[sak9645]

Russian medical reports are very different from American ones. The whole concept of physical and mental illness is different.

Just because there is a fancy name on a medical report does NOT mean that there is, necessarily, something that we would consider an illness. At the same time, something that would worry us in the U.S. might not appear on the Russian medical report at all.

Also, alas, prejudice sometimes enters into the way a child is diagnosed. A child of Roma (Gypsy) heritage might be labeled mentally subnormal, for example. A child born with an extra couple of toes might be labeled as mentally defective, as well.

All in all, it is very important to show the medical NOT just to your local pediatrician, who may never have seen a Russian adoption medical report, but to an adoption medicine specialist who has seen hundreds of them, especially from Eastern Europe.

There are some very fine adoption medicine specialists and clinics in the U.S. Adoption medicine is now a recognized section of the American Academy of Pediatrics. Even if the adoption medicine specialists aren't in your state, and you won't be using them as your general pediatrician, they will be happy to review your referral reports, pictures, videos, etc. for a modest fee, and discuss their perceptions with you. While they can't guarantee that their conclusions will always be 100% accurate, since they haven't actually seen the child, they can usually tell you whether there is anything suggestive of a real concern.

Sharon

[britfish]

I believe in Russia when you are treated for any type of mental issue (depression, anxiety, etc.) you go on a mental health reistry, no matter how minor it is. Maybe the orphanage can get you further info., if not now they often can give you further when you are there visiting.

[Karen in MT]

I bet things will be fine. I have 3 beautiful, bright and happy adult children as old as 32 now. Not one of them shows any signs of trouble and their Father had at times been diagnosed with mental illness here in the states, ranging from major depression to schizophrenia. He has now passed away. I believe his illness was in large part due to his up-bringing and abuse of alcohol (I have prayed my children would never have troubles in this area.) I'm sure that in many cases that holds true in Russia too. The posts here were great and reflect my thoughts as well. My DH and I are very concerned with the FA and other issues as well, as we are currently reviewing referrals. I tend to only go with my head and not my heart! He leans toward only the heart! I wish I was a little more that way to tell the truth. If that little girl has a hold of your heart, I'd go forward with it and pray hard. Best of luck. We are for all of you! -Karen

[Jessi_76]

I don't have too much time this morning to respond to each post individually, but I would like to give a HUGE collective thank you to all of you. Your help and advice has been invaluable.

We have accepted the referral and will be meeting the girl and the boy - our son and daughter, in just a few days!!! Woo hoo!!!!

The following, just so this may help anyone else in this situation, is what our agency was able to find out:

Here is actually what we found:
Lida and the director called to the Civilian registry office of the place where girl's mother lives.
They were told that girl's mother SLIGHT mental development delay because she has never gone to school, she can't read, can't write.
Girl's mother lives in a very small, remote and very poor (that's important) village in the Siberia, neither she (girl's mother) nor her siblings ever studied at school, her mother is absolutely illiterate, she is so called "pedagogically neglected", but she IS socially adapted and the norms of her behavior are within social standards. No one in this family girl's mother including has NEVER had any mental diseases!!! From mental point of view girl's mother is healthy, just can't read and write.
As for this formulating "Invalid 1 group", in our country the adults who can't read and write, illiterate, they are officially given invalidity because this was they get much more money as hardship allowance, see above: girl's mother lives in very poor place and this money helps her survive. So, in fact, and the chief doctor proves this, there is nothing to worry about, the girl is very healthy.



We did also have our IA Dr. at CHOP review and she seemed very pleased with the health, overall, of the child.

SO EXCITING!!!!! Whjile it's terribly sad and breaks my heart to think that people live such a poor life like this, it is just the relief we needed to allay our own fears.

Thank you and have a wonderful weekend!!!!
xoxoxo

[MamaChinch]

Good news ~~ Jessi!! Have a wonderful trip and keep us posted if you can! Safe Travales and prayers are with you!

[momraine]

Wonderful! Enjoy your meeting! We can't wait to hear all about it and eventually see pictures of these kiddos at home with you!!!

[lovestruck]

Russia has the scariest diagnosis doesn't it.

So glad that it was able to get sorted out and things are looking bright!!

[proudmommyof 2]

Congrats!

Are you near Pittsburgh? We're just north of Pittsburgh.. I know it's off topic, but just curious

[mommyto4]

So glad to hear all worked out, enjoy your trip of a lifetime!

[GCS]

Good news! And thanks for the clarification for all of us. You never know when this info will help someone else out later on!

All the best and happy travels!

[angelkisses0102]

Great news! Have a wonderful trip!!

And don't forget...take too many pictures!!!!

[amyfk]

Jessi,

I am glad the agency and your doctor were able to calm your fears. My agency wasnt as helpful in getting information for me on referrals in question, so we had to turn one or two down because we had inconclusive data.
I am surprised they would label someone as "invalid" because they dont have education, or access to education in their area. I guess that's why we have to learn what's behind the terminology of this stuff.
Best of luck and glad for the good news,
Amy K, NJ

[Jessi_76]

Good morning, everyone, and thank you again!! AAAHHH...we're SO excited!!

Cyndi ~ Thank you. Because we'll be in rural Siberia for most of the trip, or in transit, we will not have a laptop this time, and probably won't use the comptuer lab in the Krasnoyarsk Hotel on our one night there, but I will surely try to post on May 26 (after we wake up ), or May 27 at the very latest.

Lorraine ~ Thank you!! It will be so much fun to join all of you in posting pictures here after the kiddos are home.

Lovestruck ~ Russia sure does, and things are looking beyond GREAT right now. Her Apgar scores were 9 at birth, she's only had one cold, she is just incredibly healthy! We're beyond lucky, although we surely didn't feel lucky the day we thought she may have a serious mental disease. Things work out though...the way they are supposed to, I believe that!

Katrina ~ Thank you. Nope...we are nowhere near Pittsburgh. We are just north of Allentown, on the far east side of the state.

mommyto4 ~ Thank you!!!

Christina~ Thank you!! It is wonderful news, and I surely hope that someone's mind will be eased in the future by what we have learned this week. I know our IA Dr. will as they have NEVER seen that dx before, and they are a very large, highly-acclaimed program.

angelkisses~ I PROMISE to take too many pictures. As we all know, there's no such thing.

Amy ~ Thank you!!! I know we are really very, very lucky. Our agency worked SO quickly to get us answers and they were even surprised with all of the birthfamily information given to us. They said they have never had a family with that much available before. I have nothing but RAVE reviews for our wonderful agency who has been nothing less than spectacular so far. It really IS crazy how to us, "invalid" would mean one thing - like I said previously, we were thinking about a bad case of scizophrenia, and then we find out they classify her as that because she's completely illiterate and the classification helps her get government money (I guess like welfare), to live since she is very poor. It's all very sad. I cannot stop thinking about our daughter's birthmom and it breaks my heart. She had a c-section and she will forever have this emotional and physical scar to remind her of this daughter she couldn't keep because of her circumstance. It's VERY sad.


Well...again, THANK YOU!!! We have loads of packing to do this weekend, and maybe a little more shopping if we realize I missed something yesterday (hopefully not).

Have a great weekend everyone!
xoxoxo
Jessi

[RussianJen]

Hello all!

I know this was already explained, but I thought for further information - it might help to share what I know, from living in Russia for 4 years.

In Russia ANY psychological, neurological, developmental, and/or unexplainable physical problem is diagnosed as 'mental disorder'. Our orphanage is class VIII, which is for kids with mental disorders/diseases. Every single one of them is labeled 'invalid, group I, II, or even III.' Scary, eh? It's labels. Marxist/Darwinian teaching for the past 80 years has done its work - anyone and everyone with something we don't like or can't explain must be kept from thinking they're as useful as everyone else. This isn't *my* observation, these are words that have been said to me!
I must say any of the kids in our orphanage could make it just fine in society. Every single one of them has been neglected or abused, but, contrary to how they've been labeled, they're incredibly bright and capable. Actually that's the thing we argue about the most, with the caretakers and teachers, and director. They maintain that these kids are mental and most should be locked up. We keep insisting it's the labels they put on them and the low expectations (combined with neglect). Anyways, it's a long story.

I just wanted everyone here to read that 99% of the time (In my opinion and experience), Russian diagnoses of 'mental disorder' are debatable. When our kids run away or disobey too often, they send them to a mental hospital to be drugged and locked up. The 'treatment' is inhumane. The kids come back like zombies and walk around all messed up for a couple of weeks. One boy actually was overdosed with some sort of something and never was the same. These are MY kids. This is MY story. I'm not making it up!

When I ask them what it was like there, they remember fragments. They stutter. Most wet the bed for a few days after returning. They have trouble processing, sleep for many hours, and the sunlight hurts their eyes. It's like a creepy movie, and it makes me wanna scream. This is 'treatment' to 'fix' mentally unstable kids. Gee, wonder why the system is all screwed up?

So keep in mind that disobedience and rambunctiousness in kids is also seen as mental disorder.

Don't mean to write a book; I just wanted you to know. Just the mere fact that a kid is an orphan is reason enough to label him 'mental', because obviously, if his parents didn't want him or didn't have the wherewithal to stay alive long enough to raise him, he's got mental issues.

*sigh*. This is the truth. I watched them do a 'mental health' evaluation on one of my buddies once.

They asked him what his favorite color was (he said red). Then they asked him if he likes to play outside. He said yes. They asked him if he has trouble sleeping at night, and he said no, not usually.

They declared him mentally unstable, and in need of 'treatment'. When I asked what in the world those three questions proved, they said 'it was the way he answered. We're professionals. We can tell.'

So, they started pumping my buddy full of goodness-knows-what. That went on his permanent record, and the following summer when he and a group of boys got it into their heads to run off and see how far they could get, he was sent to the mental hospital for the remainder of the summer, 'cause he was 'disturbed.'

For mental, physical, and any other handicaps, there are 3 groups - group I allows you to work but you get paid a pension; group II allows you to work with certain restrictions, and you get a pension; group III means you're not allowed to work and you get a full pension. The sub-categories are endless within these 3 groups.
Just FYI - not knowing is the hardest. If you have any questions re: all this, I can do my best to answer!

-RussianJen

[MatveysMama]

Whenever I see there is a post from RussianJen, I know there is going to be some insightful and useful information presented. Thank you so much, Jen, for taking the time to educate us out of your experiences. It makes me feel so grateful that our son is home, and it gives me a burden to pray ever more for you and the ministry God has given you. You are a friend and help to these precious kiddos who are forgotten by so many.

Jessi - Our son is from Kraz! We will be praying for you guys. Even though you will only be in Kraz the one day this trip, I imagine trip 2 you will be there longer. Absolutely, if you have a chance, get to the German restaurant across from the Kraz hotel. Best food I have EVER had! We were in Kraz in June and August. Beautiful, hot weather and beautiful country! We felt very comfortable and relaxed walking around the city. In the summer there is music blaring in the square in front of the hotel until all hours of the night. Get a room toward the back if possible. It is cooler, darker, and ever so much quieter.

Have a great trip!

Melissa