[KiraLin]

It is so good to see so many important points about our children and their struggles raised here. Although my dd has attached beautifully she has sensory issues, possible FAS, and probable ADHD (to young for formal diagnosis) and so she still has some of the same symptoms as kids with RAD. One thing that I have found over and over in the kids I have worked with (child psychologist) is that sometimes it really is impossible to say which issues are developmental, which are related to adoption, which to RAD, or Sensory etc. In spite of my lengthy training and experience I still have found that kids with a complicated history (ie. adoption, foster, trauma, family illness, etc. and often more than one) are the most challenging both for clinicians and for parents because it is difficult to know what is driving a behavior. These are the kids most often misdiagnosed, over or under treated. I strongly believe that the parents of these children are really the "experts" on their child, not us so called experts. I sat for 2hours with a social worker today giving her my dd's social/developmental history for her first IEP evaluation as she is about to age out of early intervention. Despite all of her previous evals, all the information given, etc. She still downplayed the concern about FAS saying "Oh it is the men who drink in Russia, not the women". It was all I could do to restrain myself from verbally going to town on this women. She just does not get it. It is so isolating to have so many people not understand what it is like to raise children with these issues. They are "Invisible Disabilities" that most cannot see or understand. I have taken a break from work to spend more time with dd but when I go back this is an area of practice that I hope to go into. The need is so great I know that I can only provide a drop in the bucket. I have been lucky as most of my friends do get it because most of them also work with kids as well.

I hope everyone that is struggling to help their children with all of these issues also remembers that we can't help our kids till we help ourselves. (I have to constantly remind myself to so please don't think I am on a soapbox).

[maddensmom]

Originally Posted by Russiamomto3

I was NOT saying not to follow your gut. I by all means, would never tell someone not to worry, am one of those people living with a RAD child. I am the one people were bashing on another thread telling me 6 months wasn't enough to give our 6 year old before we decided to disrupt. She has RAD and it too much for our family to handle.
My post was to mearly say, there is a differance between RADs and normal toddler behavior. RAD is real, but it needs to be determined by the professionals, especially because some of the behaviors can LOOK like normal toddler behavior. There are all the checklists etc, but those checklists have things on them that could be something as simple as Toddler Behavior.
So yeah, follow your gut and have your child evaluated, get you child everything he/she needs and get it as soon as possible so that you can stop the cycle.
Mike~ you make a good point about all the kids having some sort of AD issue. All 3 of my kids other adopted at 10 months, 12.5 months and 21 months had some degree of AD, but have since been able to overcome that, it took time and patience but we were able to get though it, they were young enough to be able to "retrain" themselves to learn to trust, learn to attach.

I am so glad you cleared that up. Hearing this:

I think 18 months MIGHT be a bit young to determine RAD. What you describe sounds much like normal Toddler behavior (been there done that 2x's and in the process of the terrible 2's AGAIN). The doctors told me that just because they are called the terrible 2's doesn't mean they start at 2, our youngest started a just around 16-18 months and is STILL going strong.

I admit it just makes me cringe. I am so glad you didn't mean it like I took it.

[Javalita]

Originally Posted by madden's.mom

Just had to chime in here... I knew something was wrong with my 6 month old. Yes, 6 months and he was definately not ok. Could anyone else have noticed it? Nope. Probably not.

Hi there,
I'm sorry that you've had a hard road. I've been wondering how things are with you since I don't get to visit this forum that often these days.

I wanted to chime in about your statement here. I wrote in the prayers for Mike thread about isolation and the subtle signs we see as parents. Sometimes people ask me about DS (22 mos - attachment challenges, but making progress) and what he does. For us, it is subtle and not obvious to others.

When he's in setback mode (like now - aaargh!) he does things like:

-pointing at a book and naming the baby, daddy, etc., but refusing to point/name the Mama. Like she doesn't exist in the picture.
-squinting his eyes really tight when I look at him. sometimes he says "no, no, no" at the same time. he doesn't want me to look at him
-freaking out when i stand in front of a mirror holding him. he doesn't want to see us hugging or close. how sad.

These things seem insignificant to people not involved. Just toddler behaviour. Anything to take away - listen to your heart and your head. Don't listen to what well-meaning family/friends/strangers have to say. You know.

[karenjoe]

I just wanted to chime in one more time. This is all very good information! For our daughter, I'm going to just keep an eye on her and be aware for now. We will find an attachment therapist if things progress in a negative manner. To be honest, I don't have any gut feeling that something is wrong with her. In most instances she seems to be attaching well, sleeps well, likes to sit in my lap etc. She even was stroking her brother's face when he was crying (after falling down) the other day and I didn't get a vibe that it was manipulative in any way. Mostly her main RAD "red flag" is willfullness/stubbornness which I think may just be her personality. I do think that it's easy to panic reading that list. However, I do agree that being aware and INFORMED is an important part of being an adoptive parent (and not necessarily listening to other well meaning friends/families advice). Thanks again everyone!

[angelkisses0102]

Russiamomto3...

I am sorry if you felt ganged up on...it was certainly not my intent either...

Kira, MM, Java~

It is sooo hard because no one else understands...we too are having a huge setback in the last few days...Alex screams 'NO, NO, NO' and shakes his head when I tell him I love him right now. We are back to holding time and it is a nightmare...but is working...thankfully. I know for me, hearing 'terrible 2's' all the time makes me want to scream...along with 'he's a boy', 'oh, it's just him', 'that's just his personality', and 'he's just a toddler'...none of it helps and just sinks me further into isolation. Dang ladies...too bad we are closer...but I don't think we could actually be any further apart geographically.

Kris~
I would love to read Rita's whole article/paper...her others were so much more intense...that one surprised me.

Mike~
You are sooo right...AD/RAD is not really alike in 2 kids...and that's what makes it so hard for everyone else to understand. And thanks for stepping out and sharing so much with us!

Stephanie~
Thanks so much for starting this thread!

[carrie2adopt]

Can RAD be overcome? Can they fully heal from it? This is a really good thread, especially given that folks with first hand experience are responding.

Are there other resources...what books are good to read on this topic? I'd appreciate it if someone could pm any suggestions to me. I'm waiting on a referral and RAD and FAS are my biggest fears in IA. I've read Building the Bonds of Attachment, but I'd like to read more than just that. Thanks :-)

[angelkisses0102]

Originally Posted by carrie2adopt

Can RAD be overcome? Can they fully heal from it?

Maybe, maybe not...depends on the age of the child at adoption, the age the child begins treatment (usually there is a lag, sometimes significant lag between adoption, acknowledgement that they may be an attachment issue, diagnosis, acceptence of diagnosis, and ultimately treatment), the depth of the issues within the child, and honestly, the child (and family's) willingness to do what it takes to heal.

Statistics say the younger the child is at adoption and begins treatment, the higher the chance for recovery. The 'magic' age is about age 6...from what I understand, at that point if it has not been addressed, the chances of healing the child are low.

I can say my son is healing...he is still AD...but not a baby RAD'ish...so he is getting better.

[GCS]

Just to chime in on a little different experience with attachment parenting.

I was surprised to see that both my children had attachment challenges. I was all prepared to see it in our older child, but thought that at 5 months, our daughter would be too young. And this was after all my reading and preparing. You really dont understand it until you are in it.

I, too, believe that all PI children come to us with different levels of attachment issues. I shudder to think what kind of problems we would be having today if we did not attachment parent both our children. I feel very fortunate to have had the information I did before we adopted.

Sophia's issue were more anxious attachment. Very clingly and overly concerned as to where I was all the time. Not interested at all in DH (but very much needing to be around Sam too). It took about 6 months for her to be comfortable with me being out of the room and about a year before I could really say that she had secure attachment. Today, 18 months home I would say that Sophia's attachment is very good.

Sam's issues were very different. I think that attachment parenting and working with that first helped us to then be able to focus on and figure out what else was going on with him. So many other PI issues overlap with attachment. Now that we are in a good place with Sam and attachment, we can start to define some of the other things he is struggling with. I am not in place where I think we are completely out of the woods with Sam and attachment. He was 3 when we brought him home and I honestly believe that he will need that much time from us to be securely attached.

I feel blessed that RAD is not an issue for us with these children, but I also know that had we not attachment parented these children, things could have gone very differently for us.

Whenever I ask myself "hmm.. can this be attachment related?" I just assume it is and respond as such.

Christina

[KiraLin]

Carrie,

Yes some children do heal completely from RAD, I could not tell you how many but I have had the pleasure of working with a child starting from age 7 when she went into Foster Care for the second time to now when she is 15. She did have RAD and she is now functioning beautifully and I only see her once in a blue moon as she is really fine. One of the differences for her was being adopted by her longterm foster family with a single mom who was willing to do whatever this child needed. So yes it can and does happen, but as always outcome depends on so very many issues. I think for all of us, myself and dd included, it is perhaps better to enjoy the small victories along the way then to think about a "cure" per say. All kids (all people for that matter) have issues, just a question of which issues to which degree.

[mikiment]

Just wanted to say how much I appreciate these informative threads and the great info contained, as well as the willingness of participants to share their real life experiences. While I enjoy many of the "fun" threads and think there is certainly a time and place for all, I especially appreciate these "meaty" topics that can educate us all so much.

Thanks to everyone for sharing. Great stuff.

[mikeintexas]

This has been one heck of a day... I think my wife is on her way to the store to get her a pint of Ben & Jerry's ice cream! Julia was defiant all day and threw many fits - all of them were control battles. During one of her more heavy-duty fits, Della took Julia into the rocking chair to hold her and calm her down. Julia fought the holding the whole time... she did NOT want to be held still by Della. Mercy!

Most of you do not know, but we started parenting along the strategies recommended by Nancy Thomas. She writes on attachment and how to parent RAD kids. We started this in mid-April. Since then, Julia's anger has slowly intensified, largely because we are taking all control away from her and she has figured out she is losing. Nancy writes that it takes one month per age of the child, so Julia is 7 and we'll hope to start seeing some changes in 7 months. We're 1 1/2 months into this.

A parent friend of mine from another RAD board sold me a computer program called Journey to Wild Divine. It is based on biofeedback and teaches you how to relax. I've been working for two days with Julia on making a purple ball go up in the air. She has sensors connected to three fingers on her left hand. The more she relaxes, the higher the purple ball goes! She managed to relax quite nicely once I focused her on that task and got her settled. It helped her get through her dinner. If you are interested in the program, look it up on the web. I'm also using it to help me with relaxation.

Ok, just wanted to share some more "meat" per Kim's response above. Hopefully my wife will be home soon with TWO pints of that ice cream.

Mike

[Pinkie]

Fantastic thread - thank you. I've not had an awful lot of time these past few days to read everything properly but will do as soon as possible.

Mike , I've been meaning to PM you the last few days but just not had the time. Thinking of you and your family and sending my prayers, faith and strength across the oceans, over the moutains and through our beautiful sky.

[drazil65]

Karen, great info as usual and wonderful insight. I am so sorry you have been struggling these past couple of days, you have had an incredible journey these last couple of years and have proven time and time again that you are the stronger force, Thank God it was your family that adopted Alex and not one that might have denied any issues early on because he was 8 months old. I will keep you in my prayers!

Christina, thank you for posting your thoughts above as this is just the way I feel about the attachment parenting we have been doing since bringing Adrian home. When I look back on the last year and a half and think about it I am so thankful I had the information and education to use attachment parenting in our lives. I am still so amazed and floored at the same time when I read about people that brought home infants and are still in such denial that PI kids have any issues. I read it here all of time from people that brought home infants a couple of years ago that "had no issues because they were so young" or "my child bonded with me instantly in Russia" or "we have not had any issues and I am so surprised that my child has attached already and we have been home for 2 weeks". Thank you for posting about your DD being only 5 months old and having issues (mild but still issues). We too deal with minor issues and I know his triggers but they are just part of our life and we adjust as needed in our parenting. We owe it to him as his parents.

Attachment issues can be denied or you can "wing" it and hope for the best but you will probably be posting here in a couple of years asking the forum "is this normal behavior?" Sorry but it is real and it exist, like it or not its part of adopting a child from an institution. Parents that adopt IA kids from an institution have an obligation to be educated (your responsibility in the long run no matter what your Agency did or did not do) especially if you are regular readers of this forum and have so much info on it already.