[kdk545]

I am at my wits end with my 4 3/4 year old son and dont know what to do about what seems to be impulsive behavior. At this point Im wondering what would help-- a child psychologist? Physical or occupational therapy? Stricter discipline/punishments? Having him tested for some medical/psychological issue???

(We adopted him at 2 years old, 2 3/4 years ago.)

BTW: He has always been described as "spirited", "overly curious", "rambunctious" etc by family and preschool people.

It seems that no matter how many times I tell him not to do something, he does it anyway over and over and over again. My husband and mine's common refrain is
''he doesnt bleeping listen!'' It seems my son doesnt care about the consequences, he just does what he feels like doing at that moment, even though he knows what he is doing is wrong.

Today is just one day-long example of the kinds of things he has done, after being told not to: We were at a park and he was climbing over rocks in the water. I told him not to put his feet in the water because he had shoes on. As soon as I turned my back, he put not one but both feet in the water. About a week ago and several times before I have told him not to pull out the gardening tubes that were planted in our garden. Today, he pulled them out when he wanted to dig something. I have told him never to draw on anything but paper, today he drew on our dining room
wall. I have told him not to rub toothpaste on the bathroom mirrors. This morning, he did it again, rubbed toothpaste on the mirror. He asked me if he could turn on the hose to play in water, I told him no as we were going to be leaving and I didnt want him to get wet. I went inside the house, he turned on the hose. We have told him dont pull on the wire in the back of the house because that is our tv cable line. Today, he pulled out the cable line. We have told him not to take the screen of the back window....he pulled the screen off he back window.

This was just one day. The list isnt always this long, but this does describe my son and typical behavior we deal with.

Hes not doing any of this in anger or during defiant episodes if hes mad or upset. This is his behavior during the course of a day of playing...doing whatever he wants to do, when he wants to do it. Hes almost like a 2 year old who doesnt know limits, except he'll be 5 in one month!

We have timed him out, took away toys, took away tv priviledges, sent him to his room. TV and going to his room (for long periods of time, not just the one minute
per age thing) seem to make the most impact. I dont think time out for 5 minutes or taking away a toy does much good at all.

Does anyone have any advice/suggestions/knowledge? I feel so lost and frustrated.
At My Wits End

[TweetyMom04]

I'd first suggest, not turning your back on him. I learned this very quickly with Twin Boys

We are going through something similar with our Twins. Sounds like the same age as your Boy. I know the frustration, end of your rope, throw you arms up nearly every second in frustration and the most common phrase, doesn't listen and then wonders 'why' he got into trouble. Yep, been there and still am. Hang in there it can only get better

Watching / View / Attention:
I know it is hard, but if he knows you are watching, maybe he is inclined not to do something.

Sounds like he wants attention, be noticed, recognized. A basic human need and desire. He will do whatever to get the attention, even if negative and punishable. Make sure you give him eye contact when he speaks with you. Ask him to do the same with you when you speak with him. He will fast learn that he has your undivided attention and vv when you need his attention.

Communication / Hearing Problems
Maybe he doesn't understand the "don't do x" as "do x" ?

Does he or could he have Hearing Problems? Our DS-L had and still does have hearing problems. Makes communication with him and him with us, nearly impossible and frustrating at times. No it is not to early for hearing tests. Our Twins will be 5 in Mid-Summer.


Boundaries / Punishment
If he is going to do these, than make him clean it up. Dont' help him. Rule around here and anywhere we go, "you make the mess, you clean it up."

Testing the boundaries. What he can and cannot get away with.

As someone suggested to me, what is something that will really get his attention and not cause him to do 'x' again. DH & I thought about it and what we came up with has worked.........so far.

As for priviledges, what does he like to do? Play outside, going to the beach, going to the park, going to where? What does he like to do (besides push your buttons - ha, ha ) Swimming, Riding a bike, Playing Ball, Going to a game (Baseball, Football, Soccer)? Start taking away a priviledge at a time. Someone suggested this to us.......that is what is working so far. The Boys have to choose from a basket of stuff they like to do and remove something. They know they aren't supposed to do 'x' and if they do, they did the punishment to themselves.

Who are his playmates? Could he have some Bullies for Playmates you aren't aware of? Both our Boys have had problems with Bullies at school. He may view their behavior as something to try or he likes it. Hence, why you are having destructive behavior at home.

Good Luck

[DET62]

Have you thought about positive reinforcement? I am reading a book called Don't Shoot the Dog, and it's about using positive reinforcement in not only dog training, but in all areas of human interaction. I am trying to incorporate this into my family life.

OTOH, I must admit, my son [age 11] is testing the boundaries. He wants the world to operate on his timetable and he just shuts down and refuses to do things he doesn't want to do. The only thing I've found that really works is for me to threaten time out on his knees - a 20 minute time out, kneeling, is not fun. I also threaten to take away Gameboys, etc. He's lost Gameboy privileges before.

One behaviorist I know of advocates taking all toys and everything fun away from a child and making them "earn" them back with good behavior.

Good luck -
Dee

[MamaS]

It does sound like he wants your attention. Could you try getting him involved in your activities? Instead of "don't play with the water hose" how about "let's wash the dishes together" or "let's clean the toothpaste off the mirror together". You can use "time with mommy" as a reward. "If you play nicely in your room while Mommy gets the floor mopped, then we can read a book together. "
Also, try getting a kitchen timer. Set it and say -- "You play and mommy works for 25 minutes, and then when it rings we will go to the park, etc." Both of these work with my just-turned-5-year-old.

[angelkisses0102]

My son is the same age and he has impulse control issues completely related to his sensory processing disorder. It is maddening but he is 100% unable to control himself...especially once he is dysregulated. e have been working very hard this year and especially him in his full time special needs pre-K. We are finally seeing and getting the professional help he needs and deserves and seeing positive results.

I would have him fully evaluated by a team of professionals who are well versed in international adoptees...I would look to sensory issues, FAE (lack of cause and effect thinking is very common), neurological issues, maybe ADHD...there are so many potential issues that a professional may be able to uncover. and then help you to address.

While my list looks very scary...I have found that indealing with DS's issues...knowing what is going on, no matter what the name of it...is beneficial because we can begin to address his issues properly. The change in my son in the past year is truly nothing short of a miracle!

All the best to you!

[kretzklan]

While I agree that there could be underlying issues, I also wouldn't jump to that conclusion. If you lined up 100 moms with both bio, adopted, foster and all other type of children - 99 of them would say that they went through this at one age on another. I know so many people here hate the "this is normal"...but it can be and is for most kids. I was, perhaps, the one who gave Tweetymom the idea about the privilege grab bag. We use that with our 9,10 and 11 year old kids. It's for any and all infractions. They must "tear a privilege" - I have ours on a tear sheet. It sure does work around here. I do find I have to continue changing what it on the sheet or they get "used" to some loss of privileges. Anyway...the other thought I had right away was that he should lose the right to play alone. If you have things to do, he should be your right hand man...always within an arms reach. It will slow your day down some - but put the onus on him. It's his job to stay close to you. You should make him understand that he could earn back the right to play alone (or out of eyesight)...but for now, you'd like to have him with you. And, I totally agree that he should be and is able to clean up his own messes. The clean up may not be to your standards, but make a standard that is clean and achievable for a almost 5 year old. He can't go to kindergarten and expect to behave this way...it will be a long year for all of you!

[MamaChinch]

My dd is three, and impluse control is something she needs work on also! Something that has worked well for us is her "Rock Jar". I took a plastic jar and marked a line in the middle and filled it with rocks to that line. When she breaks a house rule, or some other infraction, SHE takes a rock out. Also, if she does something good, she gets to put one in. Every morning we review the house rules.
Friday is prize day. If the rocks are above the line, she gets to pick one out. She hates having to take a rock out and when I give her a warning about it, she does not like that!
Children also need to be constantly reminded of what they should not do and your expectations. Even if you have told him before, everytime he goes outside, repeat the rules. I know he will find something else, but he's also a boy!
I also have dd terrified of the Super Nanny.....and Camp Kretz......he he!!

[GCS]

My suggestion is to get an appointment with a good Pediatric Neuro Psych and have him evaluated.

I think that while a lot of behaviors are stages or wanting attention, an evaluation will rule out some concerns for you and if you find that there is a problem you are able to address it now and not wait until there are problems in school later.

We had this evaluation done last May. I wish we had done this a year earlier. I could have had a much easier life if I had understood my son's sensory issues and how they affected him everyday. Now we've been in OT and Speech (for processing how he hears and interprets, not diction - big difference there!) for 9 months. He graduated out of speech therapy this month and is only going to OT every other week. The change in him in a year has been remarkable.

All the best,
Christina

[KellyKA]

When you tell him not to do somthing do you inlcude the consquence with the request? He might not be correlating his actions with punishment. Like if you say, " Dont put your feet in the water" vs "Dont put your feet in the water, if you do we will go home, and you will have time out" or whatever his punishment may be. Then renforce what you say, if he still does it. " I told you you would get time out if you put your feet in the water, so now you have to sit here" That might help him to think about it more the next time. And do it for all things, toothpaste smearing etc.

Not to correlate child rearing with dog training but if the dog were to go to the bathroom in the house and you were to come home 10 min later and find it, and punish the dog, they wouldnt understand that the bathroom mess what why they were beging punished.

Possibly he isnt connecting his behavior with your punishments so maybe making them very clear and upfront before the behavior is done, and reminding him daily of it he will stop to think before behaving as impusivly.

[mommyto4]

Sorry to hear of your struggles, I too think it could be sensory related/poor impulse control which is common in pi children. Try time ins and positive reinforcement,instead of saying "don't do this", which makes it more tempting for him to do, say "please do this it will make Mommy very happy,if you listen to mommy you will get..." more one on one time,keeping him close to you,try to decrease environments that might overstimulate him. Best wishes...

[angelkisses0102]

Earlier today we had our formal evaluation with a private sensory OT for DS...when asked what my 'top 3' issues were...I put impulsivity as #1. She agrees that it is a major concern with DS and we are addressing...in what all honesty is nothing really major for us to do. DS will be going to therapy twice per week and we will be doing the daily work at home. And our 'homework' until Friday is really simple activities that will work for my lil' guy.

And on side note...he LOVED going and can't wait to go back and 'see that girl...the fun doctor' as he has already dubbed her. My guy KNOWS he is impulsive and is ready to change those behaviors and I fully believe with the OT's help...he will.

Good luck!

[happy-g]

I totally feel your pain. I encourage you to read both books that Deborah Gray has written. We were referred to her by Dr. Bledsoe at the University of Washington. When we first called to see if she could see our then 3 year old we were told that she wasn't taking new clients, luckily for us she decided to take our daughter on and it was such a HUGE blessing for us. We have been seeing her for almost 2 years now and the change in our daughter has been remarkable. Every behavior you describe in your son we saw in our daughter. She had absolutely no impulse control, did anything for attention (good or bad) and seemed to care less if we got upset... no empathy. She also had no "real estate" so it was exhausting trying to give her a punishment because there was NOTHING she really cared about other then having MY total attention.
I encourage you to find a councilor in your area that has worked with children that were adopted out of Institutionalized care and know the deeper emotional/security issues that these kids sometimes are dealing with.
Good Luck

[CTgirl00]

Everyone has some great advice and food for thought. I would also suggest taking a look and seeing if anything in his life has changed, even something small - something at school, playgroup, new pet, new TV show he is watching, etc.

My almost 4 year old has been doing the same things recently, but we were expecting this since his brother just came home from Russia 7 weeks ago.
We started doing something similiar to the "Rock Jar" mentioned and it is working wonders.

[kdk545]

I want to thank everyone for their advice and input. I dont know what Id do without everybody's wisdom and experience. Thank goodness for these boards.

I have already contacted a pediatric neuro/psychologist about my son. Thankfully we have an excellent childrens hospital right in our area with an international adoption clinic.

I do suspect we are dealing with sensory issues/poor impulse control problems here. For some reason things seem to have gotten worse in the last few months and that is something we cant put our finger on either.

And btw, to respond to some of your questions...we have done things like reward systems/behavior charts and positive reinforcements. In other words, it wasnt only "punishments" for bad behavior. Obviously this hasnt been enough because we are dealing with something more here.

Anyway, thank you so much again. I will keep you updated.

[angelkisses0102]

One other thing to look at is food allergies and intolerences...these can cause severe behavioral problems in kids. This link has some interesting info as well. A4everFamily.org - Biomedical

And one last thing...is your DS on any medications? We have some minor behavioral issues and some ADHD like behaviors in DD that were directly related to her allergy medication. Once we took her off of the singulair...she was a new child.

Good luck and update us when you can!