[angelkisses0102]

This has been weighing heavily on my mind for about the past month. I have heard of 4 recent disruptions (3 from Russia)...2 involving toddlers, 1 involving 2 toddlers adopted at once a couple of years ago, and one a young school age child. Attachment issues, up to and including RAD, and additional PI issues and behaviors are involved. I have recently been told that for Russian adoption alone, several hundred PER YEAR are disrupted (I do not know that for a fact but am working on getting some hard numbers.) China has a disruption rate of 1 to 2 per week.

What are your thoughts on this?

Can you understand? Is it ever the best option?

What would make you consider it? Have you considered it?

What is a *acceptable* timeframe after adoption to consider disrupting? (edited to add this question since kretz bring up a good point.)

What do you think could prevent this from happening so frequently?

Are there certain situations that should be considered red flags and prevent a family from adopting?

I, of course, have very strong beliefs on this...but I will post them later. I am curious of the general thought on this though...but please keep it respectful of others opinions. I can guarantee right now...there will be very strong beliefs and opinions on this and they will NOT all be on the same page.

[kretzklan]

What are your thoughts on this? My gut reaction was that I can't understand it...but after suffering through a few issues with my children (that would be considered minor by most), I can see where someone that wasn't prepared correctly could use this path.

Can you understand? Is it ever the best option? I believe it can be the correct path if there is danger presented for another member of the family. If a child is injuring another child or a parent...I would have to believe that you would protect the other children.

What would make you consider it? Have you considered it? During my severe struggles with attaching to my children and my wrestling with PADS - it entered my mind. I wondered if living with a person that couldn't show a lot of love was a "life sentence". I wondered if they would have been better off with a family that didn't have a mother suffering. As time has passed, I know that I am the mother they were supposed to have and we are all doing as well as we are doing right now...

What do you think could prevent this from happening so frequently? More education. Not just before the adoption but after. I feel there should/could be required classes upon the return home. That is when the real issues arise. We learned so much prior to the adoption - but at that point - you only see roses and fairies...you can't imagine it could happen to you. Some of what we heard was REALLY frightening (like the film that showed adult IA adoptees basically cursing their APs for taking them away from their birthlands)...and we just couldn't go there in our minds. Who wants to? But when presented with a raging child...well, required classes could help.

Are there certain situations that should be considered red flags and prevent a family from adopting? I have heard comments in the past that raise red flags to me personally. I think the home study process could be a little more in-depth in this area. The reasons for adopting...it can't just be to have a cute kid. I don't know that there are set "red flags" because each situation is so different.

My added thought and the one I've struggled with when thinking about this is the time frame. Can you really know what is happening with a child and your family in three months? I know for us (going on 14 months) - we are still learning things about these children every day. Temperament, likes and dislikes, attitude...that all takes so much time to come out. They are in a vacuum like setting when they first come home - the swirling and loud noises - and it takes some time for them to become who they will be. I've heard of disruptions within the first 4-6 months home...that is hard for me to understand. That is such a hard time for everyone - the parents, the siblings, the CHILD...and what that does to attachement for that child in the future - I can't imagine.

[SingleMama2B]

Well said Kretz.....

I agree that the Homestudy/SW and also the Agency should spend more time discussing, educating, etc. prospective AP's. No matter what.... all of the children in the Federation System are "Broken" in one way or another, and sometimes many ways. My goodness, for what some of these children have endured, seen, etc. is more then some American adults would in a life time. How could they NOT be broken.....

Services are a BIG issue.... I did not have any education, prior to adopting my DD other then reading an article or two on the web! I did become VERY educated after coming home trying to understand my DD and her actions, etc. Truthfully, I did not EXPECT a perfect child, and knew that it was certainly would be an adventure with a HOPEFULLY Happy Ending.

Today is 2 years home forever, and I am STILL discovering many more things about my DD! She certainly has seen, endured, WAY TOOO MUCH for an 8 year old. We are still working through some issues (her fears, etc.). I truly do NOT think that ALL AP's have given this alot of thought, it takes YEARS.... and some may not realize this...

[RainyInGA]

whoa. Loaded but most important thread Karen..


"What are your thoughts on this?"
I think it would probably be the hardest thing a family would ever have to face.

"Can you understand? Is it ever the best option?" I agree with Kretz's thoughts. In the event of another child being hurt, then of course if its the last measure then you need to consider safety. I actually raised a child (grown now) who had severe RAD. One incident with her and my oldest son (3 at the time) almost got us to that point. Scary.

"What would make you consider it? Have you considered it?"

Again, safety of other children in home. No I have not had to consider it with Summer who attached beautifully (thank you Jesus!)
I personally know of a few families who have disrupted One for safety reasons, one beacuse of divorce (BOO>) and one because they just were'nt prepared PERIOD. Not judging that situation but we are ALL accountable for knowing what we could be getting into.

"What do you think could prevent this from happening so frequently?

Again Kretz said it best
EDUCATION. Let's face it even if you luck out to have an agency that offers classes etc, there is way more to basic parenting that needs to be learned. Sadly, I have talked several new parents off a ledge who do not know the most basic toddler behaviors and are freaked and think their child is abnormal. WHEW!!! what a hard one! Some families even take on two toddlers at once!! Being an experienced parent BEFORE we adopted helped me immensely in helping spot red flags in the children we were introduced to.Unfortunatley alot of families dont have this advantage. I would have been terrified not knowing toddler behaviors! ;0 Read all the childhood developement books you can get your hands on! Take a class! Hang out with your friends kids!! And of course read the all important attachment books for PI kids.

"Are there certain situations that should be considered red flags and prevent a family from adopting?"
More severe medicals that you can honestly take on. Financially,emotionally.
Line up a good Dr to have help you during the emotional tiome of meeting your child.
In the end parents are accountable for the little life they take on.
NO JUDGEMENT for what the end choices may be, but educating yourself is the best thing you can do.

[Barton]

if your numbers are correct and there are 200 - 300 disruptions a year of Russian adoptions.. based on a figure of an aerage 5,000 kids adopted each year.. that only translates to about 4% - 6% off all Russian adoptions each year that end in disruption. I think that is a relatively small number given some of the severe issues that some parents are faced with when they get home and the honeymoon is over. Of course, I wish the number was zero...but we live in the real world.

[jkkclinton]

Honeymoon phase once you get home??!! Hahhaha I think the honeymooon phase is during the initial visits. Boot camp is the first six months home. Reality is after that.

Having bio and adopted children I can see some very different bonding issues. No flames for this please...this is only my experience!! I bonded with my bio children from birth. With James...it took a lot longer. He was tough to love and I had to learn to love this child. Education is HUGE...we did behavior therapy at the Texas Children's...so that I could learn to parent him. We are in a much better place now. But to have this child that you haven't completely bonded with and then to have behavior issues on top...yeah, where's my door out? I never would have voiced that thought during the process but it was there! We stuck in though and have come out shining.

On that note..I was with a couple that adopted three children at once and did not have bio children. I think they had a few issues to begin with. We were very close in country and spoke a few times out of country and then it just sort of stopped. I think they were probably in the disrupted figure...and it sort of makes sense to me. They were not prepared for three children and certainly not all at once.

Toddlers come with their own set of issues. When you have a newborn you slowly ease into life with them. Then you get comfortable and add another newborn and the two ease into eachother as well as the workload for the parents. But to have three at once having never had any...I couldnt' do it!

The idea of this new family is so picture perfect and reality is so much different.

I personally couldn't let my James go. I do understand the mentality behind it. I think it's better for the kids if the parents know they can't be what they need to be then to put them in a better home. It's so sad. We all need to be praying for these children and for the heart breaking decisions that parents have to make.

Okay..so those are my thoughts.
Krista

[Katie63011]

Personally, I think the parents involved in the majority of disruptiosn have been through their own nightmare having to get to that point. I don't think that we should judge them or their actions because we don't know what it is like to walk in their shoes.

I agree that education is instrumental in preparing APs before and after an adoption, but doubt very much that anyone would walk away from their child that they moved heaven and earth to get unless it was the last resort.

Katie

[Russiamomto3]

What are your thoughts on this? I used to be one of the people that would say "How could anyone even think to do this?" I am now ONE of those people. I have to say, it was the hardest thing we (and I say we because it was a family issue) ever had to do or will ever have to do.

Can you understand? Is it ever the best option? Yes, I can understand. But it is hard for anyone else to understand unless you have lived in the shoes of those how have been there or who are there. Yes it is the best option if it is what is right for the child and the families involved. For us it was extactly what had to be done. The child was violent in our home, to the extend of coming after me and my husband ,we were afraid for the other children, not only physically, but mentally and fears from child services, because she would physically hurt herself and say it was either me or my husband.

What would make you consider it? Have you considered it? Exactly what I wrote above. We had to consider our other 3 children (all adopted) and make the choice that would be best for all 4 of the children (including the one we disrupted).

What is a *acceptable* timeframe after adoption to consider disrupting? (edited to add this question since kretz bring up a good point.) I really don't think anyone can put a label on the exact time frame of HOW LONG. It is different for every family, every child. Some parents see the real child come out from the buried past within days to say that it just isn't the right match, sometimes it will take months even years. For us we tried EVERYTHING (and yes I mean everything) for several months before the decision was made.

What do you think could prevent this from happening so frequently? In our case it was the lack of information/omitted information we recieved from the orphanage. For us it was NOT the "taking a leap of faith when adopting", we knew the what if's, we knew the "this COULD happen" and believe me we deal with all of that stuff everyday with our other 3, all are special needs in some way or another. I really think that agencies do what they can to prepare families for adoption, but you really can never be sure that a match with a child to a family is going to work out. Sometimes it just doesn't, it can be genetics, PI, or even just plain old people not meshing together.

Are there certain situations that should be considered red flags and prevent a family from adopting? I am not sure if I undersand this question. Are you saying that a family that disrupted should not be able to adopt? If so this should NOT be the case. We have 3 successfull adoptions and then 1 disrupted. Are we considered then bad parents in general...I dont' think so.
Are you saying that there might be red flags from the kids that should keep us from adopting them. Really I don't think so. Many of the children in russia are medicated, medicated for behavior...basically zombies when we meet, visit and finally adopt them. You will not see the real child until you are home. So really there are NO red flags there either.



I expect to get flames. But I feel that if you are going to discuss this issue you need to hear from those of us who have been there done that.

As an update: Was our decision the right one? YES Why? Both our family and the new family are doing wonderful. The child is now fitting into her surroundings, the parents knew going in what to expect with her, there are no other siblings so no issue of violence there. They too have seen the issues we have seen, but knowing ahead of time what to expect has helped them to deal with them and aid her in becoming a "normal" child.
Do we stay in contact with the child? No not directly, be we are in contact with the parents, we have a very open relationship with them.
Does the child have scars from the disruption? No she has very happy memories of us and our family and it greatful for her new parents.

Hope this helps the discussion

[schulie]

What are your thoughts on this?
Much as the others have said, it should be used as a last resort when all other avenues have been exhausted

Can you understand? Is it ever the best option?
I personally know of a situation in which a couple adopted a school aged child when they really wanted a younger child. The parents and child never fully attached and they were unprepared to deal with the child's PI issues. They disrupted the adoption in less than a year and the child was placed with a family within our church. She is loved and flourishing now, so in her case the disruption was the best thing for her

What would make you consider it? Have you considered it?
I agree with the others, if the safety or mental wellbeing of myself, my spouse and/or other children were at stake, I would consider disruption if all others options had failed

What is a *acceptable* timeframe after adoption to consider disrupting? (edited to add this question since kretz bring up a good point.)
That would seem to be a difficult thing to predict, as each family and circumstance is different. I think for me it would have to be after we had attempted to attach/bond post adoption (at least 6-12 months) then tried therapy to address the issues (another 12 months?). So for me at least 18-24 months....but realistically, who would know for sure?

What do you think could prevent this from happening so frequently?
Absolutely, better POST adoption education and available services. Pre adoption many have "rose colored glasses" on, and even those who go into IA with their eyes wide open may not be prepared for the severity or complexity of their child's issues. The home study/adoption agency should sponsor group meetings that address specific issues and that allow parents to openly and honestly share, vent, grieve and explore options other than disruption, give inservices of what services are available (PT/OT/ST, nutrition, psych support for both PAD and attachment issues, etc) and how to get your child "hooked" into the system. Books are helpful but often not specific enough when one is trying to figure out how to deal with their child's specific needs

Are there certain situations that should be considered red flags and prevent a family from adopting?
Again, this is a hard one as each family has a different threshold. I do think that parents who do not already have children in the home should be counseled as to the challenge of adoption 2 or more at once. Not to say that these PAPs will not be outstanding parents, just that the stress, effort and incredible change to one's lifestyle with the addition of a child(ren) can not be underestimated (nor can one understimate the pure joy and happiness, either!). And in the case of the family I mentioned above, I wonder if the SW or agency should have done more to make sure that original PAPs were TRULY willing to adopt an older child, or were they pressured to do so, swayed by a picture or in meeting her, etc and did not think their decision through.

Katie63001: I absolutely agree with you that the majority of families that do decide to disrupt have been through hell and back and that no one can judge them for their actions. It must be devastating to come to the realization that your family can not survive unless one of its members is removed, and the fallout of a disruption for all involved (child, parents, other children in family) has to be so very difficult to overcome.

[Katie63011]

Russiamomto3,

I am very glad that you spoke out. I know from reading a few of your posts in the past what a heart wrenching decision your disruption was. I know too that you knew what the risks were as you have three previously adopted children in the home that had adjustment issues and special needs that you met head on.

Anyone on these forums is here to educate, so why criticize those who had to disrupt. I am sure it is the single most difficult thing that anyone has ever had to live through. Let's be supportive, not judgemental.

Just my humble opinion....

Let me add that maybe I am speaking out on this subject because I have a close friend who has three children adopted from EE. It has been so incredibly difficult to watch what is going on with their family relating to one of the children. They are doing absolutely everything in their power to help their son but it so far has been a losing battle. Do I think that their son has made some strides, yes, but I also think that he would be better in a home with no other children, especially those younger than him. Do I think they will disrupt - probably not at this point but it has been discussed. I know that there are no guarantees in IA, but this has caused issues on huge fronts that I am not going go into any detail on. It's been over a year and they still fight the fight, but I can see why some have to get to the disruption point. They were educated on the what ifs and continue to seek outside help with the situation. I think it's similar to what Russiamomt3 experienced, a lot of citical information was not offered to them prior to accepting the child.

Edited to take out statement about OP -

[maddensmom]

First, and I mean this with no disrespect to anyone, if you have never parented an attachment challenged child you truly have no idea what it is like. You just can't possibly truly understand at all. My child struggled so very badly with attachment and I struggled right along with him. It was and is one of the hardest battles I have ever had to fight. And my kid doesn't come close to RAD behavior. I was miserable enough though and so was he. But there was an end in sight for me. What about those people whose children are so hurt that the end for them is either not there, so far away it feels as though it can't be reached, or soemthing that makes their reality so very different from what they as a family can tolerate? I just can't remember my own struggles and my son's and blame people who are struggling so much more and simply do not have the resources to deal with it. What a difficult decision! How could I make that more difficult by adding by judgement to what is already such a horrible situation.
And then, there are these children. And each and every single one of them needs a home, sick or not.
I guess my response would be, "How do we help provide for these children now, after disruption? And how do we make certain prospective adoptive parents are prepared for what may occur, armed to fight the battles they may need to fight, and have the resources they need to get help if they are not making it?"
I was given no infromation at all by my agency in 2004. I went into a battle with attachment issues completely unarmed and my child and I both suffered because of it. But it was one of the longest roads I have ever trod. I remember begging someone to help us when things were at their worst and I was being told by my pediatrician that I was overreacting to my child'd refusal to be held. I remember reading about attachement online and crying hysterically because I then knew I wasn't crazy. I remember screaming at a woman who was giving my child looks, "Back of! You don't know this!" And I remember the instances in which my child started to overcome. And I am so grateful my child and I got to accomplish this. I just can't imagine what it would be like to live this never knowing if it would end.

And I don't think the original post was judgemental at all. Think you're wrong on that Katie.

[Russiamomto3]

Katie...I too feel the original post was original post was written in a judgemental way and I also think it was written to bring out the confrontations on this subject. I have nothing to hide, I am not ashamed and that is why I responded.

OP, I think your feelings towards disruption are obvious. That is your opinion and you are entitled. But you need to see the other side of the issue of disruption.

[maddensmom]

Originally Posted by Russiamomto3

I expect to get flames. But I feel that if you are going to discuss this issue you need to hear from those of us who have been there done that.

As an update: Was our decision the right one? YES Why? Both our family and the new family are doing wonderful. The child is now fitting into her surroundings, the parents knew going in what to expect with her, there are no other siblings so no issue of violence there. They too have seen the issues we have seen, but knowing ahead of time what to expect has helped them to deal with them and aid her in becoming a "normal" child.
Do we stay in contact with the child? No not directly, be we are in contact with the parents, we have a very open relationship with them.
Does the child have scars from the disruption? No she has very happy memories of us and our family and it greatful for her new parents.

Hope this helps the discussion

No flames here. I respect your decision and am grateful you chose to share your story withus. Thank you.

[SingleMama2B]

I just re-read the OP, and I honestly do not think that the poster was trying to insight confrontations or anything along this line. No matter.... Disruption has to be the MOST GutWrenching decission a parent(s) have to make. Again, I have NOT walked in their/your shoes, so my thoughts are just that, thoughts, and am sooooo grateful that I have not been faced with this.

Blessings to ALL that have and may face this......

[Abdulina]

What are your thoughts on this?So many thoughts on this. First off, it is a very individual and personal decision. Each and every situation is totally different. And I mean TOTALLY different. There are different reasons for each family as to why they disrupt. Some are obviously out of necessity. Some unfortuantely, are not. I know of several young toddlers recently disrupted for no other reason than the mother decided against having that child there. No issues whatsoever. On the ohter hand, I know a family that tried literally everything and had to disrupt. The daughter killed, yes, I ddid say killed, the grandmother living in the household.

Can you understand?[color="blue"]Yes, I can. [color="blue"] Is it ever the best option? If there is violence or abuse going on that can NOT be fixed w/ therapy then yes, it may be the only option. You have to once again think of hte family dynmics. Some kids do better as an only child. That is why we didn't adopt one of the 3 kids we hosted. And we told the agency to ONLY place that child w/ a NO sib household as we thought he was very high risk for violence.

What would make you consider it? After all other resources have been exhausted. And only if there were severe violence going on in hte home. Have you considered it?Never considered disruption but seriously considered hospitalizing one of my children. Hope I never have to but w/ the severity of some of their FAS/RAD issues, we just never know. For now, all are doing very well.

What is a *acceptable* timeframe after adoption to consider disrupting? Once again, so individual for the child. MOst would have given up on our Alex early on. We were told he was going to be a sociopath by many a psychiatrists. The key here is to NEVER give up hope despite how desperate the situation looks. (edited to add this question since kretz bring up a good point.)

What do you think could prevent this from happening so frequently?Honesty w/ the agencies and a more reality check for PAP's. I am currently being asked to speak to one of my agnecy's clients about the reality of the medicals & possibility of FAS. At least they are making an attempt to be honest w/ future parents.

Are there certain situations that should be considered red flags and prevent a family from adopting? Gosh, such a hard one. I think what would be awesome is a social worker coming over to someone's home for dinner. I know this sounds stupid, but dinner table meals can tell you alot abou tthe family and the kids. Sitting down w/ someone for a scripted 45 min. to an 1hour interview won't tell you squat. Sorry, but true. Yes, I know they visit several times but really, anyone can "talk" their way out of anything including how they'd feel about the "what-ifs."


[color="Purple"]I can honestly say this is such a hot topic. Everyone's feelings are different. However, unless you have lived that life, you will never truely know how miserable it can be to just exist to the same old stuff day in and day out. And very few understand this. How hard it isto have a RAD child. And RAD is the most severe. I should know. We have quite the RADish. Lots of healing but as I found out today in school, not all healed yet. Had lunch w/ the kids today at school and our RADish is exhibiting mroe behaviors. I think the important thing to remember is there are challenges that need to be addressed. I had one family call me up and say I have to send them back. I told her this is NOT Target, there is no exchange policy. They are getting ready to graduate high school now and phenominal smart and very athletic and gifted. Had those first rough few months of adjustment let her "send them back, " what would haev happened to these girls? On the other side, the more severe children need intervention even faster and I think the agencies should be responsible for helping the parents find the help they need. But most agencies do not. Bottom line, disruptions are bound to happen as some of these children have experienced intense trauma. I just think the disruptions that happan quickly(like w/in months of being home) need to be addressed closer. This is my opinoion on the subject. I am not an expert and don't claim to be.

[color="Black"]Take care,