[Russiamomto3]

Karen,
I think 18 months MIGHT be a bit young to determine RAD. What you describe sounds much like normal Toddler behavior (been there done that 2x's and in the process of the terrible 2's AGAIN). The doctors told me that just because they are called the terrible 2's doesn't mean they start at 2, our youngest started a just around 16-18 months and is STILL going strong.
Our 6 year old has most of those on the list, and the therapist has put RAD as the underlying condition to her PTSD, which is severe. She was with her bio parents until she was 1 year 4 months then in the orphanages until we adopted her at 5 years 8 months. So she had the early year to form attachments, but then they were taken away, which we think did the most damage in causing the RAD, whereas, our other children were all given up at birth and have none or MILD attachment issues. I really think what happens in the first year makes a differance.

[HopefullMama]

This is all great information. I was wondering if anyone knew the percentage of children adopted from Russia that have RAD. Before I had done any research, a friend told me she didn't think I should adopt from Russia because she had thought that ALL or MOST kids have attachment problems. I had gotten this impression too from the media. But since lurking on these boards I know that it isn't the case! But I'm still wondering percentages... Also can you tell from a referral or video before adoption?

[mikeintexas]

My opinion (not shared by all, but nevertheless a viable one) is that most children will come out of orphanages with some attachment deficiency.

This, however, does NOT mean that the child will have attachment problems, an attachment disorder, or RAD. Many children come from the orphanage and do just fine provided the parent does attachment parenting. You'll find many people around here with normally attached kids.

The important thing is to be aware that the likelihood exists. No matter what, the parent should be doing all things possible to facilitate attachment from the get-go.

As for knowing ahead of time if the child has attachment issues... no, I do not think this is normally possible. Children in orphanages are not living in a family desiring emotional closeness. Caregivers come and go as do many of the children around them. We looked for all the visible signs of RAD when we were at the orphanage with Julia and none were seen. She made eye contact, let us hold her, came to us right away, wanted to be held by us, etc. But this is all superficial. Once the child gets into a situation involving a family where trust and control issues are salient, the attachment problems emerge.

Those are my opinions, of course. Others will have great things to add.

Mike

[angelkisses0102]

Originally Posted by karenjoe

Angelkisses - thank you for all of the info! A question: Is it possible that it is normal to have some of these issues but not all? Or is it something that should be checked out? For example, our daughter is 18 months old. I've thought of her as strong-willed. She cries/gets angry at trivial things. However, she makes eye contact, sleeps well through the night and doesn't seem to have a problem sitting in my lap or being held (though still doesn't really like being cradled). She does understand "no" and gets upset if you tell her no in a strong voice. Would you consider this just issues that come up as you form/grow attachment? Or is it all warning signs of RAD?

If you are asking...get it checked out by a qualified attachment therapist...yes a child as young as 18 months (even younger) can (and some do) have RAD. Again early treatment is the best possibly for a full recovery...as high 100% in infants...80% in toddlers....lowering until about age 6. Only you know your child but trust your gut...I am so happy I did.

Attachment disorder and RAD are two different things...I would suspect if you have more than a couple of the items on the checklist...that it is time for intervention. Really read those red flag phrases...

Many of us had a nagging feeling that something just wasn’t quite right. But many of us also admit to using these phrases to spend some time living in denial; time that is precious and irretrievable for finding and implementing the correct treatment.

[angelkisses0102]

Originally Posted by HopefullMama

This is all great information. I was wondering if anyone knew the percentage of children adopted from Russia that have RAD. Before I had done any research, a friend told me she didn't think I should adopt from Russia because she had thought that ALL or MOST kids have attachment problems. I had gotten this impression too from the media. But since lurking on these boards I know that it isn't the case! But I'm still wondering percentages... Also can you tell from a referral or video before adoption?

No hard statistics on how many have problems so to speak...but all have to learn to attach to you and form a healthy emotional secure bond. To answer your other question...no way to tell... You would not know right away...these kids are superfically charming, they are appealing in every sense of the word...they will 'turn on the charm' and 'work a room' like nobody's business. They do great in any non-intimate setting...like daycare or school. The group atmosphere of an orphanage is the perfect setting for them...they do NOT have to expose themselves to bonding and attaching...and thus openeing themselves to be hurt again. When the hurt and anger...rage...terror...come out is when they are forced to begin to bond and attach. The closer you try to become, the further and harder they push you away. That is why there is what is called the honeymoon phase...this will typically last for anywhere from about 3 to 6 months. Once the child then realizes that you are not going away...their instinct to self protect comes out. And that is not pretty and almost impossible to understand until you live with one of these kids.


A true healthy emotional bond takes about two years to form...however, some kids, like my DD transition so smoothly that it is truly a non-event.

Also, many, many people make two 'misunderstandings' regarding their child's attachment and how they describe it.

First is to confuse a dependency bond as a true secure emotional bond. This happens in infant adoption most often. The parents will say...oh she attached to us in the hotel...he attached right away. Actually the infant knows it needs you to survive...and that is all that bond is. They are dependent upon you for survival. Now that can progress to a secure bond but it takes time...a lot of time for any child older than 6 months (and many say any aged infant) to bond completely.

Second is when people say...'oh my child/baby is overattached to me.' That they cling, only want mommy, can't be put down etc. There is no such thing as 'overattached'...that is not healthy, secure attachment. That is insecure/anxious attachment. Some kids struggle with this but once the new primary caregiver proves themselves, the child continues on the road to healthy attachment. If they struggle...they may end up fine with some strong attachment parenting from the primary caregiver or they may end up as DS...he is truly attachment disordered.

Either way...the possibility of healing the child is great, especially with kids under 6 or kids who have attached to someone...anyone in their past. But acknowledgement of the issue and aggresive treatment is needed. Time and love do not make it better...on their own.

Notes on Attachment
by Arthur Becker-Weidman, Ph.D.


A high percentage of the children that I see are foster or adopted children who have lived in one or more foster homes and have suffered from neglect and/or abuse. Often the children come with a diagnosis of Oppositional Defiant Disorder [ODD] or Conduct Disorder [CD]. Many have a secondary diagnosis of Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). The child's symptoms could also be understood as a Post Traumatic Stress Disorder or depression stemming from a delayed grief reaction in response to one or more significant losses early in childhood. Whatever the diagnosis is, it is important that the developmental history receives the consideration required to provide the appropriate treatment.

Because attachment is developed in the first years of life, often times the trauma driving the child's pathology is preverbal. The child needs a solid educational component of treatment for the child to understand what force is driving the feelings and controlling the child's behavior. The parents also need the education and understanding that the child's behavior is not caused from their parenting, but from past traumas. From this base then, new parenting interventions can be designed from a cooperative relationship to fit a child with special needs.

Attachment is the base upon which emotional health, social relationships, and one's world view are built. The ability to trust and form reciprocal relationships will affect the emotional health, security and safety of the child, as well as the child's development and future interpersonal relationships. The attachment-disordered child does whatever she feels like, with no regard for others. She is unable to feel remorse for wrongdoing, mainly because she is unable to internalize right and wrong. This child may be savvy enough to speak knowledgeably about standards and values, but cannot truly understand or believe what she is saying. The child may tell you that something is wrong, but that will not stop her from doing it.

Children who are adopted after the age of 6 months or so are at risk for attachment problems. Normal attachment develops during the child's first two years of life. Problems with the parent-child relationship during that time, or breaks in the consistent caregiver-child relationship, prevent attachment from developing normally. There is a wide range of attachment problems that result in varying degrees of emotional disturbance in the child. The severity of attachment disorder seems to result from the number of breaks in the bonding cycle and the extent of the child's emotional vulnerability.

Emotional vulnerability can be affected by a variety of factors including: genetic factors; prenatal development including maternal drinking and drug abuse; pre-natal nutrition and stress; Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and Fetal Alcohol Effect; temperament; and birth parent history of mental illness (schizophrenia, manic depressive illness, etc.). One thing is certain: if an infant's needs are not met consistently in a loving, nurturing way, attachment will not occur normally.

So how can we tell the difference between a child who "looks" attached, and a child who really is making a healthy, secure attachment? This question becomes important for adoptive families, because some adopted children will form an almost immediate dependency bond to their adoptive parents. To mistake this as secure and healthy attachment can lead to many problems down the road. Just because a child calls someone "Mom" or "Dad," snuggles, cuddles, and says "I love you," does not mean that the child is attached, or even attaching. Saying, "I love you," and knowing what that really feels like can be two different things. Attachment is a process. It takes time. The key to its formation is trust, and trust becomes secure only after repeated testing.

Normal attachment takes a couple of years of cycling through mutually positive interactions. The child learns that he is loved, and can love in return. The parents give love, and learn that the child loves them. The child learns to trust that his needs will be met in a consistent and nurturing manner, and that the he "belongs" to his family, and they to him. Positive interaction. Trust. Claiming. Reciprocity (the mutual meeting of needs, give and take). These must be consistently present for an extended period of time for healthy, secure attachment to take place. It is through these elements that a child learns how to love and how to accept love.

Older adopted children need time to make adjustments to their new surroundings. They need to become familiar with their caregivers, friends, relatives, neighbors, teachers and others with whom they will have repeated contact. They need to learn the ins and outs of their new household routines and adapt to living in a new physical environment. Some children have cultural or language hurdles to overcome. Until most of these tasks have been accomplished, they may not be able to relax enough to allow the work of attachment to begin. In the meantime, behavioral problems related to insecurity and lack of attachment, as well as to other events in the child's past, may start to surface. Some start to get labels like, "manipulative," "superficial," or "sneaky." Sooner or later the family may decide that this kid is all "take" and no "give." The child "gives" only when it is to his own benefit. The child can seem to be very selfish and controlling. On the inside, she is filled with anxiety. She has not developed the self-esteem that comes with feeling she's a valued, contributing member of a family. The child cares little about pleasing others, since her relationship with them is quite superficial.


FIRST YEAR OF LIFE CYCLE
by Arthur Becker-Weidman, Ph.D.


The first year is a year of needs. When the infant has a need, it initiates attachment behavior in order to summon a nurturing response from the attachment figure. The need-gratifying response usually includes touch, eye contact, movement, smiles and lactose. When gratification occurs, trust is built. This cycle occurs hundreds of times a week and thousands of times in the first year. From this relationship, a synchronicity develops between parent and child. The caregiver develops a greater awareness of the child and learns just how to respond. The child develops good cause-and-effect thinking, feels powerful, trusts others, shows exploratory behavior and develops empathy and a conscience.

Parenting children with attachment difficulties is a job that requires a great deal of patience, understanding, courage, solid support systems and personal fortitude. Children with attachment difficulties rarely and only superficially return love. Therapists, teachers, child protective services and even spouses often do not understand the challenge and deception an attachment-disordered child displays toward an adoptive or foster parent in charge of primary care. Often times the child will project the greatest amount of pathology towards the mother figure in an attempt to make the world believe that if the mother was not so harsh and controlling, the child would be as lovable as he superficially displays.

Therapists often times are introduced to attachment disorder cases by witnessing a burned-out parent in their office who is angry, resentful and full of blame toward their child. The child, however, is engaging, full of energy, innocent and displaying confusion at the parent's anger. Unfortunately, the therapist reacts by thinking (and sometimes saying), "If this mom would just lighten up on this kid, she would not have so many problems." This can lead the therapist to scolding the parent much in the same way the parent scolds the child. Many well-intentioned but naive healthcare workers believe that, "All this kid needs is love," and end up creating an alliance with the child against the parents that further prevents the family getting the help they desperately need.

TREATMENT

The basic purpose of attachment therapy is to help the child resolve a dysfunctional attachment. The goal is to help the child bond to the parents and to resolve the fear of loving and being loved.

A major dynamic in the treatment is the affective regressive work needed to heal the emotional wounds that drive these children's behavior. Therapeutic holding allows the child to access deep, genuine, and intense emotions needed to work through the feelings, not simply get over them. A corrective emotional experience is orchestrated when allowing the child to express these feelings, recognize and recall them, and identify the events and the people involved. In essence, the child going through this experience with their parents allows for resolution of old pathological emotions while simultaneously creating powerful new bonds.

[Kasey]

Originally Posted by mikeintexas

My opinion (not shared by all, but nevertheless a viable one) is that most children will come out of orphanages with some attachment deficiency.

This, however, does NOT mean that the child will have attachment problems, an attachment disorder, or RAD. Many children come from the orphanage and do just fine provided the parent does attachment parenting. You'll find many people around here with normally attached kids.

The important thing is to be aware that the likelihood exists. No matter what, the parent should be doing all things possible to facilitate attachment from the get-go.

As for knowing ahead of time if the child has attachment issues... no, I do not think this is normally possible. Children in orphanages are not living in a family desiring emotional closeness. Caregivers come and go as do many of the children around them. We looked for all the visible signs of RAD when we were at the orphanage with Julia and none were seen. She made eye contact, let us hold her, came to us right away, wanted to be held by us, etc. But this is all superficial. Once the child gets into a situation involving a family where trust and control issues are salient, the attachment problems emerge.

Those are my opinions, of course. Others will have great things to add.

Mike

Mike--I think you summed that up very nicely--well said!

Thanks to karen and stephanie for the lists, always good to have the extra info!!

Karenjoe, I agree that alot of that sounds like normal toddler behavior, seen in every one of the toddlers I have ever been around including my own. As my DH says, the toddler mood swings can be worse than his wife with PMS
But if you feel there are other things on the list or you have nagging doubts, then by all means seek some help or maybe have an offline chat with someone here with more experience. You know your child best, so listen to your gut!!

[mikeintexas]

Originally Posted by Kasey

As my DH says, the toddler mood swings can be worse than his wife with PMS

Hmmmmm.

Some points above bear repeating:

1. Noticing attachment disorder/development is a PROCESS. It takes time.

2. Karen's point above about the difference between depending upon you for their needs versus emotional security is critically important.

3. Regular therapists can NOT treat attachment disorders (or RAD) ... their approach can do more harm than good.

4. Parenting an attachment-challenged child is almost completely opposite of parenting one who is not. Make sure you read up on this.

Mike

[Kasey]

Here is one of the resources we had to read as part of our prep the first time around, I had it saved and have found it helpful, not sure though if the link will get deleted so you can pm me for it.
The title:Is it toddlerhood or adoption.
http://www.adopting.org/adoptions/ad...-adoption.html

wanted to add my apologies for my attempt at interjecting humor into my previous post, I had just been thinking of what my DH said in response to my overtired 2yr olds behavior on Sunday and was chuckling to myself--sorry.

[angelkisses0102]

Is she addressing parents of PI kids? I don't see where it is mentioned...so without further info...I would read much, much more than one over simplistic article such as that...her other articles tend to be much more informative though.
http://library.adoption.com/author/Rita-Taddonio-CSW/1928/1.html

[maddensmom]

Originally Posted by Russiamomto3

Karen,
I think 18 months MIGHT be a bit young to determine RAD. What you describe sounds much like normal Toddler behavior (been there done that 2x's and in the process of the terrible 2's AGAIN). The doctors told me that just because they are called the terrible 2's doesn't mean they start at 2, our youngest started a just around 16-18 months and is STILL going strong.

Just had to chime in here... I knew something was wrong with my 6 month old. Yes, 6 months and he was definately not ok. Could anyone else have noticed it? Nope. Probably not. And at 18 months, yes, I was VERY concerned about RAD. As his mother, I knew there was a difference between what a normal toddler would do and what my child was capable of. he could not look at your eyes, he could not sit on your lap, he could not be dressed, changed, or fed without extreme tantrums, he could not be cradled, he would not sleep in my arms, he could care less if I left, he would go to anyone and then no one, he was anxiety ridden and panicky... shall I go on? Normal 2 year old behavior? Nope. And let me tell you, it is absolutely devastating. It can break you heart and crush you to pieces. And to think that it is doing that multiplied to the child. All when that child is, yes, only 18 months old.
Is my child RAD? No idea yet. He is trying and so am I. But I had a lot, A LOT, of people tell me that the things he was doing were normal and that I was over-reacting. That is the real problem. A parent knows when things are not right with their child. When did we begin to argue with the people who know best? Why do parents have to fight to be heard and helped?

[Kasey]

Karen,
Yes, she does address it in the full thing I have for our education packet, I guess the whole thing doesn't come up with the link (sorry).
I just wrote down the link that was at the bottom of a paper copy I have.

There was actually a great paper I have which showed typical behavior (infant-preschool) and red flags, it is a comparison type chart, given to us by our IA doc, but I only have it on paper. We got a similar thing from our HS agency as well.
It really has helped alot.

Like I said in my original post, parents know their kids the best, so listening to your gut is the way to go!!

[Abdulina]

I know alot has been written since I started this thread and that's a good thing. There is so much information out there on RAD and it is NOT a common place thing. There are many, many people who've adopted children that have become well attached. I know, I have a few of those too. There are MANY, MANY disorders that overlap in their symptoms. Trust me on this one. It is sometimes very hard to distinguish one from another. Most children with FAS have more than one disorder b/c typically, ADHD is a part of the FAS itself whether in severe or mild form. RAD has some symptoms that many could say my kid does that. Well, yes, kids do all kinds of things. But it is the magnitude and intesity by which these RAD kids do things. A tantrum is very much different than a rage. I've experience severe rages over the years and it is difficult. I guess I'm just very much trying to say don't read into things but do be aware. Hard line to cross, I know. Don't listen to other parents going oh, that's just normal kids/ toddler/ baby behavior---NO!!! Trust your gut. You know your kids best and if instinct tells you there is something wrong, than there probably is. And regular therapists can not help a child w/ RAD. ONly an attachment therapist. I won't even go into what we did with our RAD son to help him heal as it would be so "taboo" on this board. Suffice it to say, we did not go to a therapist. (one was not available). We did healing on our own w/ him and that is a very contraversial thing in the RAD world of things and not recommended. We had absolutely no choice. Glad we did things and there is hope. The motto in our house is "with every new day comes fresh hope." We say this every single morning. RAD children can come a long way but it is a very different parenting style that few understand. This makes it hard on us as parents when in public or around family and friends. They just do not understand the daily struggles or how proud we are on even the smallest of accomplishments. That's why it is critical if your child does indeed have RAD, to join others with RAD children for support. I am truly amazed at how far my son has come and maybe it is time I shared my story about Alex on the forum. To give people an idea of the ups and downs of having a child with RAD. It develops over time and something you won't really notice the little bit of time you spend w/ your child in the orphanage. I think all RAD parents will attest to that. I won't get on a long-winded speech. I just want people to really trust their gut when it comes to your children. You know them best. They are yours and you will know if there is something wrong. And if there is, don't worry, just get the proper help and support ot help heal your son or daughter. Thanks so much for all the articles on here. I am glad we were able to get some of this information out on the subject of RAD.

Take care,

[mikeintexas]

Originally Posted by Kasey

wanted to add my apologies for my attempt at interjecting humor into my previous post, I had just been thinking of what my DH said in response to my overtired 2yr olds behavior on Sunday and was chuckling to myself--sorry.

Oh Kris - I laughed OUT LOUD at your earlier quote about PMS!!! I meant to re-interject humor with my hmmmm but should have added a smiley after it.

Other issues - YES, it is hard to find others who understand. Madden's mom, I'm glad you chimed in. That was a very valuable post. Thanks to everyone for bringing attention to this issue which is rarely discussed here in the Russian forum!!!

[mikeintexas]

By the way, you don't have to have a child that is hurting pets and setting fires to have RAD.

My daughter's biggest challenge is that she cannot have meaningful relationships with people. She does not trust and she must be in control. When those are challenged, we have fits and anger. She can charm a room of strangers into thinking she's the most wonderful, delightful child in the world, then turn around and try to slam her brother's hand in the door.

RAD comes in many shapes and sizes... Just be aware of that.

[Russiamomto3]

I was NOT saying not to follow your gut. I by all means, would never tell someone not to worry, am one of those people living with a RAD child. I am the one people were bashing on another thread telling me 6 months wasn't enough to give our 6 year old before we decided to disrupt. She has RAD and it too much for our family to handle.
My post was to mearly say, there is a differance between RADs and normal toddler behavior. RAD is real, but it needs to be determined by the professionals, especially because some of the behaviors can LOOK like normal toddler behavior. There are all the checklists etc, but those checklists have things on them that could be something as simple as Toddler Behavior.
So yeah, follow your gut and have your child evaluated, get you child everything he/she needs and get it as soon as possible so that you can stop the cycle.
Mike~ you make a good point about all the kids having some sort of AD issue. All 3 of my kids other adopted at 10 months, 12.5 months and 21 months had some degree of AD, but have since been able to overcome that, it took time and patience but we were able to get though it, they were young enough to be able to "retrain" themselves to learn to trust, learn to attach.