[Ashman]

Greetings. My wife and I are considering adoption. We are trying to decide whether to go to China or Russia. I would like to solicit opinions about the pros and cons of both. If you have adopted from both even better. Many thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.

[Amysue1112]

I don't know much aboout China. We did not even look at going there b/c we had to be 30 y/o and DH isn't.
Russia is hard...very hard. Some people have it easier than others, but things change and change FAST in Russia. Always new laws, new rules. It is so stressful. If it is 50/50 for you, and you find that China is a fairly easy program, you might pick there.
I love Russia, and hate to turn you away for the kids sake. And some people find it to be smooth (especially if you want an older child). But for us, it has been very, very hard. We are almost there now, as you see in my signature, but it has been a very bumpy toad.
Good luck to yoU!
I would post on the China board too..they might be able to help on that side of things!

[proudmommyof 2]

Have you also posted this on the China boards? They can also give you a lot of information.


We actually looked into China for a 3rd adoption. Here are the pros that I found for China: It is slightly less expensive. You only make one trip (although it can be a very long one) as opposed to 2 or 3 for Russia. It seems to be more stable, as in they don't seem to change requirements or laws as often as Russia.

Here are the cons: China's referrals seem to be taking a very long time to receive. There are some long waits in Russia, but not as long as it seems in China now. I think there are currently some slowdowns in China. The slowdowns in Russia can either surprise you at any stage of the process, or not happen at all. There are some that have completed Russian adoptions in 5 or 6 months. Or there are those that have waited longer than that for just second trip dates.

The pros to both are this: you will end up with a child. I don't think you'll find anyone who has adopted from any country who is sorry that they have done so. The parents on the China boards are as head over heels for their girls as we are for our kids.

Best of luck in your decision. Let us know if you have any specific questions. If I've given you misinformation, someone will catch it!

[Vicki H]

We couldn't even look into China either, since my dh wasn't 30 yet. I am not sure of your age, but I believe both must be 30 or over.

I would just advise to read on others experiences here and on the China boards to make your decision.
No matter what decision you make, will be the right one for you.

Vicki

[waitinginnj]

To me a signficant difference between Russia and China is your participation in the matching process. You have a lot more flexibility to determine you are the right parent for a child in the Russian program. In China, it is much more difficult to refuse a referral and get a new one.

Good luck with your decision.

[nungesser]

My knowledge of China is also limited by the fact that I've not adopted from there. All I know is what I hear from other APs who've adpted from China and what I read on this forum and those like it. Hey you APs who's have sons and daughters from each country, please chime in!!

The most significant differences I've noticed are:

• China seems more centralized and consistent. Most adoptions take place in Bejing, are controlled by a more cetralized govenment agencies, and appear to be more predictable and consistent. In Russia, APs more often go out to the provincial regions. Because of that, they often deal with more local officials in region they happen to go to. Becuase of the relative de-centralized nature of adoption in Russia, it tends to be very unpredictable and inconsistent - local officials tend to make their apply the same rules differently from region to region, plus they impose their own, often very unusual, local requirements too. Consequenctly, whereas the requirements and pace of Chinese adoption usually tends toward being predictable and consistent, the requirements and pace of Russian adoption usually tends to toward arbitrary and capricious.
• Traditionally, it's nearly impossible to adopt a son from China. You may adopt both sons and daughters from Russia. Contrary to China, they are available in close to even proportions, with a modestly larger number of boys available (and usually a modestly shorter wait for a male referral) depending on region.
• International adoption seems to be less of a partisan political issue in China. That may be for several reasons. First, China is significnatly over-populated with well over one billion inhabitants and growing. Russia is significantly under-populated at approximately 138 million inhabitants and shrinking. Second, China is a single party state with a government controlled media. Russia is nominally democratic with the semblance of a multi-party political system and free press. Consequently, Russia provides more of a forum for international adoption opponents to communicate and exploit stoires related to abuse of adopted children. With Russian nationalism ascending in many segements of Russian culture, the messages become more pronounced year by year usually leading to greater and greater govenemrnt restrictions on adoption of Russian children by foreigners.

[Amysue1112]

well said Nungesseras usual!! )

[Canada Mama]

A factor for us in choosing Russia over China was that *some* information on the birthmother/family is *usually* available in Russia, and - from what I understand - this is not usually the case with adoption from China, since so many children are abandoned. Family roots are important to me, and I wanted my child to have the option to find more information in the future, if and when she chooses.

I could be wrong on this, too, however, as I have also not adopted from China. - Good luck with your choice; I agree that whatever you decide, it will be right!

[stephw3boys]

I believe that up to 50% of Chinese babies now go to foster care instead of an orphanage - which could also be a plus for bonding and attachment.

[ddlucy]

I liked the Russian program and the Romanian program (when they were open) because you got to see where your child was from. You came to appreciate their heritage - because you saw it and experienced it first hand. You got to feel the process - however frustrating that may have felt at times.

We know several couples who adopted from China (total of 4 children). None of the couples ever saw the orphanages. The children were brought to the Hotel. Their trips sounded very scritped. I find that odd.

I've also run in to couples who feel China is culturally more superior than Eastern Europe. In each case I took the time to correct them. There is nothing morally superior or culturlaly superior adotoping from China. All children are special and can use a good family - coming from China doesn't make the kid go to the top of the list.

[Jim_in_PA]

China really wasn't a good option for us...we were not interested in infant or toddler adoption and most of the kids coming out of China are very young. Yes, there are older children available, usually with special needs which we also were not ready to embrace. Russia was more viable for us due to the ability to host, etc. While we had a relatively smooth and fast process, that is often the exception over the last year or so due to changes in the system and other factors.

Whatever country you choose, your agency choice is even more important...

[DaniJ]

I had an unusual journey, not typical in many ways I admit, but if I had to do it again, I am not sure I would go with Russia, sadly. I say that because of the rules changing and the lack of consistancy: My journey, (agency issues aside), felt like a trip though a minefield of quick-sand. We got our dossier submitted and found there were new papers to fill out. We requested them and couldn't get them because the Russian officials hadn't even made them yet... they wouldn't accept our dossier without the papers they had not even yet designed! I am reading on the boards about the same ol' hang-ups and delays (vacations, holidays, change of ministry, elections etc,) in addition to the new regualtions, lack of grandfathering people in to the rules they initally signed up with, putting children back on the data-base, more and more requirements, and then you get the individual judges who decide they don't like a certain way something is phrased, or they want a paper on different letterhead, or they don't accept a Dr's opinion and they want their own doctors assessment...stuff still coming up DURING THE COURT HEARING! I just don't hear that sort of stuff coming out of China (China boards could tell you that). If Russia would make up its mind about what it requires, or allow you to grandfather in with the requirements at the time you sign up, or submit dossier, etc. I might think differently. I can't say never, but I can say 'it isn't a given' that I'd go with Russia again.

As for China having 'more culture'... HA! I was AMAZED at the history of Russia, and it really helped me understand their culture a lot, and why they behave the way they do as a nation. Just because they aren't exotic doesn't mean they don't have a rich culture!

PS: has anyone recently, like the last two or three years, gotten an adoption done in 5-6 months? It seems like Russian adoptions used to be that way, but now are taking more like 18 mo? I'm basing this on what I've been reading and seeing here, as well as my own timeline (which admittedly was delayed because of our agency)

[kimber413]

Pros for China:
1. Very quick process once you have a referral.
2. One trip, two weeks, pretty much set in stone.
3. Short hearing as soon as you arrive, then you get your child to bond with for the rest of the trip.
4. Younger children, more availability.

Cons for China:
1. Very rarely are boys available, but they are available.
2. If you have multiple children already, it takes longer to adopt.
3. Almost never are you allowed to adopt more than 1 at a time.
4. In general, it takes longer to get a referral.

Pros for Russia:
1. Boys are readily available, and if you are willing to accept up to 3 years old, you may get a referral very quickly.
2. If you want to adopt more than one child, it's very doable, especially if siblings are available.
3. You do learn more about the parents of your child most of the time. You may even get some medical history on the parent/parents.

Cons for Russia
1. FAS/FAE are more common than for China because alcohol consumption is more common.
2. Certain unfriendly government officials that want to curtail or stop adoptions always seem to be making trouble.
3. Agency accreditation is coming up due, and most agencies aren't sure how quickly it will be handled or what alternatives will be available should the re-accreditations become overdue.

Overall, we'll still probably pick Russia for next time, just because we'll be most likely adopting a boy.

DaniJ, it's great to see you back. I really do appreciate your input on these topics. You do have a unique journey to share. However, considering who your original agency was, I would be hesitant to share any part of the story they were feeding you as concrete. Given the history of that agency, the papers they said you needed to sign may not have been an issue at all, but may have been just another way for them to string you along. Maybe check out and see if others had to sign these "forms" that weren't yet available. I know we were adopting around the same time, and I had no issues with additional papers being requested. But you are right about consistency. Each region has its own requirements, and some regions are more difficult than others. I think that's something the MOE is trying to work on.

[angelkisses0102]

Originally Posted by DaniJ

PS: has anyone recently, like the last two or three years, gotten an adoption done in 5-6 months? It seems like Russian adoptions used to be that way, but now are taking more like 18 mo? I'm basing this on what I've been reading and seeing here, as well as my own timeline (which admittedly was delayed because of our agency)

We were the huge exception to the rule...in March 2004 we brought home our second child from Russia...4 months start to finish...

I think there have been several recent adoptions that have been less than 12 months start to finish...but there are not any guarantees in Russian adoption...

[Kasey]

Originally Posted by DaniJ

PS: has anyone recently, like the last two or three years, gotten an adoption done in 5-6 months? It seems like Russian adoptions used to be that way, but now are taking more like 18 mo? I'm basing this on what I've been reading and seeing here, as well as my own timeline (which admittedly was delayed because of our agency)

Well if we had gone with right agency at first it would have been very quick, but we had to switch agencies, get a HS update, re-do dossiers and still from that point until home was 4 months (April 2004-August 2004) for boy under 12 months, even with starting off wrong it was only 13 months.

This time around for girl under 18 months, we got on wait list in March (we were told 4-6 month wait for referral--so fingers crossed and we'll see)!

I don't think there are guarentees with any journey, I have seen quite a few families who switched to china only to see a slow down there now. So you just have to be preapred for anything, we are at the mercy of alot of factors, agencies, foreign countries and governments, etc..

I think bottom line is investigate the two, but you will find at some point you will feel drawn to the country you feel your child is in, so there is no right or wrong answer.
Good luck!!