[MustangLippy]

I posted this question on a thread that AngelKisses began but rather than hijack her thread I thought I'd post afresh.

For those of you who have kids with ADHD or ADD with impulsivity what were your children like when they were around 3-4 years of age? Did you know in your gut that they weren't just an "enthusiastic" or "exuberant" 3 year old?

DD is nearly 4 and going through cognitive testing to get a baseline IQ before further testing for her developmental and behaviorial issues (she's been in OT and ST for the last couple of years). I am beginning to think she is ADHD or ADD with impulsivity and if she is then I will be so thankful that it is *only* that (and I don't say that to belittle those living with it, its just that some of the other possible diagnoses that have been thrown around are more frightening).

However, if you've been here you understand how you start casting around for answers even tho the medical professionals tell you there is nothing they can tell you until elementary school.

Thanks
Angela

[ChristyQO]

I had a feeling long before DS was 3 that he was more than the "average" boy in his activities. He was extremely active and curious. More so than others he was around. Also, VERY bright.
At 3, he required less sleep than others, could not stay focused on toys or games for long (or even TV) and was always on the GO!!! Had to touch everything.
You could (and still can) see the wheels turning in his head. Always needed to know how things work. This was one of his hyper-focuses. Still is.
He was always just more active/exuberant than others. He does not have hyperactivity, but impulsivity.
Good books to read are Driven to Distraction and the Out of Sync Child. It might help narrow things down for you...
HTH

[KarynB]

Hello,

Yes, I knew he was not just "being a boy" as everyone tried to tell me. He was beyond impulsive, and had trouble realizing consequences. For him, pushing a ten yr old was "the same" as pushing a one year old.

He was diagnosed at age 4 with ADHD (among other things) but we chose not to medicate until recently (he was 8).

Go with your gut - you know your kid.

[KiraLin]

I have known from the day I met my dd (then 9 months)that she was hyper. She spent the first three hours I was with her holding on to my hands and bouncing her little body up and down without stopping...The first thing my father (who travelled with me on trip one)said to me on the way back to the hotel was, "she seemed a little hyper". I said, "gee ya think?!" She remains incredibly hyper to this day at age 5. I also knew from the get go that it was beyond normal (I am a child psychologist) despite some of my well meaning friends and family insisting it was just her age. Her international adoption doc laughed when I told her that my family thought I was jumping the gun to call her ADHD at 2 and 3 and said what I had..."ADHD...gee ya think?!"

You can try meds earlier that school age but you must keep in mind that they have not been studied in this young of a population. DD has her first med trial at 4 as I figured I didn't want to wait if it was very helpful (I have seen in my work a very small percentage have the "miracle pill response...rare but does happen) or not so much. On the first dose of the ritalin class of drugs dd developed a very rare and significantly negative side effect....so no more ritalin class meds. (in all the kids (hundreds) I have worked with I have never seen it before) For the adderall class meds she had some improvement in attention and impulsivity but also became far more prone to extended meltdowns (50+ minutes) and lost 2 pounds off her already tiny frame within a month. So for dd cost and benifit did not make it worth continuing at that time. There are several other classes of drugs that are options but none have been around as long as the stimulents and I am not comfortable trying them while she is so young.
In the meantime we have persued working with a homeopath but without any luck so far. Her ped. and develomental ped. are both on board with what we've done so far and with trying the homeopath for now until she is a bit older. She is in a VERY structured preK class that she is functioning well in with support. We will revisit the issue in the spring as I would prefer to have her in this setting when trying something new.

With regard to non-medical interventions there are plenty of things that can be done before school age. My dd's preschool is part of her IEP and all of what she does there is considered theraputic (some stuff more than others obviously). She is a different child from when she began at age 3 although she still has miles to go. Yoga is a great activity to teach many things that can help kids slow down. My dd has done therapeutic riding. She is far more competent at the barn than I ever imagined a 5 year old could be (that said she still does things impulsively that make my heart stop...like running right under a very large and rather skittish horse...who thankfully ignored her).

I could go on and on about this topic so I am sorry if this is to long but I hope it helps. Feel free to ask any questions or pm me. Good luck.

[Bamamom07]

Hi! I'm a mom of twin boys who are now 21 yrs old. While they both seemed pretty active compared to the other little boys I'd been around at that point, little R was extremely on the go. He was very colicky as a baby, needed LOTS of holding and rocking back and forth. Lots of swing time when I wasn't holding. Bounciest baby boy I still have ever seen. As a toddler, he could ransack a room in just a couple minutes, while his twin could be happy sitting with one toy and studying it an unusually long time. R was constantly on the move. Running, jumping, wrapping himself around my leg, insisting on being carried, constantly jabbering. He also "hand flapped" much of the time. He often flapped one hand while drawing or eating with the other. He could run in circles in our apartment for an hour at a time as a 2 yr old, usually flapping, often saying, "I run, I run, I run!" over and over. He was EXTREMELY high maintenance. In elementary school, he had trouble staying still in class. He frequently didn't finish assignments, tests, etc. He would do maybe half, then attention would shift, or he'd read half the question and guess what the answer should be. But if the teacher read him the questions, he could answer correctly. Math was ridiculously difficult. He would flare up in anger very quickly, but then calm back down pretty easily. I made him take lots of showers to calm that hot temper. Things I tried to do to help him- books on tape/cd, excellent for increasing attention span. Limit tv- it encourages short little attention spans. He learned chess and joined a club where he could compete and enjoy developing that skill - chess is excellent attention builder. Enrolled him in karate- again, it reinforces concepts of self discipline and attention. Growing up I really had to stay on him about doing anything he was supposed to much more than his brother. Somethings just didn't seem to click for him. However, now he is in 4th year of college, doing really well- grades will probably never be perfect- but he is majoring in social work, planning a masters in business, and hopes to build a home for troubled boys. Currently he does work with hospitalized troubled kids. He has been a real challenge to raise, not quite wanting to slow down long enough to consider consequences, but he has also been an incredible joy. An extreme bundle of energy and a lot of fun to be around. Everybody who knows him loves him. I'd say, where God created him with more challenges for me as a parent, he also blessed him with extra lovable qualities, probably as a "survival mechanism"!

[angelkisses0102]

Let’s see…DD at three…inquisitive, curious, talkative, active (but not in a hyper sense just busy, busy, busy.) She wanted to see everything, touch everything, and know everything about everything 'right now'…still does. I read the Spirited Child and that was/is her. Remember the Family Circus cartoon when the little boy (Billy?) would have to go from point A to point B but it would take him forever because he would stop to play in the sandbox, pet the cat, play with a toy, ride his bike, investigate a plant, chase a butterfly, climb a tree…and on and on…that was and still is DD. She notices everything…she was/is a busybody…she is in everyone’s business…not in a bad way…now. She is a 'stop and smell the roses' kind of kid!

She does not walk…she runs. We enrolled her in Tae Kwon Do before age 4 to teach her discipline…she did that for over a year. She could/can concentrate if something interests her…but sitting still she can’t do. She fidgets, picks at her thumb (awful site btw) and falls out of chairs, off furniture, walks into walls, poles, counters, etc…twice so far this year she has fallen out of her chair at school. Just this week, I sent her into her room (about 10 yards from the kitchen where we were) to get a hair ponytail holder…about 5 minutes later she wasn’t out yet…she totally got distracted and forgot why she even went in her room to begin with.

Up until last year she would take things from school, pre-K/aftercare, or other kids…why? Because she wanted the item so she just took them….she still does this with DS. I would not call it stealing because that was not stealing…although we had many discussions about stealing. She interrupts us all the time too.

DS is also impulsive…but his is more related to his SPD, potential alcohol impact, developmental delays, and probably ADHD as well. He has so many other things going on getting him DXed as ADHD will not be easy nor clear cut…but for his IEP we are simply working on getting him listed as OHI (Other Health Impaired.) Those are magic words in IEP land. Anyway, DS displayed more negative behaviors at that age…running away from me, no fear of getting hurt while bumping, crashing, climbing, spinning and running (sensory seeker.) His IEP still has that he must be watched at all times even though he is maturing out of that…and OT really has helped him slow down on his sensory seeking behaviors. He will act before thinking or even if he knows he shouldn’t do something he does it and then has remorse…but he simply can not control himself…totally different than DD.

For both kids I knew it was beyond 'normal' but with DD she was able to cope until she started 1st garde last year...then the social issues commonly associated with ADD/ADHD surfaced. Those we have been addressing for about a year and she has progressed nicely. This school year she is in a very tough academic program and even though she is gifted...she can no longer compensate. DS...well we have been addressing his various issues since we brought him home at 8 months old.

Good luck!

[mdaisyq]

When my daughter started to walk at 18 months old, she climbed onto the tops of the tables in our house and danced around. New rule, if you got out of a chair, it had to be laid flat on the floor - our house looked like a murder scene for years.

If I ran an errand with her, she would unbuckle the strap in the cart, leap out, dash through the store doors and into the store parking lot. I stopped running errands with her.

But, I had to take her with me when I picked up my older kids at school. She would run into the school, the parking lot, or across the nearby baseball fields. If I tried to hold her from running, she was like the Tasmanian Devil in my arms - kicking and flailing to get out of my clutches.

When she was 2.5, we moved. When I looked at prospective houses, I carefully examined the amount of road traffic near the potential house and thought about what would happen if I left her buckled in her car seat while I took a bag of groceries into the house. We now live on a semi dead end street.

Do people comment about how "active" your child is? Do they say, "wow, how do you do it?" Do you wonder how on earth your kid would make it through Kindergarten?

One myth is that all kids with ADD/ADHD are unable to sit still to watch a movie or play a game, etc. If our daughter is interested in something, she can spend a long time doing it, and will stay very focused. She is into very involved imaginative play that require building things from boxes and paper that require a lot of planning and organization.

Another myth is that all kids with ADD/ADHD have a hard time going to sleep at night. Our daughter sleeps like a log and always has. In fact, from day one, she is the only one of my kids who has slept through the night without screaming for the first few years they were home.

If you think your child has ADHD, ask your ped. If they are wishy-washy, ask for a referral to a specialist.

[KiraLin]

mdaisyq-

love the kindergarten comment...I have threatened for years to send dd to school the first day of K with a shirt that says, "Just be thankful I'm not a twin!"...we'll see in Sept !

BamaMom07

-thanks for the stories from the "other side" (grown)...my dd to is blessed with those "extra loveable" qualities as I think most of our "active" kids are.

Angelkisses (Karen)

-thanks for contributing as always. Glad to hear the kiddos are growing and thriving...they could not have been blessed with a better mother! You are exactly what they both need and deserve!

opps dd is needing my intervention...thanks to everyone else as well, more later if I can get a chance...

[coachmom]

give Omegas! that worked really well for my child.. Nordic Naturals makes a good one and its strawberry or lemon.. the 3-6-9 kind... they need at least 1000 mgs a day(2 pills). My kids chew them..
it helps their brain a lot.. and you could also grind up flax seeds into foods
Coachmom

[MustangLippy]

the thing I am struggling with is that DD isn't necessarily more active than other 3 year olds its what she is active doing - which is always something which is against the rules. Playing with her brothers toys and invariably breaking them (she has no respect for other peoples space, belongings or feelings), playing in a drawer that is off limits, climbing on furniture that is off limits.

And while she is doing it she's making noise. Constantly. If she's not talking she's "singing". I can't really say its singing because really its just mindless, out-of-tune hooting noises. Constantly.

Occasionally I see someone with a child with ADHD or ADD mention the noise but its always one of the last things they list whereas with my DD it would be the first thing I'd list because I have never known a child who is constantly making noise. And cannot stop even when repeatedly asked to please be quiet.

And yes, there is the impulsiveness. If DD wants it she goes for it. If she wants to say something she says it. No thinking going on there first.

And she does have a short attention span and is very easily distracted. But so are a lot of three year olds right?

How at the end of the day do the professionals decided between ADHD or ADD or alcohol related neurological problems. That is what I do not understand.

[KiraLin]

Mustang,

As a parent and professional I can tell you that no diagnoisis is cut and dry. Someone on one of these boards had a great table that showed that Alcohol related issues overlap symptom wise with many other of the diagnoses that kids get (ADHD, ODD, PTSD, etc).

My dd still has no label except ADHD but in the words of the neuropsychologist that evaluated her "that is just the tip of the iceberg"

DD certainly meets the "criteria for ADHD" but her med response is not typical...this may or may not be because of alcohol related issues...but it could also be truama issues or some other "disorder" per say. She has some features typical to alcohol exposure but others that just do not fit. Likely it is a combination of things. Bottom line is that it is certainly complicated and defies an easy label. Luckily I believe the only thing labels are good for is getting services (ie making an insurance company or school pay for some service).

Each child has their own specific difficulties that must be addressed. I have been aware of typical difficulties that come up for kids with alcohol issues, truama issues, etc....and adopted a plan for the worst hope for the best approach. It has driven the school a bit nuts but I don't want to miss something (although I have an will I am sure...) as much as is possible.

My advice is to keep in mind that our kids by the nature of their background have more going on than most. Pre-natal alcohol exposure changes the brain but so does early truama...

I wish I had an easy answer for you but there really isn't one. I will say dd has pleasantly suprised most of the "experts" that have followed her. Good luck and keep asking quesitons.

[angelkisses0102]

http://www.betterendings.org/Overlap...cteristics.pdf

I think this may be what Kiralin was speaking of....

KiraLin~
Blood pressure meds...have you heard/considered those for your DD? I have read elsewhere that they are used for alcohol exposed kids with add/ahhd? Something we will keep in mind if/when we need them for DS...probably more when rather than if.

[MustangLippy]

Oh, wow AngelKisses and Kiralin, this is a great table. I am going to send this to the educational psychologist we're working with for DD.

I'm always eager to learn from others who are cutting a swathe ahead of us, so thank you very much everyone for sharing!

[KiraLin]

Thanks AngelKisses...(check your pm box)

[momatlast]

We absolutely knew--even at age 2.

In fact, based on her description in our referral documents, it seems the orphanage doctor was hinting about this even earlier.