[Littleruler3]

true there are varying degrees of most everything, including RAD! At the heart of the matter for me is this little boy who for many reasons is not getting the love, nurturing enviroment he deserves regardless of an issue of RAD or anything else. As adults it is our obligation and responsibility to do this.A question to ponder: Of course if this child were not adopted, would these parents be on a tv show wanting to return their adoptive child because they are finding it tough to parent him? Do those who have bio children attemp to return a child to the state when parenting becomes difficult or unbearable?



Mary

[BrandyHagz]

Anna,

I merged this post: Anyone watching Dr. Phil about adoptive parents ...

Which was on its own thread, with this thread...there is no need for TWO threads regarding the SAME topic on ONE forum...if that makes sense.

[HappyMomAnna]

.....um actually there are many children in Foster Care because there was no place to return them to... It might not be very common but it is heard of for parents to give the children to DHS due to many issues of being unable to parent them. It happens more often when new borns are born with serious issues and then rejected by the mother....

I am not here to argue with you or anyone. Of course it is our obligation to protect children from abusive situations the sad part is that parents do not loose their children over words and feelings If they did maybe some of our children would not be nearly as damaged as they are when we do get them.

There are thousands of children who are abused sexually, and physically and they do in fact need to be rescued. But I have yet to hear of a child being taken from parents who feel negatively or say horrible words to their children.

We can all agree that speaking this way to or about a child is horrible but abuse is relative to what our society has decided. I have overheard people talk to their children in the shopping center with equal the hostilty and rage this mother had... No it is not okay to speak hatefully toward our children and no one hear has or will ever say that the snip-its we saw on the show yeaterday were acceptable. I have heard parents make threats toward children that are just as damaging. There is not justification for speaking hatefully to anyone but to call it abuse and claim a child should be removed from an adoptive family or from any other family requires what can be defined a whole lot more clearly.....

Mary--are you suggesting that the child needs to be taken away from this family?

[Jensboys]

A biological child in this same home would NOT be sufferring from RAD because he wouldnt have had frequent disrupted attachments and been forced to learn at the young age of 18 months that people (adults) cant be trusted and therefore cannot be let into his heart.

And Mary - I would suggest contact a Residential Treatment Center and find out exactly how many parents of BIO kids DO reach out for help ... or DO have their bio child removed.

[Dianna]

Hi, I believe all the kids in foster care are the bio kids of someone and most of them were removed involuntarily and not for harsh words. I also know of some people who do put their kids in foster care but they are in the minority. The kids who end up with involuntary removals do not have parents who are able to recognize when they are over the edge. I guess it is all in your perspective. Just had to jump in.

[Littleruler3]

Never said that! yes, you make a vaild point, however most of the incidents you speak of are not broadcast on national television either.As for children being turned over to the state, its not an easy process and most parents must exhaust every viable alternative before relinqishment occurs!Residential treatmment ctrs have nothing to do with reliqishments, that is an issue of the state DHR and court systems!

[ddahl]

JMO- What happens when we fail to protect the little ones. It is supposed to take a whole village to raise a child. Where is this families village. Frankly, while I can extend some amount of compassion to the parents of a child that may or may not have been the catalyst to pushing the mom over the brink, I cannot help asking myself how close to the brink was she before the push. The mom is suffering, the family is suffering and the child is suffering, but it is NEVER OK to make excuses for abuse. I just wonder who has seen the behavior in the family and why noone seems to have tried to help. It is so sad on so many levels....and I will never know the answers...

[Littleruler3]

It seems like there is an undertone here that says, its okay to excuse their "abusive" behaviour., because the child is'Unloveable, difficult or whatever. Frankly, I just don't buy it. This is not to say that children with mental disorders(Rad) and other difficult disorders are not hard to parent, because they are.After seeing this episode, it was obvious these parents were ill-eqipped to handle this child, but without knowing all the details and all the background on the child or the parents it is difficult to make a competent judgement, but will say I found the parents to be mean-spirited, abusive and just plain cold-hearted.I also thought the entire show did a terrible injustice to the subject of international adoption!


Mary

[1moretime]

I didn't see the show but this is kind of hitting home tonight. For me this has been a horrible week. I feel bad for that little boy. He shouldn't be called "it" and should not be made to do physically harmful things.

However, I have just have to say my son's behavior over the past few months has been getting more and more out of control. This past weeks got to the point where not only was he yelling excessively hurtful things but began throwing objects at me. I have set the boundries about what is expected behavior and what is not and he just does not care. He is spiraling out of control. Not only at home but at day care and at school. Honestly, this week I thought if he left the house I don't think I would care. I probably will in about 3 days after some much needed rest and regrouping but right now at this very moment I just don't know.

If that mother is feeling like what I do right now, I do feel very sorry for her. I feel like the worst mother in the world. I have very successfully raised on child on my own. I deal with difficult children all day every day. I read all the material I truely thought I could handle this but as I am crying typing this I just don't know. Right now I feel like such a failure. I am sure that that mother feels the same way.

Maybe that Mom is really hurting. I know it is very painful to be the one to provide and love and put it on the line to give your child everything and only get hurt in the process. Then on top of that the child threats others like they are the best thing since sliced bread and that you are nothing but a servant to the child's desires or just not worth the child's time of day.

Maybe I shouldn't be typing this at all. This topic just seemed to hit very hard on some things that I am dealing with during what I hope is a peak of a very long numerous months. I am reading what you have written about RAD and it is truly making me think.

I just want those who have not been here and are not completely worn to a frazzle and exhausted to stop and think before being totally against this mom. I am not at her point, yet. I hope I never am. I agree she needs therapy and right now I am seeking some for us.

Anyway I hope that everyone gets the help they need so that both the child and family can become whole and healthy.

Nancy

[angiesavage1]

Nancy,
I can't even begin to imagine what you (and others) are going thru. Hang in there. I think you are making the right decision to seek therapy before you get to the point where the Mother on Dr Phil is at. I'll be praying for you & your family.

[HappyMomAnna]

I think the show pointed out that with some methods for adoption the training is not always as well done and the follow up support is often not there.

RAD is an emotional disorder not a mental disorder and RAD is treatable and children can heal when and if they recieve the proper treatment unlike mental disorders such as Bipolar which are lifetime issues and require medication. Many children with RAD have OTHER special needs and mental issue in most cases these issues are difficult to treat or dx until the underlaying RAD or Attachment issues have been addressed.

I guess I don't understand why this is so upsetting to anyone--NO one has said they approve or really even excuse the behavior of the mother--only that some of us who have experienced life with an unattached child could RELATE to the feelings we saw expressed and saw this as yet another situation where a mother of an unattached child failed to get the kind of support we HOPE oneday people with an open mind might be willing to extend.

Of course this mother is Wrong for the way she spoke to and about her child but I dare say that anyone who has raised a child through the teens years has most likely used wrong words and had a bad attitude more then once...

I wouldn't have felt the same if this was a just any old talk show--This however is a talk show with a person who claims to be an expert and that to me holds a greater demand for that expert to know what he is talking about. The show could have started the exact way that it did and Dr Phil might have been able to help this family as well as hundreds of others had he actually addressed the fact that clearly the mother and her child are not attached--does it really matter why they are not attached? Dr Phil LOST his chance to do what he claims he wants to do and that is help people in situations grow and change and find peace in their lives... Sometimes the ugly duck can become the swan and Dr Phil used this family in crisis for ratings and a plateform to berate a family--He could have used this situaiton for so many better things and faild to take the opportunity.

[HappyMomAnna]

((((((NANCY))))) It is okay and you are in a place where a great amount of support may be found... HERE! You need to take care of yourself and to be honest I intend to continue seeing my daughters attachment therpaist myself since my daughters RAD is now healing and we are working on the other issue--I cannot give up seeing one of the very FEW people who knows what it feels like to wake up and NOT want to see your own child.... The guilt and pain of knowing that a mother can feel the way a RAD child can make her feel is isolating and painful--do not isolate yourself and please feel free to ask any of us RAD moms for anything you need.

[lucyjoy]

Nancy-Can anyone do respite for you for even a short time? You didn't say how old your child is, so he may be big to rock but you might try rocking him as soon as he gets home at night. Therapists familiar with adoption and attachment can be found at www.radzebra.org www.attachment.org and www.attach.org The radzebra site also has an online support group for moms to support each other while parenting difficult children that may be experiencing attachment difficulties. Parenting With Love and Logic is also a useful parenting resource. Hang in there and find ways to talke care of you.

[Colorbind love]

I'm actually on a yahoo group with this mother. She hasn't stepped forward, but she did post an update via another member. Thankfully, the show hooked this family up with a therapist that practices holding therapy, as well as several other things. The show was apparently taped in October and the mother stated, through someone else, that the first 2 months of therapy were really awful but that things are starting to show improvement now.

I don't think there is any question that this boy has attachment issues. I'm rather shocked that an agency who is so strict about even who they will work with for homestudies and so established and large, especially with the reputation they have, could have dropped the ball so greviously on a child they placed in a family.

But, all that said, none of it excuses the actions of mom. Attachment disorders are real and horrific, but reacting by attacking the child is the wrong solution and should not be tolerated. Thankfully, it sounds like perhaps this family has been helped by the show, and given the resources they so desperately needed before. Truly, if their agency has been there for them to fall back on and find support from in the first place, they might never have become so overwhelmed as to let it get to the point of becoming so horrific in their treatment of him. I don't think they are heartless at all. I don't think what they did to their son is okay. But, with good therapy and a strong committment they CAN work towards healing for their entire family, and it sounds like that is what they are now doing.

[lucyjoy]

Thanks for posting. I'm glad to know someone is helping this family.