[doozer22boys]

Did anyone go that route? We are working on this technique called "funneling" where only my husband and I are allowed to touch the girls in any manner (hugs, lap sitting, carrying, hugging, high 5's). We are also the only ones to bathe, feed, and do bathroom/diaper stuff...this we have been doing from the beginning. We have always not allowed touching from friends but we did start with all family to begin with. The problem is that both of our girls have affection with strangers--big time--so we have to limit their touch for now so they can understand that their mommy and daddy will meet their every need and will never leave them. They think that every new adult they see is a potential parent and they might go home with them. So they put on the charm and the hand holding and all that. It is horrible to watch. It's especially true of our 4 1/2 year old. I went to an attachment seminar and she told me we just have to do this so our girls do not have indiscriminate relationships their whole life. They have to learn how to have appropriate relationships basically.

The problem is that the grandparents are having a cow about this new rule. They are making it about themselves and not understanding even the basic idea of personal safety for our girls. I am just sick about not having their true support. They said they'll do it but they're extremely hurt. I wish they could understand that the way the girls interact with the Orkin man is the same way they interact with Grandma/Grandpa...because they haven't learned what those special relationships mean yet. My parents don't even live around here. They're 20 hours away. So they only see our family 2-3x a year. My husband's parents live an hour away so it will really affect their visits.

I could go on and on. But I guess I'm asking how those of you who did this technique survived it through the grandparent part. Any advice? As most of you know, I'm working my way through post adoption depression right now so I really don't need this extra stress from grandparents. I am feeling much better since I made that visit to my doctor and started therapy. But this kind of stuff just makes me realize how much harder adoption is than I had expected. No one really gets why we do the things we do---even when you explain it over and over. I just wish we'd get the benefit of the doubt since we truly want what is best for our children.

Thanks for any help.

[Ktates]

We went through the same thing - though we did it from the beginning - Aisling was 14 months when we brought her home and I can say that one of her attachment issues was her lack of fear with strangers (ran up to a stranger several times wanting to be picked up).
After a couple of months we lifted one of our rules - I think it was holding - because we thought things were going well but then what I just described above happened a few times so we put the brakes on it. DH's family is 5 minutes away and the rest of his family is close by. My family understood though they didn't like it - DH's family we had a much tougher time with. DH's grandmother was very angry with me, yelled at DH and told him all that Aisling needed was love and we didn't know anything...grrr - I've never seen DH so mad...

However I still allowed her to be held by them - I was afraid that changing that would be too confusing for her (she couldn't, then she could, then she couldn't you know??). And Aisling did sometimes initiate hugs or kisses with them - I told them not to encourage or initiate but it's ok if she did...We also tried to limit our visits (tough when there is so much family close by).

I did print off some information that talks about the bonding cycle - easy read type of stuff - for them - but we still had issues with the family. I told DH that either they respected our rules or they wouldn't see her for a while and he needed to be on board (which he was). I also stressed to everyone that it wasn't forever - and that I didn't know how long it would be but an ounce of prevention for a pound of cure kind of thing....

Good luck - I think it's tougher when your family lives nearby as far as attachment goes - but we tried to include them as much as possible and really limit some of our other activities to make up for it...You have to do what's best for your family - whatever that turns out to be!!
Karen

[mom2M&A]

My parents also live quite a distance away and only see my boys 2-3 X/yr. I guess I would only raise the attachment parenting issue when a visit is imminent and put the limits that are needed for that visit. In 6 months, at their next visit your limits may have slightly changed. I don't think it needs to be a source of continual conflict when they are not visiting that often. . My parents have been pretty accepting of how we need to parent so I probably am over simplifying here.

[Drazil]

Sorry, no easy answer and the bottom line is do what you need to do for your children, period. These people are adults and they will have to figure out a way to deal with the rules of attachment parenting. Your children are children ( and only acting the only way they know how to survive) and its our job as parents to enforce and be consistant or suffer for it later on (and sometimes sooner rather than later, just read the stories on these forums from people that "thought" everything was just great and their children were social butterflys ). We have all dealt with this grandparent stuff (and some other relatives) and its hard at first and you will not be popular but you cannot worry about them and your children, its too stressful. Your priority is your children and you are on the right track for sure with your attachment parenting so do what needs to be done, 2 years from now you will be very happy you did it, and the rest of the family will be over it!!!! Good Luck!!!!

[Uralmom]

Yes we have gone through this with all the grandparents. After 5+ years, I have a few thoughts on the matter.

Number one, I am a very direct person and have said to my mother when she pulled this sort of thing: "don't make this about yourself. Raising a PI kid is NOT the same as raising a bio at first. You have no experience with it, I am living it. You can take it personally if you want to, but it has nothing to do with you. I have only my child's interest in mind, whose interest are you looking after?" Now, this is not for everyone, I know. But this is your childrens' life and sometimes the direct method is the only way to go. You don't have to be as harsh as that, but you do have to be firm.

With my in laws, it was different. They really just don't get it and wonder how too much love can hurt a kid, especially one from an orphanage, blah blah blah. No amount of talking could really make them get it. So I allow a brief hug hello and a brief hug good bye. That's it. If I see them trying to kiss the kids, feed them or anything else for that matter, I say to my child "no no, dear, kisses are for mommy and daddy" or I remove the child from the room and cuddle them for a while. We only see them every couple of months so it's not too bad. If you are only seeing them every so often, this may be the way to go, AFTER A WHILE. We waited about 6 months to do this with our oldest, and we still aren't doing it with our youngest.

You have to change your thinking. You can't be liked by everybody all the time, even family. You are doing what's best for your children. Look at it this way...if your child was gravely ill and somebody had the cure but said "well, I really don't think he needs it. He doesn't look that sick to me." you would plow that person in the face, grab the cure and give it to your child, and not worry about how that person felt about it. This is the same thing. Attachment determines the sort of life your children will have, you are fighting for their lives and the grandparents have the cure (respecting your wishes).

Another thing to think about is that you can't control how other people are going to treat your kids, you have to work on the kids themselves once they get more language. We made a chart with our older son. "these are people you can kiss and sit on laps, and have big hus with. (us) these are people you can hug hello and goodbye (gp's) these are people you can give high fives to (aunts and uncles) these are people you can say hello to (adult family friends) If they weren't on the chart, then the child would look to me for guidance. You may be a few months away from this with your older girl yet, but keep it in mind.

Finally go to:

A4everFamily.org - HOME look on the left side under main menu, click on family matters and there you will find some ways to deal with fmaily and friends. (and lots of other great attachment stuff too!)

your Mar Kuel buddy...

[LilyMoon]

We also dealt with this issue when we came home. I began explaining "the rules" to my parents before we even brougnt our daughter home. We didn't get the best responses either. They sort of understood, but not really, especially my father who came in from across the country to see his new grandchild. I explained and explianed to no avail. I just had to keep a really close watch on things, keep our child next to us at all times and lay down the rules in fron of her, which was very helpful in having her see that.

I made it clear to her that hugs and kisses were for mommy, daddy and brother. That's all. It had to be very black and white. She could only talk to other adults with my permission, could not take food from others and had to hold my hand whenever we left the house. However, I did not inforce any rules with other children. For some reason, this was not her issue.

It was hard for a while, but she caught on pretty quickly. I was fairly vigilant for about a year. Now, three years later, it is not an issue at all. She knows what is appropriate and what is not. She is shy when she first meets people. She takes her cues from me and can tell how to behave based on that.

Good luck...it is a long hard road, but a very necessary one and one that will heal your children. Don't let others feelings and the awarkwardness of the situation cause you to stray from what is best for your children.

[angelkisses0102]

Sadly we had to go very, VERY hardline after 5 months of BS from DH's family and a middle of the night arguement which led to my MIL and her boyfriend leaving our home. BTW...not the way to go.

I feel simple is better...if you getting a hard time then I would just say ~

'You have two options, either you abide by our rules graciously or you will not interact with our children until they have healed.'

You do not need to constantly hear all the doubts and BS about what you must do to heal your children...after a while you will get used to be told how 'wrong' you are. Sorry.

DH's family is finally seeing that Alex's behaviors are not within the realm of normal...and we have been home since March 2004. We did not share a lot a information on his behaviors or go too deep. We just said we have to do this because of the impact of his first months of life had on him.

My mom, who works with special needs kids, was cooperative...yet she still struggles to fully grasp and understand (not in a bad way...but it is so hard to understand) how an 8 month old baby could be so damaged.

I will dig up some letters I have...here is another great letter from A4everFamily.org - HOME...

Hugs and hang on...please know we understand...we really, really do.

When Family & Friends Don't Understand Since many of the symptoms associated with attachment problems look like normal childhood behaviors, it can be very difficult if not impossible to explain to friends and family. Some, in an attempt to be helpful, try to dismiss the problems. You hear, “Oh, my son has temper tantrums all the time,” all the while thinking to yourself, “Not like these, lady!” Others try to generalize, “He looks perfectly normal to me,” while you roll your eyes, knowing that he is at his worst only when he is home. Alone. With you.

And then, there are the friends and family who, in the spirit of helpfulness, begin to question your methods, or even worse, your sanity.

A low point in our attachment road came about nine months after we first identified the problem. After months of progress, we plateaued, which felt at the time like a major upset. For support, I turned to a close friend. From the beginning, she supported our journey through regular contact, prayers, and listening sessions. I divulged more to her than most, feeling that she truly accepted what I’d been teaching her about the attachment process. After sharing the latest struggles, I was shocked to receive a note from her asking if my child could sense my love for him as he was, rather than as a project that needed to be fixed.

I was devastated. Yet, at the same time, I knew that I couldn’t expect her to understand. She’d never parented a child who’d undergone separation and loss, let alone a child who experienced four different mommies in less than six months. But it hurt, and I still desperately hoped that she could understand. I wrote her a reply:

If I had a child with leukemia, would that child be able to sense my love for him as he is, not that he is a project that needs to be fixed or completed? If I had a child with leukemia, a nosebleed or a bruise would take on different meaning and attention than it would with a child who is believed to be physically healthy. In the same way, when my son exhibits behaviors consistent with attachment issues, I tend to respond to them in the light of that knowledge. To accept him as he is means to accept him fully including his attachment needs. To ignore that would not be loving him any more than ignoring the needs of a physically ill child. It would be denial.

My son is what he is, attachment issues and a host of other things....he is bright, lively, entertaining. But if we enjoy him and ignore attachment related behaviors, we would be denying him the help he needs to become the person God intended him to be.

She never replied. Our friendship continues, although the attachment process is no longer on the discussion docket. Instead, I have found friends “in the trenches” who understand what it means to walk this journey.

Some of the greatest pain comes from those who insist that, as the song goes, “all they need is love.” Anyone who has parented an attachment impaired child knows that it is not that simple. The following letter is from an adoptive mother to another adoptive parent who said that all one must do is love children with attachment problems and they’ll be fine:

If one follows your thought through to conclusion then anyone who has an adopted child who experiences attachment issues does not love their child enough, does not nurture their child enough, and does not give their child enough attention. Is this what you meant? Can you really know something that all of us who are dealing with this do not know? Do you realize that part of the agony of attachment disorder is the ignorance of the people around us? Do you know the nights we mothers have spent weeping over our children? Do you know the hours I, personally, have spent praying for my precious baby? Begging God to help her accept our love? Do you know that I gave up my life this entire last year because I quickly discovered that she could not handle anything other than having mom 24/7? Do you know how long it has been since I have slept for more than 3 hours in a row because my beloved daughter has nightmares and night terrors that keep her (and me) up? Do you know the flack I have taken from virtually every member of my extended family who says, "Just love her. Babies are resilient?” Do you have any understanding of how isolating this is? How lonely this is? Do you really believe that I have made up this "nonsense?" Do you have any idea what it is like to have a baby who never looks you in the eyes? Who refuses to be held close to you? Who screams and arches her back when you try to change her diaper, hold her, rock her, sing to her, dress her, bathe her? Do you know how unbelievably difficult it is to continue to love a baby who hates you? The mothers I know who have avoidant children are heroes in my book. They love children, who, for a while, are unlovable. We comfort them at night, even though we are tired beyond description. We persevere in our love for our children because we would do anything for them.

I have two sons by birth. They are happy, well adjusted boys. I am an experienced mother. I knew very early on that something was not right with my beloved daughter. I thank God I was smart enough and brave enough to go against the flow when everyone told me I was wrong. I have worked (and yes, it is WORK) for 8 months with my daughter. She is a different person today because I was brave enough and strong enough to be the mother she needed me to be. I loved her, nurtured her, and paid her all kinds of attention. Guess what? Bonding did not happen. It took more than that. It took parenting that is counter intuitive. We are not done. We know that our beloved daughter is still not as bonded or as joyful as an 18 month old should be. We are spending the last of our savings to get her the best help that is available. We are willing to learn anything we need to, to do anything we need to, to help our daughter heal. However, according to you, if I just loved her enough, paid enough attention to her, and nurtured her, she would bond. How do you expect me to respond to that?

I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are a kind and loving person who loves your child the way all of us do. (I hope and pray you never experience what many of us have gone through with our beloved children.) I must point out to you, assuming that you are kind and loving and that you would never intentionally hurt other loving mothers, that you have. I have friends who are first time mothers, who did not have the luxury of having some confidence in their parenting skills and ability to love like I did, who have been cut to the quick because of your careless comments. You have hurt other mothers who have been through agonizing years of infertility, only to have a beloved child come home who, despite the mother's very best efforts, is unable to accept a mother's love.

Clearly, your child has not experienced any of the more severe symptoms that some of us have endured. You are very fortunate. I have to point out, however, that I do not believe it is because you loved him more than I love my daughter. I do not believe it is because you are a better nurturer than I, or that you paid him more attention. I believe, in part, it was luck, and in part, it was your child's personality and pre-adoptive experience. You should consider yourself very blessed and fortunate. Please do not criticize and dismiss the pain and agony that many of us have experienced. And, most of all, do not attribute our pain to our lack of love and devotion to our children. (a. 7mo, FC)

[angelkisses0102]

More from A4everFamily.org - HOME...

Dos & Don’ts for Family & Friends Do

1. Offer household help (running errands, preparing meals that can go right from the freezer to the oven, etc.) so the mother can spend more time holding the child.

2. Trust the mother's instincts. Even a first time mother may notice subtle symptoms that well-meaning family and friends attribute to "normal" behavior.

3. Accept that attachment issues are difficult for anyone outside of the mother to see and understand.

4. Be supportive even if you think everything looks fine to you.

5. Allow the parents to be the center of the baby's world. One grandfather, when greeting his grandson, immediately turns him back to his mom and says positive statements about his good mommy.

6. Tell the baby every time you see him what a good/loving/safe mommy he has.

7. When the parents need someone to care for the baby for a night out, offer to babysit in the child's home. (After the child has been home for a substantial period of time.)

8. As hard as it may be for you, abide by the requests of the parents. Even if the baby looks like he really wants to be with Grandma, for example, he needs to have a strong attachment to his parents first. Something as simple as passing the baby from one person to another or allowing others, even grandparents, to hold a baby who is not "attached" can make the attachment process that much longer and harder. Some parents have had to refrain from seeing certain family members or friends because they did not respect the parents' requests.

9. Accept that parenting children who are at-risk for or who suffer from attachment issues goes against traditional parenting methods and beliefs. Parenting methods that work for many children can be detrimental to a child with attachment issues.

10. Remember that there is often a honeymoon period after the child arrives. Many babies do not show signs of grief, distress, or anxiety until months after they come home. If the parents are taking precautions, they are smart and should be commended and supported!


Don't

1. Assume an infant is too young to suffer from emotional issues related to attachment. Babies are not immune.

2. Underestimate a new mother's instincts that something isn't right.

3. Judge the mother's parenting abilities. What looks like spoiling or coddling may be exactly what the child needs to overcome a serious attachment disorder. Parenting methods that work for many children can be detrimental to a child with attachment issues.

4. Make excuses for the child's behaviors or try to make the mother feel better by calling certain behaviors "normal". For example, many children who suffer from attachment issues may be labeled strong-willed by well-meaning family members. While being strong-willed can be seen as a positive personality trait, this type of behavior in an attachment-impaired child may signify problems.

5. Accuse the mother of being overly sensitive or neurotic. She is in a position to see subtle symptoms as no one else can.

6. Take it personally if asked to step back so the parents can help their child heal and form a healthy and secure attachment. You may be asked not to hold the baby for more than a minute. This is not meant to hurt you. It is meant to help prove to the baby who his mommy and daddy are. Up until now the child's experience has been that mommies are replaceable. Allowing people to hold the baby before he has accepted his forever mommy and daddy are can be detrimental to the attachment process.

7. Put your own timeframes on how long attachment should take. One mother was hurt when she was chastised by a relative who couldn't understand...after all, the baby had been home six months. It could take weeks, months, even years. Every child is different.

8. Offer traditional parenting advice. Some well-meaning family members will tell a new mother not to pick the baby up every time he cries because it will spoil him. A child who is at-risk or who suffers from attachment issues must be picked up every single time he cries. He needs consistent reinforcement that this mommy/daddy will always take care of him and always keep him safe.

9. Fall into the appearance trap. Some babies/toddlers with attachment issues can put on a great show to those outside of the mother/father. What you see is not always a true picture of the child. Even babies as young as 6-months-old are capable of “putting on a good face” in public.

10. Lose hope. With the right kind of parenting and therapy, a child with attachment issues can learn to trust and have healthy relationships. But it does take a lot of work and a good understanding of what these children need

[mikeintexas]

I tend to agree with folks that keeping contact to you and your DH is the way to go. Ideally, that is what will be best for facilitating attachment.

With that said, my attachment therapist recently said that the grandparents are seen as an extension of us (me and my wife). He was far less concerned about the interaction with the grandparents as he was with aunts and uncles, etc., who aren't around as much.

I think you want the grandparents to be in the picture. I would do the best you can in keeping it to a minimum.

[GCS]

We also had to draw a hard line in the sand with my ILs. Sam and my FIL have such a wonderful connection, it really is unexplainable how close these two are -kindered spirits. FIL traveled with us to pick him up and they bonded quickly and easily.
The problem happened when we got home and they wanted Sam to sleep there, sit on Gpa's lap while he ate, all no-nos for attachment and we were struggling with indiscriminate attachment already with him.
I finally just pulled him away and we had to be "busy" a lot when they wanted to get together. They were not happy with us, but I think now they understand. I also made it clear that we conforted him, we fed him, we co-slept with him or put him down for bed - and only us. Whenever they acted inappropriately, I picked him up and removed him from that situation. It was hard because I also had the baby and because DH wasnt really on board with AP at first. He thought I was over reacting.

Christina

[waitinginnj]

If talking hasn't helped, I would write your thoughts in a letter. It will demonstrate how much you believe in what you are saying and give you the opportunity to express:
how thrilled you are that your children are loved [list][*]that this transition process won't last forever[*]that you will find so much joy when you can see your[*]children interact with their grandparents in the future, when it is the right time and healthy
for them.[list]

Sometimes the written word is much more influential that the spoken word, esepcially when it is an emotional time for either party.

If they can't respect your thoughts after that, it becomes their problem and you have to let it go.

Good luck.

[Remmy]

Hi,

I understand. My Mom had been living with us, and at first we let her have contact, but then the kids were bonding to her over us. So, I had to ask her to move out! She had NO contact for over 6 months.

Yikes! She was pretty upset, and very hurt. But it is good we stood our ground. This kids are doing very well now, and now that some time is passed, she is over it and gets to see them on most weekends.

I still get upset when she does too much like tries to feed them or comfort them, and they have been home 2 years this coming December. I am not as concerned as when she lived here though and wanted to pick them up and kiss them everytime she saw them.

Hold your ground, you are doing the right thing. They will understand later, and even if they do not, you will know you did the right thing for your kids.

Good luck!

Renae

[tigger44]

Oh, honey, your post reads just like several of mine over the last year. We had to work so hard on this issue with our DD and with the family members, especially my husband's parents. Long story short, I am hardly on speaking terms with them now, and we see them much less often than we used to. MOST of our family members understood the situation and complied with our requests to back off and limit their touching. We allowed NO holding, except maybe a minute or two here or there, usually when a grandparent was feeling selfish and just snatched her up. Our daughter came home at 11 months and has been home just over a year. Really, her affection with anyone other than mom or dad was diminished maybe 2-3 months ago. I talk with her about it all the time, and when I know we will be visiting with family members I explain to her BEFORE the visit how she is to behave (no lap sitting, no hugging, etc.) She finally became fearful of strangers, and is actually uncomfortable when someone else touches her, or tries to pick her up. I am so thankful to be at this point, but it was so much work.

Before we brought DD home we copied articles on attachment and gave them to all family members, and told them what the "rules" would be with our child. My in-laws were not easy though, and they never really understood. I honestly think they beleived that all those rules where for everyone else. They broke every rule and even begged to let DD spend the night with them, and to just "drop her off for them to care for on Saturdays while I did my shopping".

They have finally just stopped arguing with my husband and have backed off. I am sure they think that we just don't want to be around them, or don't want to have DD get to know them (at least this is what they have claimed in the past). They have made it totally about them, and as you have indicated, they didn't understand that the affection DD poured over them was the same she poured over a complete stranger. They were just ecstatic that their granddaughter was, what looked to them, "crazy about her Grandpa and Grandma". I am growing some thick skin though. The situation with the in-laws may get worse before it gets better, but thankfully they are staying away, although there are hurt feelings. However, we have to do what is best for DD. She is our priority, and her issues will always be our priority.

TAke care of yourself and your family, and don't let the in-laws get to you. They are grown ups and should understand and accept what the girls need. The girls are innocent and do not have a clue yet what grandparents are. There is plenty of time for them to have a relationship with grandparents when they are healed and have complete trust in mom and dad.