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#1
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Flirty and manipulating behavior (long)
We have been home with our 18 month old for a little over six months now. She seems to be developing strong attachment skills, but I also know we need several more months of time before her attachment is solidified.
Since the first day we took custody of her, she has been very flirty, with most anyone. I've been working with her about this behavior when we are out in public, and just recently started using a different style baby carrier that allows me to hold her facing me, chest to chest (as opposed to the hip carrier), so this has reduced her interaction with other people. It has helped a lot! My challenge is when we have family members come over for a visit. DD will first show appropriate shyness and cling to me or her daddy. But after a few minutes of sizing up the guest, she will reach to be held by the guest. She will then start to gesture and point and manipulate the guest to take her over to a picture on the wall to look at, to hand her an object that has been purposefully placed out of her reach (and she knows this), to read her a book, to do anything she thinks she can manipulate them into doing for her. If she finds that her behavior is working, or that she is getting a reaction from someone, she will turn up the volume, making squishy, adorable faces, giggling, she will start to cuddle, hug, snuggle, tickle, or whatever is generally flirty with the guest. If we are eating food with our guests, and DD is running around playing, she will cozy up to the guest, or reach to be picked up by the guest, to share their food. We have strictly limited anyone else from feeding, comforting, or nurturing her. We gave all of our family members some information about her behavior and instructed them how to respond to her. I'll admit that I've expected our family members to remember our written instructions when our daughter is interacting with them, rather than speak up at that moment and remind them of the rules. We have the most problem with my husband's parents. They just eat up this behavior, thinking that it is adorable and that it is only for them. Our daughter behaves this way with EVERYONE who visits. And, the family members who visit only come once every two to three weeks, including my husbands parents. These are not people that she sees often, or knows well. Also, when we go to church, if people sitting around us start to pay close attention to her, she flirts with them during the entire service. The counselor from my adoption agency agreed that if it felt inappropriate to me that it is probably left over behavior learned in the baby home. I struggle to find the balance though. Maybe she is just an affectionate baby? She seems very outgoing and friendly, but also shows appropriate stranger anxiety at times too. When we do have guests, DD will return to me or her daddy to play or if she needs something. But, also, after the guests leave, she will start testing the limits again, and almost seem disgusted that I am enforcing the boundaries again. She is a child who needs to have the boundaries clearly defined for her. She also seems to briefly disregard me if I don't respond to her cutesiness/flirtiness. Fortunately, I can quickly reign her back in though. Should I ease up and just let her interact this way and see what becomes of it, or should I keep limiting guests to picking her up only once, sitting her down immediately if she starts her manipulating or cuddling behavior? I worry about this, but being a first time mother, I don't know how much could be normal, FOR HER, and how much could still be left over learned institutional behaviors, especially since she seems to be developing very good attachment skills with her daddy and me. When we are visiting other family member's home, DD does not behave quite this same way. She is too interesting in finding new things to get into and play with! Any suggestions/opinions/advice? Thanks! |
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#2
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In all of my reading on attachment disorders in infants and toddlers, these are both huge red flags. Manipulation is a key behavior as is being the center of attention. If I have never sent you my links, let me know I will email them to you. In terms of attachment and bonding...6 months is a very short amount of time...she has still spent the better part of her life without a loving parent or family structure. (Didn't you also post about her not wanting to sleep...control is another key red flag...by not napping she IS controlling you and the situation.)
Many will disagree with this, but limit (or eliminate) her interactions with anyone else until the behavior is gone. Completely restrict her from those who do not follow the rules. You took the time to post this, it is something that is bothering you on a gut level...trust your gut. Almost without fail, every time someone poses these sorts of questions, they already 'know' what the answer is. It is a hard thing to admit but you did not cause her issues...but you are her only life line to having normal & healthy relationships for the rest of her life. My best advice is take this challenge on now...trust me on this one...the sooner you address and correct and heal her...the better off you will all be. Use this for what it is worth to you...but I have been there and done that...in regard to attachment struggles and disorders. ***ETA*** Attachment parent, attachment, attachment parent...and then attachment parent her some more.***
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Proud Mommy to two...who have taught me I can not change their pasts but I can change me and the way I parent them~ *Yaya~My Siberian Sweetie ~born in 2001~Home 2002~Now 8 and a 'Tween', and in 3rd grade. She's all girl!!! *Bubbs~My Samaran Sunshine~born in 2003~Home 2004~now 6, in Kindy and such a sweet, silly & special boy! ![]() 'My wish, for you, is that this life becomes all that you want it to, your dreams stay big, and your worries stay small, You never need to carry more than you can hold, and while you're out there getting where you're getting to, I hope you know somebody loves you, and wants the same things too, Yeah, this, is my wish.' ~"My Wish" by Rascal Flatts Last edited by FH-angelkisses0102 : 02-23-2006 at 01:55 PM. |
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#4
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Tigger, I don't have any advise for you since I have some challenges myself w/my DS. But one of your statements (above) touches on something I've been thinking about a lot. I hope you don't mind me tagging onto that a bit.... My son does this exact same thing. Pictures on the wall, books, etc. With the books, I am of two minds on it and not sure what to think. Hoping to get your opinion and others on this. Our DS will sit with us and point to pictures in books for 30-45 minutes and want us to name everything. He wants to only do this and I am usually very happy to do so. I think it is a good thing and seems like a normal toddler thing. But then sometimes I feel like maybe it is just to point and watch us respond as he demands...like manipulation. So how do you feel about it? I don't want to deny him learning, but I don't want to feed manipulation either........
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Jeannette (aka Javalita) Sep 2003 - Began process with I 600A Mar 2004 - completed dossier submitted Dec 2004 - first trip March 18, 2005 - Named parents in Stavropol, Russia |
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#5
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I don't have any answers for you, but reading this over made me think of a close friend and roommate I had as an adult.
She was an extremely "flirty" person, and I had to talk with her more than once about this. Apparently she was like this from when she was little. No adoption involved, but it does make you wonder if that is just some people's (girls?) personalities. Karen
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MAR 04 > Signed with agency JUN 05 > Received referral AUG 05 > Trip 1 Khabarovsk (meet cute 9 mo girl) JAN 06 > Trip 2 Moscow (8 doctor meds only) APR 06 > HOME with 17 mo girl |
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#6
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Could this maybe be some kids personalities? I mean, I know I've sat in a restaurant or church before and communicated with a young child before -- goofy eyes, funny faces, etc. I don't think it necessarily means attachment -- but I'm new at all of this too. It just seems to me that some kids/people can be outgoing, whereas others are more reserved. JMHO ...
Last edited by tchr_678 : 02-23-2006 at 03:14 PM. |
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#7
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The description of Tigger's little girl made me think of my first real interaction with a PI child while we were in Moscow for Arianna...the little girl was with her Mom and Dad...who she had been with for a couple of weeks waiting out the Moscow City adoption wait at that time...she just looked at me and smiled and put her arms up for me to hold her...the hurt in the mom's eyes I'll never forget...but she gently took her into her arms and told her no. What if we said this was a differnt health condition, like diabetes? Would the resistance to accept it be the same or would we say...oh, she has diabetes, let's treat it? Attachment is a 'health condition'...is NO different than any other diagnoses. I personally would err on the side of caution...and assume it is attachment related...to use the word 'manipulation' in the thread title and several times through the post suggests it is more...plus the social worker agrees it is PI related... One more thing...here are some great ideas on how to promote attachment...nothing hard or scary about these 'normal' activities...this is also from attach-china... These are suggestions from therapists and parents
"Look in my eyes. Don't look away" - Mr. Soil from Bug's Life
My daughter is 4, and for a long time didn't quite "get" who she could be affectionate with, and who deserved a handshake or less. We took a long sheet of paper (therapist suggestion) and drew a big heart on one end and drew pictures of our immediate family within it. This was "our family circle of love", and we discussed how we can always act lovingly toward anyone in our immediate family circle (*HINT* draw your daughter's birthmother in there too! I didn't think of it and it came back at me later!). Then, in smaller descending hearts we drew extended family, then friends, then doctors, mail carriers, casual babysitters etc. We talked about appropriate behavior for her toward each group, practiced scenarios, and I also gave her permission to NOT hug or kiss anyone outside her immediate family. What I had been thinking was totally an attachment issue really turned out to be, for us, a missed-rung on the post-institutional developmental ladder...the mural idea gave us lots to discuss, and very much helped her behaviors. Sensory Activities Mouth - to improve speech
One mom uses Creamy Style Vaseline, and makes lotion time an attachment activity time with these games:
Last edited by FH-angelkisses0102 : 02-23-2006 at 03:34 PM. |
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#8
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Indiscriminate affection
Hi, angelkisses!
I was going to PM this to you, but thought maybe others were experiencing this as well. I read your posts quite frequently, and you have even given me some advice on past issues that I've appreciated. I've read your posts and all of the symptoms of attachment disorders, over and over. Tommy only shows one-indiscriminate affection. If I am with him, he will go to his PT and OT for hugs and to be held. Fine, he knows them pretty well. The other day though, we had an ST come to the house and meet him for the first time. He went right to her for hugs and to be held. He won't do this in public, and won't go to anyone if he thinks I may wander away. Even at friends' houses, he stays with me and really won't go to others. This just worried me. How worried should I be? He is affectionate with us, makes eye contact, interacts with us and with his brother in just the way I would expect him to. I talked to dh about this, who said that I worried about the same thing with Dennis and that I just like to worry-I'll get to that in a separate thread shortly. I guess my question is-at what point do we worry? Any input from anyone would be great!
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Katrina, PROUD MOMMY OF 3!!!!!!
Mom to two boys, 8 and 5, adopted from Moscow, and
Mom to a 6 year old girl, adopted from Seoul.
Special needs mommy with experience with FAS, dyslexia, ADD, FAE, CP/spastic quadriplegia, global developmental delay, and so in love with my kids it hurts!
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#9
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Our son in the beginning seemed to have no fear of strangers. If he were at a park he'd reach out to strangers to have them put him on a slide, etc. It sort of scared me in the beginning how he'd smile and appear to flirt with strangers. He has outgrown the stage and in new situations is now bashful.
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#10
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Absolutely not. The behavior you are desribing screams of attachment issues to me. Your child needs to learn that you are the source of cuddling, loving, kisses, hugs. You need to teach that. Institutionalized children never learned that one person is a caregiver. They manipulate and control through charm to get what they want from others. You need to establish yourself as the parent. Angelkisses posted a list of activities that you can do. Read them over and DO THEM. Its imperative that your child learn that you are the parent, not others. By letting her interact this way with others, you are actually harming her. It is very unhealthy. My daughter has reactive attachment disorder and it is hell to live with. Don't take a chance. By doing strict attachment parenting for a while, you will avoid this. True, it may be her personality, but do you want to risk it? My daughter will never attach to anyone. She doesn't have the ability. Please don't give your daughter this possibility. It gets harder as they get older. |
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#11
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Quote:
This is something I have wanted to mention for a while. Often people (and I have been guilty of this before myself) will say: well, some kids who were not adopted do the same thing so I should not be concerned about attachment issues. And yes it is true and yes there is a range of behaviors but how do you know that the child who was not adopted had good parents who properly fosted attachment? The act of being born into the family with which you live is in itself not enough to foster attachment. I can attest to that personally. My father was verbally abusive and my mother was cold and distant (at least partially as a result of the abuse she herself suffered). Knowing what I know now I can see that I have struggled thoughout my life with attachment related issues. Also, if you have ever watched Nanny 911 or Supernanny and analyze it you will see that in almost every case the root of the problems is parents who are not working hard enough to foster attachment with their children. So yes, those who have adopted children who are not newborns have a period of institutionalization that they need to make up for but we should not think of attachment parenting as something we just do for our children. Attachment parenting is something all parents must do for all children. Those who have their children from birth just have to opportunity to get a bit of a head start but if they do not do it their children are not somehow immune from attachment problems. Looking at it this was removes the stigma I sometimes sense people have over the concept of attachement parenting for post institutionalized children.
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2/17/04 Signed up with Agency. Chose Rostov-on-Don region (this agency requires you to select a region up front) 4/22/04 All required documents sent to agency 9/20/04 Got appointment date to travel to Rostov-On-Don (blind referral as expected) 10/5/04 Met our daugher for the first time 12/7/04 Court date 12/18/04 Home with Rebecca (born 4/15/03) 4/24/06 Signed contract with agency to do it again |
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#12
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THis question is for Karen.
I am now a little concerned as my daughter is showing some of those listed on the list. She has fear of some strangers but not all. She is discriminate on some strangers, but will go to some without any problems. We do not use childcare at this time. When her dad leaves she gets a little upset, but calms quickly. There have been few times when she cries over me leaving. I rarely leave though. We go to playdates and she interacts well with other children. She can leave the playdates without crying. She is flirty with some strangers but not all. My parents are not in the best shape, so we have let her bond with them too. She loves them and gets very upset when they leave. Also, she wants nothing to do with me when they are around. We had to have a baby sitter once. SHe regressed and took about a week to catch up. She does show lots of signs of positive attatchment. She imitates me non-stop. gives hugs without being asked, and lets us love on her. goes to sleep without any crying, naps well. she says night night and goes to sleep. she cuddles her language is beyond a 21month old and has even started sentences. she tell me she loves me plays well with her babies, feeding, cuddling and rocking them. she is currently potty training and doing well with that. We implement many of the attatchment strategies. My mom has raised six children of her own. 1 with a disability that causes attatchment problems. So she does know some things. She does not seem to think Rheagan is displaying any of the signs my sister showed. I am continuously watching and observing and trying nip anything I see as an attatchment disorder. My question is should I be more concerned. I am currently looking for specialist in the Austin area to have her evaluated. Oh she has been home since April of last year. would you mind pm'ing the links you have? thanks in advance,
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Aimee proud Mommy to Rheagan Elena 4/1/2005 ![]() Волгоград Гордая мама Рхиган Елена Blessed With Another Little Miracle Jaxon Matthew 11/11/2007 |
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