[tigger44]

Our daughter is almost 2 1/2 and is doing very well attachment wise, at 17 months home. However, she has always had a need to control. We've seen this improve somewhat with our attachment parenting, but it is still evident, and of concern to me. We're searching for a discipline technique, or techniques, that are more effective with her. Besides the need to control (and manipulation plays into that), she has developed quite a sassy mouth. And not yet 2 1/2. Oh my! It's worse with my husband. That leads me into another story, but I'll try to keep this short. My husband was raised by a very strict disciplinarian, a very controlling dominating mother. I have been amazed by some of the things that have come out of her mouth regarding children. Anyway, my husband struggles to forget everything his mother taught him about parenting a child. He's working on it, but it's really hard for him.

We have used time-in (time-out with mom or dad standing close by), which seems like a joke. A "pop" on the tush is virtually useless as well. I'm working on regressing her a little, and also providing more structure so that she has little free time to worry about who is really in charge. She responds well to special toys or book reading being taken away, if we can connect that with her behavior at the time. This doesn't work for all times when we need some discipline.

There is no way we can allow her to continue with her bossiness and sassiness when she is given an instruction from us, or when she doesn't like something we are doing, or not doing. I truly understand why she is behaving this way, but I need some fresh ideas for discipline to get this to stop before it gets really out of hand.

Also, if anyone knows of some good parenting resources available on video or DVD (my husband doesn't read books!), that info would be very much appreciated as well. I need to help him lighten up, so that we can deal better with the little boss.

[ddahl]

What I do is get down to his level, literally on my knees in front of him and I force eye contact even if I have to hold his chin in my hand. Lately, we are talking about choice and consequence. Previously I had issues with using any type of discipline with DS due to the fact I have seriously over read on attachment etc. At the end of the day, attached or not he is going to have to live in the real world and the world has rules. Now I ask him to do something like pick up all of the toys. I check for understanding and we sing a clean up song. If we are having a bad moment he will generally say NO! I say thats no problem Mommy asked you to pick up the toys and if you do not want to play neatly and clean up in the den then you will need to play only in your room. He totally understands this and will almost immediatly process the information and get busy cleaning up.

Time out does not work for us. What we do is ask twice then say its your choice you can either.... sit at the table and finish your dinner or you can get your jammies on and spend the evening in your room.
Honestly its the first time in a year and a half that things have been remotly normal here in terms of who is really the parent. In the beginning he would smirk and you could tell he knew our follow through was awful. Now he is getting a clear message and consequences along with tons of praise for a job well done. Lots more happy times and lots more I love you's coming from him as well. One thing we do not do is take things away. We feel thing we buy him are his so we just place his stuff and him in his space and enforce that if he chooses to be part of the group that he needs to follow the rules. We do take away items he is hitting or smashing things with but then we ask ourselves why we ever bought that in the first place. ( we bought him a mini broom and he uses it as a weapon-its cute but it spends a lot of time in toy time out)
You will find your balance!

[ddahl]

p.s. as far as the controlling part I try to remind myself that he is just a big baby and it helps me moderate the way I choose to react to his behavior. That along with the fact that I could care less what others think of my child in public has helped me control my need to over control him in public.

[aimeemk]

I am curious to see the responses. I have a little boss at my house as well. Attatchment has seemed to be going well?. She hit 2.5 and I mean to tell you she is so BOSSY! She has to be the one who opens the refrig, the back door to let the dogs out, the front door, the car door etc. etc. If she does not get to do it she is in hysteric she melts! She tells us "no" quite often. I have read numerous books, no technique has worked. Her teacher (she attends 3 days a week)says she is probably the most bossy in the class, but is very good and minds her.
My Mom tells me I was the same way, my gut tells me no way! We have not eaten out in months as she does not behave in restaurants. She used to be so good. Anyhow, I look forward to the responses!

[angelkisses0102]

For us, consistancy is vital. No mean no means no...Every. Single. Time. It was difficult get DH on board until he heard DS tell me 'No, Daddy do.' This was when I has asked him to clean his room...DH hates messes and hates to hear him cry even worse, so DS used that to his advantage. We do not give in to him, ever. He spent an entire day in his room, other than eating/potty, refusing to clean it (mind you what we are asking of him he is capable of and it will take all of about 5 minutes.) It was tough on me as well as I just sat there...but he realized I will always outlast him.

We completely limit choices so no battles there. As for the mouthiness, we do not respond...simply state that is not acceptable and ignore. I do give him the proper words/actions and we practice and have lots of do-overs. Strong sitting works for him as well.

Overall however, we really do not have many issues with him any longer...now that his attachment is healthy and secure (knock on wood...4 months now) and we are addressing his SID.

Have you looked at Because They Waited or the Nancy Thomas website? I know there are DVD's out there but I haven't ordered any. I'll look around my other links for more.

Good luck.

[angelkisses0102]

Originally Posted by aimeemk

I am curious to see the responses. I have a little boss at my house as well. Attatchment has seemed to be going well?. She hit 2.5 and I mean to tell you she is so BOSSY! She has to be the one who opens the refrig, the back door to let the dogs out, the front door, the car door etc. etc. If she does not get to do it she is in hysteric she melts! She tells us "no" quite often. I have read numerous books, no technique has worked. Her teacher (she attends 3 days a week)says she is probably the most bossy in the class, but is very good and minds her.
My Mom tells me I was the same way, my gut tells me no way! We have not eaten out in months as she does not behave in restaurants. She used to be so good. Anyhow, I look forward to the responses!

Take away the control from her ...completely. You are the boss, she is the baby. We have literally taught DS to say this. My job is to be the mommy, his job is to be the child. Let her melt away...ignore her. She has you trained... You open the doors, let the dogs out...unless you *allow* her to do a few of these things...but keep her off guard and make it random.

DD is bossy, always has been but not where it interfered with much. We were able to talk to her about it. Now, however, I learned a great trick from another forum. If she is bossy or wants to do 'my job', I let her...let her clean the toy room, let her clean her brother's room...generally find unattractive *mom* jobs for her to do. Works like a charm but she is older.

Have you read the book below...lots of people have luck with this and it will not hurt attachment if that is part of the issue. Good luck.
Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood; Practical Parenting from Birth to Six Years by Jim Fay & Charles Fay

Effective, warm approach to parenting. Techniques are especially effective with challenging children.

[k8c]

Just seconding the L&L suggestion. I'm a BIG fan of love and logic--it's just that: loving and logical.

kate

[becky26]

Great thread - thank you! Our son has just started with his "bossy talk". Yesterday, he insisted that he was "Mama"... I held him until he finally admitted that I am the Mama and that I am in charge... We have to get used to this new situation. So far, we thought it was rather funny how he experiments with language. But I know that he will be pretty bad if we don't stop this behavior right away. I read both "Love and Logic" and "1--2-3 Magic" in the past few weeks (and I will reread them again). I found good ideas in both of them. Most importantly, I am working hard to stay calm most of the times. In our case, his aggressiveness towards his little sister requires the most attention. Would love to hear more ideas about disciplining this age group...

[GCS]

I'm loving the love and logic approach. You can always read the book(s) and then discuss what you've learned with DH and put a plan in place together.

My DH never reads any of the books so if I find something interesting or relevant, I talk to him about it and we decide together if we are going to move this way. I think it is important that you guys are on the same page. Otherwise the child will figure out that the rules are different between the parents and will not stop the behavior because sometimes it is acceptable. Its easier to create new good behavior with consistancy.

We do have a little time out chair we would send our oldest to when he was being defiant. I have sent our 2.5 year old there once or twice. After trying to redirect or after a few warnings. She gets very upset about it but it's effective for us. After a minute I have her apoligize to whoever she needs to and she can rejoin us. We rarely use it, and I think in a way that makes it more effective. Its their way to see that they're in big trouble.

Christina

[jroc]

Hi! I don't have advice as our little one isn't talking quite yet.....I guess I have a lot to look forward to though! ha! Thanks for the great thread. I do agree with the others. Stand your ground, let him melt away, and then he'll learn it doesn't get him anywhere.
Easier said than done I am sure.

[tbristow]

Hmmm, I'm detecting a pretty good age trend for the most part. Hunter's behavior really changed around 2 or a little after. I thought it was the move and I'm sure that didn't help, but a lot of the other posts have kids in this range. Time outs didn't help us at all. I took a technique from the "Holding Time" book. He HATES it, but it works. He's about to where I can't hold him still though so it won't work much longer. As he nears 3, I've noticed changes for the better. We're consistent in how we handle him. Of course there was tonight when DH told him to do XXX or XXX would happen. Hunter put a finger on his chin, looked skyward, and said, "Hmm..." I lost it. He was contemplating whether it was worth it or not. He's way too bright sometimes!!

[kellypmomof3]

Does anyone have any ideas for a 4 year old? We are just home not even a month yet so Im not sure how much we should just deal with for now or what. She is very very independent wont hold our hands walking across the road,screams to take a shower a few times a day,changes her clothes 4-5x a day or will not wear anything.Im not sure what to do with sleeping either,I know she is tired but wil not go to bed at night, one of us can sit with her for hours rubbing back,rocking and still she will not sleep? I do realize we are only home a short time so I dont expect to much but im not sure where I should draw the line or even how to draw it?
Its hard to explain things to her yet obviously with the language differance

[Amysue1112]

HI! I really agree with angelkisses...you are the boss and they HAVE to know that. Hannah is almost 19 months but thinks she is older than she is sometimes. I have read the 123 Magic book, and although it says it is for 2 and up...it works well with her. We still do time-out (with mommy/daddy sitting with her) and she hates it. We don't have to do it very often now, b/c a threat works most of the time. When she starts this "I am the boss" behavior, I sit down right in front of her (eye level) hold her firmly by the shoulders and make her look me in the eye...I tell her NO for whatever...then MOMMY is the Boss....this is not acceptable...do you hear me?" when she really looks in my eyes and is listening, she will point to her ear...when she is not, I repeat it holding her there until she shows me she is listening. She went through a pretty nasty phase for a month or so...we pretty much stayed home and I stayed on her case..continuing to correct her..we had lots of time outs then, and even a few "pops"...many times where I had her clean up her messes....it was a miserable time for both of us, but I think when she finally realized I would not stop "teaching" her...she realized that it was just easier to do the right thing...now when she screams or pushes or grabs or whatever, I usually have to lift my eyebrow and say "excuse me?" in a sharp tone and she stops it.
I think the hard part is that when we adopt these kids we often worry so much about attachment stuff (which I agree is very important) that we find it difficult to discipline and stay consistant. But for us, I think it has actually been helpful...Hannah has learned what it is like to be someone's child, and she has learned what it is like to have a mom and dad. For attachment, we want them to "depend" on us, and IMHO I think that including "depending" on us to teach them right and wrong and what is proper behavior.
Please know I am not accusing anyone of being too "easy" on their kids..I know some of them (including mine) and those who had to "fend for themselves" for so long....can be difficult no matter what you do...and Lord knows it is not easy to find the energy ALL the time to keep on them.

I do think that it is ok to "take things away"...if children can not treat their toys respectfully...well, that sounds funny but ya know what I mean...I think this is an important lesson...Hannah got in a phase where she kept ripping her sheets off her bed..I kept trying to teach her not to do it, but finally I had enough and we took the sheets off the bed completely. I don't think she liked that option, even though she did not fuss about it..but after 5 days the sheets went back on and that was that. Has not happened again. I think sometimes "taking away" rather than "NO NO NO" all the time can be very effective.

This is a great thread..can't wait to hear more opinions...

[Jasiu]

Hello, I am visiting from the Poland board. We also brought a 4 yr old girl (just turned 4 in Oct) a month ago and your description sounds very familiar! Our daughter sleeps OK though and she is quite affectionate. The main problem is with dressing (nothing fits, everything is "falling" as she says), and also with asserting independence in many ways (especially dealing with showers, food, changing her pullups, etc. when help is really needed). She has gotten better, but still throws tantrums on many occasions. We have been quite firm at dressing time: most of the time we give her two choices. If she screams and refuses to dress in either, we walk away. If she tries to throw the clothes around, we put them back next to her calmly but firmly and signal that she must wear what we ask. If she refuses to wear a coat or shoes that we picked, she gets carried into the car (shoes/coat in our hands). This usually works and she puts them on promptly in the car. If she continues to fuss and cry, she gets taken back home and does not go anywhere (this is of course not always possible).
We feel it is really important to assert our parental authority and a child this age needs to learn boundaries. Of course, this must be balanced with a lot of love and affecton and praise, when she complies.

Our kids (we also adopted an 8 year old boy) had some sleeping issues and generally high energy that was very difficult on us at the very beginning. We quickly discovered how important it is to get them out to the park or playground, or the mall, or somewhere else when they can get the energy out during the day. About an hour before bedtime (which is somewhere between 8p-9p), we turn the lights down and turn off the TV. We read stories to them every night. Although my wife reads to them in Polish, they also enjoy Dr. Seuss in English, because it sounds funny even if one cannot understand the meaning. Also, did you try to lie down with your daugther? Our kids do not need it as much anymore, but they asked my wife to lie down and hold them at bedtime in the first weeks after arrival.

Originally Posted by kellypmomof3

Does anyone have any ideas for a 4 year old? We are just home not even a month yet so Im not sure how much we should just deal with for now or what. She is very very independent wont hold our hands walking across the road,screams to take a shower a few times a day,changes her clothes 4-5x a day or will not wear anything.Im not sure what to do with sleeping either,I know she is tired but wil not go to bed at night, one of us can sit with her for hours rubbing back,rocking and still she will not sleep? I do realize we are only home a short time so I dont expect to much but im not sure where I should draw the line or even how to draw it?
Its hard to explain things to her yet obviously with the language differance

[kahoxworth]

Great to see everyone's responses!

Obviously this won't be an issue for quite some time for us yet (we're in the very beginning stages of the process here), but as I've been learning the different principles behind attachment parenting, I've found myself not able to fully be "on board". I understand where the ideas come from and why, but I've been wondering where the line is between attachment parenting and lack of discipline. Obviously I have a lot more to learn, but it's helpful to see how everyone has been dealing with those issues!