half with DD. She was very well attached and just decided that she no longer liked bed time. I am not one for letting a child cry it out for hours at a time. She was old enough for me to be strict and put a plan in place.

I would stay and lie in bed with her as long as she was quiet and closed her eyes. I would rub her head or her back if she wanted and I would snuggle with her. Then, after maybe 5 minutes lying like that I would kiss her good night and tell her I would see her in the morning. She would beg for one more minute and I would agree on the condition that there was no fussing. She always feels like she gets a "yes" then and I give her another 2 minutes or so and then go out.

At first I would have to get up to leave because she would talk. Once she saw I was serious and she had to be still for me to stay she would do what she had to. It took about a month but it worked for me. I still do this at bedtime and she's 4 and a half now.

Good luck!

[karenmarq]

We had a great sleeper from the time she was home at 1 1/2 years to 3 1/2 years. Then, whammo, sleeping was an issue along with many other things.

Basically, I think it was time for new routines. I went to the library and tried many different things. Some worked, others didn't.

One change was that she wanted us to come back and check on her. "I'll check on you." Easy enough.

Another change we made was that if after doing the whole regular routine and she was in bed, but not sleepy, we said that she could read her books, but not come out of her room. (This after the screaming, door slamming, out of control thing that just doesn't help anybody.)

It's a very frustrating issue that makes everybody grumpy. Hope these suggestions might help.

Karen

[Kasey]

I have noticed and also read that at the 2 yr home point, many kids feel comfortable enough to start challenging their parents and exerting more of their own will.
Have you asked her why she is sad or angry at bed?
For our oldest, around 3-31/2 we also went thru a change in bedtime, more tears, and alot more finding many excuses to delay and get out of bed. We co-slept alot, but had transitioned him to his own room and it had gone well for a while and then it started up. We took turns lying with him, rubbing his back. We also would put up 3 post it notes (like tickets) by his bed. Those were his 3 tickets to get out of bed to get a drink, go the bathroom, get a book, all those things he kept coming up with to delay bedtime. It gave him some control while setting limits, so that seemed to help. He is now 4 1/2 and there are still some nights he needs one of us to lay down with him, but they are few and far between. Our 3 yr old (home 2 yrs in Nov) now is starting with bedtime battles amongst some other battles now, so we are trying to figure out what works for him.
Best wishes!!!

[Mykidsmom]

I agree with the above poster, Kasey. Ask her why she is so upset at night-time. Let her know that bedtime is non-negotiable but you will try to make it easier for her.

[lakimnafite]

Seems that both the two years home and the 3 1/2 year old issues apply. As of today she is three years, six months and five days.

Her attachment, I believe, is great. She is loving, good eye contact, appropriately upset when I leave, happy and content after a few minutes, thrilled with lots of hugs and kisses when I return. She is in Early Intervention and they have evaluated and also feel attachment is good.

I like the ideas you all have given me. Hope to get a few different things to try! Something is bound to work.. I tried to talk to her about being upset at night, but I don't think she really knows. She is also very language delayed and doesn't have the ability to communicate that fully. But.. that is a different issue entirely...

Thanks, Keep 'em coming!

[angelkisses0102]

A couple of ideas...

Any change can impact sleep and having to suddenly share her room with her brother and having her uncle suddenly living there may be playing a larger role than you suspect.

Does she have any sensory issues? Sensory kids are not good sleepers in general and as sensory kids age...new 'triggers' can pop up. DS has moderate to severve sensory issues and at about that age we started allowing him to watch TV to decompress at night. Works wonders for him...I know many disagree with TV in bed or to fall alseep to but for my guy...it's a miracle.

You may want to try lullabies...DD listened to hers until she was in kindergarten.

Maybe try a nightlight or a stronger nightlight...kids this age start having some new fears and nighttime and a good imagination can wreak havoc at bedtime. DS has an eye condition that causes him to not see well at night...it took us quite awhile to figure out that he wasn't scared of the dark...he couldn't see. But being afraid of the dark is common.

Good luck...we ended up co-sleeping through these phases...just easier for us!

[MamaChinch]

It's not uncommon for toddlers sleeping habits to change a lot, coupled with her age (this is age where they start trying to stall) and the home two year mark and I had it happen too.
A couple things that worked: listening to soft music, a soft light in the room, monster spray, a checklist checking off our bedtime routine things, leaving her with a flaslight and some water.
I also asked her (with mykidsmoms suggestion) whys he would not go to bed. she said she needed to check on things, so we did, in between brushing teeth and story.....after a while she said she didn't need to check on things anymore.
When I tried the Super Nanny thing, she asked me what kind of game are we playing! You have to try different things and see what will work for her.
I have also let her watch TV to calm her down when we have been out and on her gymnastics night. Have you tried gradual retreat?
Oh, I put her lamp on a dimmer, too. She tells me how light she wants it each night. It's getting dimmer and dimmer.
Bless your heart...and good luck! You'll get through this phase.......

[mcanvasback]

Isabella did this too, at almost 3 (home exactly 2 years). All of a sudden she would not go to sleep in her crib, only in my bed. And I did try the "crying it out" - it didn't work. Then I put her in the guest room (because the bed was bigger, and I could lie down with her more comfortably.) Well, duh - the issue was, she was ready for a big girl bed. I fixed a beautiful princess bed (double, so I can lie down with her) and it worked like a charm. Some night sshe asks me to "stay" and I lie there until she falls alseep. I'm guessing Allie is already in a big bed and I'm sorry I don't have better advice but I'm guessing it is a 3 yo phase and this too shall pass.-

[amyfk]

We just had h-e-l-l with this issue with Joanna tonight. It took her two hours to go to bed with the screaming and crying. My dh does the bedtime thing, but Joanna wanted to watch more of her movie, read and read, get milk, etc. I am wondering if anyone is having troubles because the kids are going back to school after being off from the holidays? My kid has been home for 2.5 weeks. I dont know if she really wants to go back..... Just a thought.
Amy K, NJ

[lakimnafite]

I am finding that TV watching makes it worse.. She doesn't want to turn it off.

She has MAJOR sensory seeking behavior - moves constantly, licks everything, bang into walls, pounds her head and elbows - just to name a few things...

She has been in a toddler bed for over a year. But DH bought a loft bed (way too big for her) which she sleeps under inside a tent. I don't recall this starting right when we got the bed, but perhaps she doesn't like to be so enclosed.

I really don't want to start the co-sleeping thing. It just seems to last too long once it's started. DS was 9 before he could fall asleep on his own..

I will try the lulluby. I have some good cd's and she used to enjoy listening when she fell asleep. The CD player is in with uncle currently so I will find another for the kids room. We do have a night light, but I think the checklist is also a good idea. She enjoys process and would like checking things off.

She has been missing school and gymnastics, but this has been going on longer than the winter break.

Thanks for all your suggestions. Sounds like mostly this is a normal phase and I just need to find something that helps while we wait for this one to pass.

[Kasey]

Oldest DS is a bit of sensory seeker, in that he loves to be in motion, flipping off things, climbing, anything. Thankfully It has gotten alot better, by giving him those outlets during the day.
I agree TV makes it worse for us as well.
So about 1 1/2 hrs before bed we go some kind of physical activity, running around, wrestling with daddy, an exercise video with me, we mix it up. Then we do a nice warm shower and books, then bed. helps alot more then the TV.
It is frustrating but you will figure out what works best for her.
Getting off schedule makes it worse for us, so the holidays were rougher, I think he was happy to go back to school. Last night bed time was a dream!

[MoscowGirl]

Our DD was the best sleeper until about age 3. I would just kiss “good night” and turn off the light. But close to age 3 she developed fears (of dark, of monsters, of open blinds at night…) even after we introduced the night light in her room. And it was a genuine fear. I’ve never been brave enough to attempt “crying it out” but a couple of times I left her in the room for a minute or two, she would be afraid and hide under blankets. So either I or DH has been holding her hand while she is falling asleep and we have the lullaby music on.

At age 3, she would want to chat with me while I am holding her hand. I read 1 trick in the Parenting magazine – to warn her that I would move away from her 1 step further every time she wants to look around or chat. She learned very quickly and on our most “talkative” nights I would not be further than 3 steps away from her.

Now at almost 5y.o. our DD is not afraid of monsters, we don’t have to close the blinds or make sure the closet doors are shut all the way, and she does not have a need to chat. But we do have the same routine of holding her hand. I am sure we could work on breaking this routine. But on most days I look forward to this routine and our bond, and it’s the best part of the day - to hold and kiss her hand, to sit in peace and reflect on my own thoughts. Since she gave up her naps at pre-school, she falls asleep quite fast. I am sure this routine is not for most, but it does work for us.

As far as TV watching, on some nights I allow DD to unwind and watch Sprouts or Noggin. Again, at age 3-4 I had to give her warning signs “only for 10 minutes and I will let you know when it’s almost over,” “it’s 5 minutes left,” “it’s 1 minute left and I am coming upstairs.” Your post reminded me how easier it gets with them growing. Our DD is going to be 5 at the end of this month and we don’t have to give her warnings about TV anymore.

3 is a tough age, hang in there!!!

[lovestruck]

This may sound really simplistic, however is there any chance that since her brother is sleeping in her room that she doesn't want to go to bed until he does?

When my boys started sharing a room, this happened. the one three years younger refused to go to bed earlier then his big brother. It was crazy. Now theya re finally back in separate rooms (after several years) and this isn't an issue any more.

Just a thought.

[ddahl]

I just read your las tpost and I had to take down our tent as well. Our problems signifigantly improved after the tent came down.