[HollyB]

To add, I was so sickened by the mother's comments. She made me cry for all of us sitting here waiting and wanting our children regardless of their issues. I have not yet (and hopefully won't) experience parenting a child with RAD, so I'm trying not to judge this woman's reactions to her child (or should I say, IT, as she refers to her son). I'm usually a very open minded person, but c'mon, this is blatant emotional abuse. If her going on the show was a cry for help, then I hope someone helps her and removes the child from her home, because even with therapy, how long would it take her to see this child as her own and love him unconditionally. And during that time, he continues to suffer everyday. I guess I really don't know the right answer. My only education in this matter is from a few books I read to prepare myself for our first adoption, which turned out she didn't have any issues. For those of you who are more informed on these issues, would removing the child create yet another scar for him? I believe in karma, so I will end this by saying I will try to open my heart to her and her pain and pray for her and her son.

[lucyjoy]

I suprised at all the people who think this child must be removed. Wrong. If someone with knowledge spent one hour with this mom being compassionate and sympathetic, she would regain some hope and revived energy to learn and continue to parent this child. I've spent many hours on the phone talking to moms who are in tears because they can't parent their children and everywhere they've turned for help they've been told it's their fault.

Gee-my 8 year old's agency "helped" my son by removing him for respiste when his mom couldn't care for him(he was 3.5 and only in the us a few months). Five nice families cared for him over five weeks. The case worker put his meds in his bag next to him and he ate them and had to be revived 3 times. Then they gave him back to the mom as she'd rested-still didn't teach her anything. He then went to a few more families-real good idea.

My 14 year old was removed from his abusive mother at 2.5 only to spend the next 7 years in 19 placements on several meds-one of which caused nerve damage.

But hey, this mom said some dumb things(and she only said them once or twice) She was over the line. Not sure what made her have the kid run. Anyone know if running is good for building muscle tone with this disorder? I don't so can't speak to her reasoning.

This familiy needs help and removing this child is not the answer. They need to learn how to respond to the child in a different manner.

[Schnooks]

This is just more proof of the rampant disease of SELFISHNESS in our culture... it's all about the mother and what she didn't get (and the father too)... she wanted the perfect child and because she didn't get IT, she's just going to take it out on him.

SICK. Get OUT of YOURSELF LADY!!

[irinam]

Originally Posted by Littleruler3

regardless of whether the child has "Rad", and that is for a professional to determine, the behaviour described on the website/forum is unacceptable period! Yes, I can sympathize with parents of RAD children, but ultimately that does not give a parent an excuse to heap emotional, psychological abuse because they are stressed, upset and at wit's end!



Mary

I have to say....I agree with Mary. I kow this would be hard, but I saw a few minutes of the episode and turned it off, it was infuriating!!! She seemed cold and completely uninterested in that child. I love Dr. Phil, but I am tired of the negative aspects of adoption on TV, and, even though I will get blasted for saying it, glorifying the birth parents as he did several months ago on one of those where he let the two kids meet their bmom. Over and over he referred to her parents as the adoptive parents, which I know they were, but I would have liked for him to say, regardless of anything else, this woman who raised you is your mom. Am I wrong?

[Vicki H]

I agree. I will always acknowledge that my son has birthparents and I will tell him what I know and would support him if he decided one day to try to find them, but the point is ..it takes more to be a parent than giving birth to the child.
Yes, they did what they felt was best for the child by giving them up for adoption, but the adoptive parents are the CHILDS PARENTS and should be referred to as such.
Just my opinion, I do not mean to offend anyone.

Vicki

[MissyB9479]

If the child has RAD or not is hard to say. From what I could tell he wasn't living in an institution in India but with a Foster Family and he did have some bonding with his father but the mother said that she was jealous of it. Whatever the case she was hurting that child. Telling her she wishes she hadn't adopted him is terrible. Thinking it is one thing but saying it to him is another. And he has a disease that gives him weakness in his arms and legs so for punishment she has him run around even though she knows that he can't do it. Think about that. It is pure torture.

What people should walk away from the show with isn't a negative perception if adoption but trying to have more realistic expectations. This couple may have gone through the process without really understanding the potential issues. They really seemed to expect adopting an older child to be exactly like giving birth. It's not. Their agency really should have done more work to make sure they understood this.

On the other hand I was really impressed with the second story about the potential birthmother who was interviewing parents. She met with a couple that was very open with their feelings and were honest about the fact that this decision would cause pain for the birthmother. This adoptive couple had completely realistic expectations and were not afraid to discuss the grief of adoption with the birthmother. I suspect that they will have a more positive adoption experience because of it.

[Vicki H]

I just feel for that little boy. He should not have to live like that.
I just felt this woman just isn't capable of loving that child, regardless of his health issues.


Vicki

[kimber413]

I wrote to the Dr. Phil show and told him he did a great disservice to this child, the parents, and international adoption in general (ha, wonder if it will get read at all). Anyway, I told him he needs to have a panel discussion with several IA families, about both the positive and negative issues relating to the adoption process, problems with attachment, etc. and I suggested a couple of the local IA groups in the greater Los Angeles area (where I live). I also suggested he read Toddler Adoption: The Weaver's Craft to get an idea of some of the issues with these children.

I'll keep you posted when, and IF, I ever get a response.

[AMom2Two]

I saw the show and I was disgusted with it!!!

The amom that wanted to send her child back made me sick. I don't care if he has RAD, ADD, compulsive-obsessive disorder or anything else that limits him, he is the child. She is the parent. A parent NEVER has the right to call their child IT, to say I wish we never adopted you, to make him run when he can't, to tell him to stop crying when he is in pain and then to GET MAD AT THE HUSBAND FOR SHOWING AFFECTION TO THE CHILD. There is no excuse for her behavior and I will not hide behind labels and lay any blame on the child. The blame lies on the aparents, soley and completely. The blame lies on the mother for the abuse she is giving that child. That is wrong!

I know of another member here Dadto2 that had some issue with his children and had a difficult time but I never heard him say, I DON'T LOVE YOU. He bent over backwards to help his children. Their pain caused him pain. He is the type of parent children with special needs need. They don't need a mother who is cruel and abusive. I will not defend this amother. I think she is the lowest of low. She is the adult and he is the child. Even if you don't feel love, YOU FAKE it! That little boy does not feel safe there as Dr. Phil pointed out and the only reason why is because of the cruel actions of the mother. I believe in my heart that the child should be removed and given to another family that can appreciate his good side and work with his disabilities.

Do you know what is like to be a small child who has lost everything, wake up one day with new parents and have that parent in your face saying they wished they never adopted you. That is horrid behavior! Adoptive parents have to be better then regular parents. If they had any doubts about their ability then they should have not taken the child. Maybe they got in over their head, then they could have reached out for help prior to emotionally and physically (making him run when he can't) abusing a child. This is what I see other parents here doing, reaching out, not blaming the child because the child doesn't come to them, or blaming the child because he has a disablity. They reach out to learn so they can do a better job.

I was disgusted by most of the show. The couple that had a failed placement now has two pbm that are going to give them their babies? Where does that happen in real life? How did he get two pbm to agree to place their babies within one month of each other?

The whole show was unreal! The only part that brought tears to my eye's was the reunion of the adoptee with her bmother and half sister. When her bmom said that your mother wanted you so bad, that you came from God's hands to my hands to her's. Now that was a classy lady! JMHO

[Littleruler3]

Originally Posted by irinam

I have to say....I agree with Mary. I kow this would be hard, but I saw a few minutes of the episode and turned it off, it was infuriating!!! She seemed cold and completely uninterested in that child. I love Dr. Phil, but I am tired of the negative aspects of adoption on TV, and, even though I will get blasted for saying it, glorifying the birth parents as he did several months ago on one of those where he let the two kids meet their bmom. Over and over he referred to her parents as the adoptive parents, which I know they were, but I would have liked for him to say, regardless of anything else, this woman who raised you is your mom. Am I wrong?

NO you are not wrong, I'm with you! I feel exactly the same way, its as if we are truly second best and not real parents, I use to be a big fan of hi, but no more!


Mary

[AMom2Two]

Ok, maybe I am too harsh on the amom. I have not walked in her shoe's. I do not have special needs children. I have not cared for them. I do think Dr. Phil should have had an expert on the show about the possible "special needs" of the child. The expert could have shed light on us aparents that are not framiliar with special needs so that maybe we could see something good in the amom. I just didn't see anything good in her. If I am wrong for saying so, then I will have to be wrong.

I do agree that adopting an infant and having them develop special needs is much different then being handed a toddler with special needs. I get the feeling that the amom was angry because he has special needs and that is not his fault.

I'm trying to understand this amom's side but I just can't. Can anyone explain it to me? Can anyone explain to me why she would get mad at her husband for showing the boy affection? Her answer of saying because she get's angry that she can't while he can was lame, sorry, but that is how I see it. I didn't see any softness in her for him. I am all for supporting aparents. I am all for applauding those who take in special needs children. That is one of the hardest roads to travel. I feel in this situation that she is angry he has special needs and instead of trying to help him, she seems down right mean and cold.

Please do not take my feelings for this mother and apply them to everyone who has taken in special needs children and can not deal with them. Not being able to deal with the child and the issue's is human. Reaching out for support is human. Being unsure and scared is ok but being abusive is not. As adults we need to reach out for help. Maybe that is what she was doing by going on Dr. Phil, I don't know. I can't imagine what she hoped to get out of being there. All I saw was a cold, uncaring, uncompassionate woman who sounded as phoney as a $200 bill.

Again, I am only talking of this situation. Please do not take offense to my feelings.
hugs,

[HappyMomAnna]

I did not feel the things that were said by the adoptive mom were EVER okay to say to a child--or that the parents feelings are even OKAY.... But any of us who have lived day after day with attachment issues in our children do face times of utter dispair.... I am not sure that anyone who has not been in this situation can possibly understand how deep it does hurt the parent to be helpless in our childs life.

Anyone who has not been the parent of a RAD child might be as niave as the general public about what RAD looks like and how people who do not get it see it. Most of Our RAD children come with a laundry list of Dx issues...My daughter is supposibly ADHD--PTSD--Bipolar--Sexually abused--seperation anxiety--ODD--drug affected--learning disbaled--greiving her losses--growing to fast--needs five different medications.....YET NOTHING we do to help her or treat her can be addressed propely until the RAD is treated and she is secure and healed.... and many times our children will over come the other Dx once they have been able to form an attachment with the family..... Our children OFTEN have wonderful bonds with other people--teachers, grandaparents, and anyone else on this earth except for the people they most need to be attached to--that is why it is called REACTIVE!!! It is REACTIVE toward the people who the attachment needs to be made with.

RAD parents usually have to first come to a point where we understand that "LOVE" is JUST never enough to help our child and our families overcome and be ok. For me it was a horrible moment in time when I learned that fact that I could love my child as much as I could but yet I might never recieve it in return....

My ex-husband is clearly a RAD child and after 14 years of marriage I had to face the fact that loving him was NEVER going to be enough to make him happy. I wished he had been given the chance to overcome his RAD before he became a husband and father maybe I would not have had to deal with the call Tori made the other night asking me why her dad just cannot LOVE her.... Maybe I would not have had to tell her that he does love her and it is not her responsibility that he has an illness and is unable to return the love...the way she needs it....

When I was dealing with the fact that I was the mother of a RAD child it was hard to be told that LOVE was not going to be enough for her....It can make a mother turn off for a time... What do we do when we are told we can love a person all we want but that this person might not ever be able to recieve this message and return the feelings to us? How would it feel to be married to a man you knew would NEVER understand what LOVE really means.... As a wife I know my feelings turned to HATE...and as they say there is a fine line between love and hate.... If you have never seen this line then you cannot understand how real this statement actually is...

This is WHY our professionals the therapists--the adoption workers--the doctors and the society needs to LEARN to recognize this. What can we honestly expect from mothers and fathers who have to face this? These are humans with their own issues, backgrounds and feelings.... Society would serve these parents and these children far better if they backed off the judgements and saw that these parents are in great NEED right now.... When we see parents coming to the line between love and hate it is the parents who need the help and the support not judgement and condemnation.

If Dr Phil had been educated enough on RAD and understood this fact this family could have been served far better. The actions that needed to be taken were to support these parents in every possible way to overcome the horrors they feel inside of their hearts. As it stands it seems that this family may disrupt when that never needed to be the outcome...by being punished on a public program in front of the entire country is not support to this family. It is hipe and ratings it is drama and I feel the abuser in this case has to be the program for sensationalizing a family in crisis.

Why on earth would a professional who has made an oath to do no harm edit a program to dispaly the most ugly and horrible issues around such an important matter? If Dr Phil was actually interested in helping people he would not have allowed the program to be edited in such a way as to show the very ugliest parts of RAD--he would have used his plateform to help educate the communities to reach out with support when we see parents suffering from attachment and adoption issues.

The only real abuse on the show yeaterday was that an Adoptive family clearly had enough care to call the show in order to find answers to the hardship they are facing. Instead of having REAL help this family has been shamed publically and nationally and NOT done a service to help other families facing the same crisis.

[AMom2Two]

Ok, this may be a stupid question, but how do you know the child has RAD? Dr. Phil said he was with a foster family that he was bonded with, when this family came and took him in the middle of the night? Isn't RAD the inability to bond with your parents? Why could the child bond with the foster parents but not his adoptive parents? To me, that indiciated something with the aparents.

I can't help but think we are applying a serious medical condition to this child when we do not know that is what he has. Maybe this child doesn't have RAD. Don't you think the amom would have had that diagnosed and brought to the show if it was true?

The amom never claimed the child had RAD, so using it in her defense does not make sense to me. Maybe he doesn't have it? Can we speculate on our feeling for the amom if the child DOES NOT HAVE RAD? Would you feel the same way?

[HappyMomAnna]

Attachment disorders are the result of brokne bonds. It is estimated that it only requires a child to be moved three times before attachment issues develope. Biological family---foster family---adoptive family that is three.

It is also well known in the Foster to Adopt community that the transition is one of the most important issues especially for toddlers. A poor or sudden transition can actually make attachment a problem.... Sadly, the international adoptions seem to have less focus on the needs for longer slower transisions.

Our RAD child is the older child but the State mandated a two week transisiton to help the one year old avoid attachment issues...It was painfully long and seemed crazy but it was important because toddlers do not have language and do not understand what is happening therefore they need repeated demonstartion that the foster family trusts the adoptive family and that the foster mother likes--supports and is providing a message to the child that this new mom is a safe mom to be with.

Also, it is well known that simply having an attachment with someone does not mean the attachment is healthy. This was in fact one of the hardest issues for me to accept...My daughter was attached to her birthmother and I thought this was good and proved she had the learned skills of attachment--HOWEVER the fact is that her attachment with her birthmother was NOT healthy her birthmother abused her and in the dynamics of my relationship with my little girl now she seems to NEED to be abused in order to feel loved---she pushes and pushes for anger and an EVENT in order to relax and accept love it is horrifying to see a child seeking anger in order to express love but in this case it is almost like a light switch the moment she has achieved bringing us to a breaking point she snaps into a loving princess and wants the 'I am sorries" in order to feel normal and relate to the first bond she had.

Many of us have been in unhealthy relationship and have loved and felt bonded to the other person...It does not make it a good attachment. One of the MAJOR reasons that women remian in abusive relationships is that they feel ATTACHED to the abuser...

I am NOT saying this child has been abused I am saying that there are indicators that his first bonds may or may not have been healthy--his transition was improper and the agency in charge was responsible to insure this kind of transistion did not take place....

Further this child was placed into a home with an expectant mother. How on earth can a child attach when the mother is expecting a baby? In Oregon with the Foster Care system families who have a pre-adoptive placement are NOT permitted to have any new children join the family for at least a year the reason is that it is clear that families need TIME to place the adoptive child as the MOST special. This little boy did not have the chance to be the most special his mother was hormonal and giving birth... In my oppinion it was not acceptable to have the child placed with this family in the first place.

It was also brought out that Dr Phil does not get it when he was talking to the hopeful parents Jack and Jill and the two pregnant mothers who were interested in placing... The one pregnant mother clearly brought up that she felt uncomfortable in placing he baby with this coulple it they also took the other baby due a month before.... Dr Phil used some gobbley goop of the seperate line of love every child gets from the parents in order to encourage the second mother due to feel good about her baby being the one month younger child to the same family.... HOG WASH.... The first baby needs time with the parents and there does not need to be a new baby another month later. The only exception I would see to this thought is twins and that is a completely different situation because twins are biolgically related.

I was disgusted too with the fact that Dr Phil did his best to have two expecting moms decide to place both children with HIS CLIENT...Jack and Jill...They should be thrilled to have one of these babies and not so selfish as to want both... We all know there are MANY adoptive families who would wish for the second baby.

The problem with attachment disorders is that EVERYONE wants to find some other answer and minimize the realities we the parents face. It is sooooooo hard to find good help with professionals who get it and it is so often that our children are Dx with ten-thousand other things before anyone is willing to see the truth.

The sad part is that the younger a child is when they get attachment help the less damage is done.... I belive that ANY child placed after any extended period of birth should be assumed to need attachment help. The things that can be done early with a younger child can make all the difference in the world but this constant need of society to refuse to deal with the fact that our adopted children may come with attachment issues are NOT doing what could be done to avoid hurt and problems later.

[AMom2Two]

((((Anna)))

Thank you so very much for taking the time to explain things to me. I always respect your opinons and your insight. You have a way of educating without putting someone down for their feelings. I appreciate the time and energy you took in helping explain this to me.

I agree with you about the hogwash line Dr. Phil made about Jack and Jill and each child has a seperate pool they pull love from. I felt the dark hair pbm was unsure of placing her child with them and he just seemed to push her. I was really surprised in the end when she told the adoptive couple, you answered my questions and I feel ok with it now. I didn't hear them answer her questions. I heard him. I got the sense that she was being pushed into this and that didn't sit right with me either.

Again, Anna, thank you so much for educating me. I appreciate all the time you took to do so.
Hugs,