[dnrindal]

My daughter came home at 2.5 and was somewhat potty trained (she never had a dirty diaper and "produced" every time she went). BUT, when she came home, she lost it all because I think it was something she could control. She didn't become fully daytime potty trained until she was over 3.5.
Bottom line-----kids will learn when they learn. And our kids have had tough starts in life. Go with your gut and work on it as you can. Take care and good luck!

[amyfk]

Thanks again for all of your help. I think we'll try to give this potty training a shot in the early summer. I dont know what to expect, but we'll try it.
Amy K, NJ

[sak9645]

I believe strongly that your pediatrician is wrong.

I have a child, whom I adopted from China. From the very first, it was clear that she was bright and cooperative, and singularly lacking in adoption "issues". Still, she was not on your pediatrician's schedule, nor should she have been.

As she approached 2.75 years of age, she enjoyed having me read "Once Upon a Potty" as she sat on a potty. She knew what the potty was for. She knew what the toilet was for, and wasn't afraid to be near it when it was flushed. She had a toilet ring and sometimes sat on it. But she was absolutely not toilet trained, and showed little interest in being toilet trained.

She also wasn't very independent in some other ways. As an example, while most of her friends dressed themselves, at least to some extent, she never wanted to try. She was perfectly happy to have me dress her. I didn't make the connection, then, between the lack of toilet training and the lack of independence skills, but I see it clearly now.

At around age 2.75, I placed Becca in a full-day preschool run by a local synagogue. It served kids from age two until their fifth birthday (or kindergarten, if that came sooner).

The school had one mixed-age class. There were no rules about toilet training. Kids could come trained or untrained, regardless of age. There was one big unisex bathroom for the kids, with toilets, urinals, potties, and changing tables. The kids were allowed to wander in and out, and often stood around talking to their friends as they used the facilities.

If a parent demanded that the school follow a certain toilet regimen, such as use of a sticker chart to reward "performance", the teachers would reluctantly comply. However, the director preferred NOT to use such methods, but would simply tell parents, "Every child leaves here using the toilet." And she was right. It was truly amazing.

Independence and self-reliance were emphasized. As an example, in the summer, the kids changed into bathing suits for water play nearly every day. The teachers had a sprinkler, a water table, and so on outside for them to use.

The teachers purposely remained on one side of the classroom, while the kids undressed and dressed by their cubbies. The teachers would say, "Ok, get into your bathing suits" or "Time to get back into your clothes", and that was all, unless there was a specific request for help. Then, a teacher would very willingly show the child how to tie a bow or give whatever help was needed.

If the teachers saw that there was a problem a lot of kids were having, it would become the subject of more formal teaching at other times in the day. The classroom had "Dressy Bessy" dolls for practicing buttoning, bow tying, and so on, and they were sometimes used.

The kids quickly learned that standing around whining was not a rewarded behavior. What was rewarded was self-reliance. A self-reliant child would figure out that his/her problem was distinguishing the back from the front of a tee shirt or a pair of elastic waist shorts. After trying to decide by himself/herself, he/she would go to the teacher and use words, however inadequately, to define the problem. The teacher would then give help and TEACH the child how to do the necessary chore independently -- for example, to look for the label, which would always be in the back.

Interestingly, within two weeks of coming to the preschool, Becca announced that she wanted to wear underwear, and that she would not have any accidents in the daytime. And that is exactly the way things went. And it didn't take all that much longer for her to master dressing from the skin out. Soon she was one of the fastest dressers in the class.

At that point, I put her in charge of the whole toilet training thing. I showed her where the underwear and pullups lived, and said that she could pick what she wanted to wear at night. She chose pullups for about a year.

Then, one day, at about 3.75, she said she wanted to try underwear at night. It was a weekday, and I suggested that she wait till the weekend, as I expected a wet bed. She did so.

I told her that I would awaken her once at night to use the toilet, so that she would have less of a problem staying dry. And that's what I did. She didn't awaken fully, but I held her under the arms and marched her to the bathroom. When seated on the toilet, she urinated reflexively. I then wiped her and marched her back to bed. She awoke dry in the morning, and never had even one nighttime accident, even when I stopped taking her to the bathroom at night.

What made all this happen? Was it simply a coincidence that that she became "ready" right after she started preschool? I doubt it. I believe that it was a combination of watching other kids demonstrate "big kid" behaviors like using the toilet, and being rewarded for choosing independent, self-reliant actions that were unrelated to bodily functions.

Parents, especially first time parents, often encourage dependence, not independence. This is particularly true of adoptive parents, who worry a lot about attachment and, thus, WANT their children to learn to depend on them. In fact, kids trained to be independent and self-reliant can still be very well attached. They simply have an easier time transitioning to new situations, such as school, camp, etc. because they feel empowered to do a good deal for themselves AND to ask for help when the situation warrants.

My daughter, now 12, recently won a school essay contest, and became one of four children chosen to go, with a chaperone, from their Maryland school to a small, rather underprivileged town on an Indian reservation in northern Montana, to talk to the kids about similarities and differences in cultures, and to explore Glacier National Park. She just got home from the trip -- exhausted, but happy and "settled". She was glad to see me, but not in a "needy" way.

I missed Becca when she was gone, but I never worried that she would be homesick or frightened. I knew that she would cope with unfamiliar places and routines, would make good decisions about eating and wearing warm clothes when it was cold, would be about as polite as a 12 year old can be, and so on. I even knew that she'd come home with the same number of socks that she started out with; she has taught herself, over the years, very good organizational skills. In recent years, she has always packed her own suitcase, kept track of her own homework assignments, etc. I am ready to help if needed, but she is getting so good at these things that I really have life easy!

Also, parents tend to forget that peer learning is very important in all stages of childhood. From toddlers to teenagers, kids learn almost as much from their agemates as from their parents. That is why it is important for parents, and especially parents of "only" children, to put their kids in situations where a GOOD sort of peer learning can occur.

I think we're all aware of the BAD things that kids can pick up, very quickly, from their peers. If one child cusses, all his/her friends will suddenly develop potty mouth. If a child is raised among kids who deal with anger by hitting, he/she will most likely learn to hit. And so on.

But what we parents have to acknowledge is that kids learn GOOD behaviors from peers, too. And we need to give up the notion that kids should learn things only from parents and teachers. The fact is that peers are equally important in a child's life, and that the lessons kids learn from peers are often the ones that stick with them.

I don't think that kids should be toilet trained on a rigid timetable. I don't like the idea of a pediatrician insisting that a child be trained at 2.5. Some kids will be ready at 2, some at 2.5, some at 3. Late bloomers shouldn't be hassled.

And I don't believe in toilet training that basically trains the parent. Too many parents think that their children are toilet trained, because they put the child on the potty at half hour intervals and the child "goes" on some of these occasions. The only person "trained" in such a setting is the parent who watches the clock.

I think that children will tell you when they are ready to use the toilet -- IF they have had adequate experience observing other children and have been placed into an environment that fosters independence and self-reliance in other areas of their life.

I also believe, strongly, that the process of toilet training shouldn't involve constant reminders and constant accidents. The child who is truly ready won't need constant parental reminders, and won't create mountains of dirty laundry. The child who watches his/her peers and also develops a sense of what he/she can and cannot do will know exactly when he/she is ready to say, "I'm a big kid now, and I think I can use underwear."

Sharon

[beckyww]

My mom was a "train them before they're two" type. It worked for her as a stay-home mom with kids far apart in age. It was not working for me with 3 girls in 4.5 years. I tried training my eldest at 2. Washed lots of wet pants. Quit. Finally bought Barney underwear at 2 years, 9 months and that did it for her - or so I thought. Because my next two girls also trained themselves at the same age.

I didn't see any kids in any of their kinder classes in diapers.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Becky
The Woodworth Family in Beautiful San Antonio TX

[amyfk]

Thank you ladies both for your help and your insight. Perhaps I will try over the summer to work with Joanna. I will have to call the preschool where she is going to see if she needs to be fully toilet trained. It waits to be seen if she will start trying to use the potty at home after she watches her peers do so. We havent had that sort of situation crop up just yet.
Thanks have a good weekend,
Amy K, NJ

[randloar]

I guess I am one of the people that pushed.......I didn't start the potty training (she did), but once it started, I really didn't want it to be long and drawn out, so I had to work through the stressed out first few days, and lots of laundry for that time......hence 'pushing' by not going back to the diapers, but for me personally it felt like going back and forth b/t diapers and underwear would be too confusing to her, so we just hung in there and maybe got lucky......

Our DD (noew 2 years 4 months) started potty training around 3 weeks ago, when she found her undies in the drawer that we bought months ago as a means to pacify her while getting big brother what he needed from the store. She said she wanted to wear them, and I told her that meant she would not be wearing her diapers and had to use her potty now. We went through it all, and she wanted the undies......so, potty training commenced that day.

Our method did involve quite a few wet pants for 1.5 days (as well as a large quantity of liquids to help her have more chances to 'remember' how this is a new/different deal and to really reinforce her tuning into what was happening). This process is not for the faint of heart.......it was a loooong first day, but I actually saw it 'click' for her on the second day and all at once she became aware of her need to go and started telling me she needed to go (at this point, we didn't always still get there in time, but she started feeling the need....which is a big step). By day 4 I would say she told me almost always, with a few reminders scattered throughout the day.

Now, the only reminders she gets is when she is engrossed in something, playing outside with friends, things that distract her still. She now is a champ and tells me when she needs to go, and can hold it for longer and longer during the day (which I am hoping will translate to better control at night, but have no foundation to think the two relate!).

We went straight to undies at night to see what happened...only 3-4 nighttime accidents so far, but I think we are still in the honeymoon phase, so am expecting more to come. The first week I did get her up about an hour after bed and an hour before she normally wakes to try to go, but now am only trying as I go to bed (about 1-2 hours after her). And we do cutoff the liquids about 1-1.5 hours before bed (but we have so much during the day, it isn't even noticed).

One thing we also did do was co-sleep during her first few days. We have not really done much of that since she came home, but I felt that she was pretty stressed out by the process and that might be a way to help her. It also allowed me on the first few nights to swoop her up faster when she started moving around (and from what I have read, when they sorta wake between sleep cycles is when they are apt to go), I took her to the potty and now can get her to go while sorta asleep still.

I didn't think we would be hitting this with her so quickly, but have to admit that I am looking forward to saying we are diaper free!

[karla-k]

Our bio son was 3.5 before he potty trained, and then did it in a week all on his own. He just was not interested before then.

I did do the treat thing, except that he is allergic to corn syrup and chocolate, so candy was out. I bought a bag of tiny toy dinosaurs and kept it on the kitchen counter for months. He would see them and ask about them, I would just matter of factly tell him that when he went Pee or Poop on the potty he could have one. The day he "dropped poop" in the toilet, he came running to me proud as punch and asked for his dinosaur!