[waitingonVandS]

I have a friend that has adopted several children from Russia. They have told me that children, caretakers and even teachers from the orphanage told them that if they get adopted to Americans that their parents will beat them and even kill them. One boy told me that a teacher told him that his parents will put him in a meat grinder and feed him to other people. Have any of you with children already home ever heard this kind of stuff. I would hate to think that my 2 little ones over there right now are having to listen to such rubish...

[JackandJane]

The caretakers we met at the orphange couldnt have been nicer to us. I am sure they knew we were Americans.

[Vicki H]

I adopted an infant so I really have no experience with this, but I can tell you that the caretakers at the orphanage my son was at were wonderful and were so happy that he was getting a loving home.

In Russia, we were even thanked personally by Russians for adopting and giving a child a good home.

I cannot say the stories you have heard are true or untrue, but from my experience , they are just happy to see the children get homes, no matter where they go.


Vicki

[JackandJane]

Just like VickH we got congrats form other Russians. While in Moscow we were at the open air market and a lady walked up and hugged my wife, she didnt speal English but she knew that the baby with us was adopted. She was very happy for us. When we were there in 1999 I wore my Fighting Illini coat and stuck out like a sore thumb.

[Abdulina]

Many orphanages do tell such stories. Not all, but many do. Just like alot of the children are told some rough tales to keep them in line. At night, they can't get out of bed, so told monsters will get them. My son is terrified to get out of bed at night. Many, many are deathly afraid of dogs in order to keep away from strays. Mess when they come home--the dog factor we call it. All four of ours had this fear. As glorious as some may find the orphanages that their children came from, just remember, there are those that are not so glorious. My kids are older so are able to communicate what happened to them more so than toddlers or infants. We know when we got our 4yo that he was picked up by the ears when he was bad. Heard this is common. (happened to 2 of ours) I have one horror story I could tell on here that we experienced first hand. I will not share it for it is too brutal to describe. Just know your kids are going to a safer environment. And yes, I know there are wonderful caretakers. But, you are also only there for a short time w/ them in a "setup" type of environment. You really think they're going to do something outrageous while you're there? I know a little more of what happens inside orphanages for we still keep in touch after 5 1/2 years w/ our childrens' orphanage teacher. She is honest and we appreciate that. I know firsthand of abuse that has happened in orphanages. The evidence is in my son and you can't change that. Only change what happens now and in the future. Trust me, our family has never forgotten those left behind. Wish we could take them all home. I'm not saying we don't yell (our kids will vouch fo rthat one!) but we don't do extreme things that they all have experienced in the orphanage. Our last trip, we were kept out of almost all the rooms and some were locked, which we found suspicious. But I will never forget the screams we heard. Indescribeable. But yet, we can still hear it in our heads. That's the hard part. My daughter is getting more vocal-- she's 9. I'm hearing more and more what has happened to her and just listen without trying to cry. At the dentist, they are literally strapped down in head restraints and arm and leg restraints while work is done. They are screaming the whole time. Our Russian lady still over there describes the children going to the dentist like going to a torture chamber. They don't view orphans as regular citizens and are treated differently. Even in the hospital. I could go on but I won't. Like I said, there are wonderful, kind-hearted caretakers that truely care and love the children. I'm not disputing that. But what you must also know, is it is not all love everywhere. Some children do needlessly suffer. I can only speak from what I've experienced and saw firsthand. I'm not speaking for others, just myself and our children. Why do you think there is sooo much improvement after the first few months home? Because they have never had that kind of love before. All children deserve to be treated with kindness and love no matter where they live. Please don't forget about the others still in orphanages. make their day. We send care packages every year for the kids still there. We're told from our friend that it makes their whole year. Gives them the break from reality of life. Theirs is a hard life. We are only beginning to understand the magnitude of it all. All orphanages are different but those of us who have adopted older children from one of the "rougher" places can tell you it is a miracle they survived. Enough said. Love your kids and let them know they are loved. I don't want to scare anyone. This is not true of all oprhanages and I do have respect for those wonderful caretakers who truely love the kids. We have met quite a few of them. Wish we could clone some of those caretakers and put them in every orphanage. Sorry so long-winded. It's a touchy spot for me b/c it hurts knowing that they went through this. I can only listen, I guess. But still hurts listening to your daughter describe what happened to her. I've spoken with MAnY adoptive families of older children. It's about half and half as far as experiences go. Half come from "good" orphanages and half from "bad" ones. I'd love to hear from others via pm what your children have told you. Like I said, I don't post all the things b/c I do think some things should be kept private. Sorry in advance if I have upset anyone. Those weren't my intentions if I did. Best wishes to everyone.

Stephanie.

[waitingonVandS]

Well, I can tell you that the orphanage we were at several of the older caretakers really were not polite and stared bitterly at us. My facilitator told us that often these type of women and many others do not support foreign adoption. They have had hard lives and deep down don't feel that these children should get a break while they never did. In addition, their is just some anti-American sentiment among these older Soviet era folks. That was the feel that I got. The orphanage director was the only one that seemed positive. He was quite professional and actually put his arms around the children to hug them and they did not seem frightened of him.

And I do believe the stories that the children told me about what they were told in the orphanage. What's funny is that there are 17 (yes-seventeen) Russian children in my friends home and all of them have different stories about their experiences. Some absolutely had no problems with their treatment while others had some pretty sad stuff to share.

[Vicki H]

This is truely unfortunate. Most adults do not want to see children suffer like they may have. I find it sad that they cannot be happy that the children will have an easier life.
Children are innocent human beings and should not be treated differently because they are in an orphanage.
I really wish I could adopt several more.
I am just happy to have my son safe and sound with us.


Vicki

[waitingonVandS]

Thanks, Abdulina. Very heartfelt.

These stories were shared with me by my friends children, so I don't know if my two little ones are being fed the same stuff. As I said, there were quite a few nasty type older women there, but then again, many Russians appear that way but really are nice. That's just their culture. Don't smile...

My impression of the orphanage was not too bad. It was very rural and subsequently very poor. It appeared clean and well run. There was a room in the orphanage that was converted to a green room that had cactus, plants and even a small pond with a waterfall. I was told that this is where the children came to relax. So maybe these caretakers are good and it is just a matter of perspective. I won't know until I get my little ones here. Praying for end of Jan/early Feb.

[HollyB]

It's interesting what you said about ear pulling. My daughter has one ear which is large and sticks up and out. I thought maybe she always slept on it that way, but it sounds like there may be another explanation. I am also praying to get a February court date. I can't hardly stand the thought of Christmas in a few days. All I want for Christmas is my children in my arms.

[momm2be]

The flip side of this, is many children are told if they behave they can be adopted and get anything they want from the American parents. So here comes the gimme, gimme, gimme, attitude.

[mschweber]

We had nothing but good experiences with the staff at our baby home.

We just got back from Rostov on Don with our daughter Rebecca, age 20 months.

We were very impressed with the staff at Baby Home #4 in Rostov on Don. Yes, the building is old and short on resources but the staff really seemed to be concerned for the children's well being and were happy to see children being adopted (in our time there we saw Russian parents, Italian parents and French parents in addition to Americans). They proudly referred to us as momma and pappa.

They were happy that a couple of months ago an American family that had adopted a number of years ago had come back to visit with their child and they were clearly happy at how well he was doing.

Also, they seem to try to engage the children. There is a woman who comes in a couple of times a week to run a toddler age music class and as a result Rebecca loves music.

We left with great affection for the staff and plan to send them pictures of Rebecca and hopefully, when Rebecca is old enough to appreciate the trip, go back and visit.

The only negative we heard was from another American couple who was on their 2nd trip when we were on the first. They said that on their first trip a mother who had to put her child in the baby home due to a fire but who would come to visit the child was very nasty to them but I can understand how she could have felt threatened given her situation.

In Moscow we were in a hotel commonly used by families completing the adoption process but the people there were all very friendly and encouraging,

[waxhawfamily]

We just got back from our first trip. The orphanage we went to was clean and warm. We were only allowed to visit with our son 2 hours. During that time, he seemed happy and playful. He is 20 months, so he is just starting to babble.

There were three things that I noticed though, if he generated any trash on the floor (such as the remenants of a popped balloon), he dashed with purpose to pick up the trash. I understand this is common, but you wonder about a child so young - just what tactics are used to instill the urgency for cleaning.
The second thing I noticed was when a certain care taker would walk by the open doorway, his entire face would drop, he would stop what he was doing, and he would look beaten down. This lasted until she was out of sight. It happened twice as the same woman passed by.
One other thing was a little tantrum. He is in the prime age for it, but the tantrum was silent. I've never seen quite a sublime tantrum before.
He's still there until Feb. or March so I try not to think about it too much. I just pray for him every day.

[mschweber]

There were three things that I noticed though, if he generated any trash on the floor (such as the remenants of a popped balloon), he dashed with purpose to pick up the trash. I understand this is common, but you wonder about a child so young - just what tactics are used to instill the urgency for cleaning.
The second thing I noticed was when a certain care taker would walk by the open doorway, his entire face would drop, he would stop what he was doing, and he would look beaten down. This lasted until she was out of sight. It happened twice as the same woman passed by.

It is interesting that Rebecca, who is the same age, also picks up all trash around her and still does it now that she is home with us. She hates to see any mess around her. Maybe it is the age or maybe it is training.

We had the opposite situation with caregivers. Until we took Rebecca out of the baby home she would be fine with us - playing happily - until a caregiver came in to the room at which point she would run to the caregiver with her arms open, crying. Even when we took her out of the baby home she would try to go to any older woman who spoke Russian to her. We had Rebecca with us 3 days in Rostov and then went to Moscow. It was only on the second day in Moscow that she stopped this behavior. We assume it was because she was attached to her caregiver and felt more comfortable with people speaking Russian, which she seemed to understand some of, rather than us taking a language she did not understand. I could see how suddenly having people talk English to you could be confusing and frustrating. Sort of like being in a Kafka novel.

[Vicki H]

It's tough to say about their urgency to clean up after themselves.
The tactics used could be harsh , but maybe not. My son was an infant when we brought him home, so he had no understanding of cleaning.
I asked him a few times to help me pick up paper that my dog has chewed when we were not home and now he just starts picking up trash on his own and throwing it in the trash can.
I hope that they just told them once or twice and didn't use any scare tactics to get them to clean.
I know it's hard not to worry, even though Alex was an infant I worried how he was treated, I told myself daily to try not to think about it or I would go nuts.

Vicki

[oslipitin]

....general populace gets sub-standard medical and dental attention....like everyone else....bribes are expected preferably in American dollars or some luxurious commodity...or food-stuff.... Those in the medical profession don't get high wages, neccessarily. But....the greatest payoff probably is: that MD's/teachers/directors/dentists/ ie....are regarded God-like/powerful. Though please do not mis-understand there are plenty of doctors that do practice ethically...
Many dentists generally do not administer any numbing agents....either they don't have them or do not use them for the purposes intended....
Pulling ears- that's been done in most parts of the world... and still is continued....indeed there are far worse punishment(s) inflicted on children...from adults that have been punished in simular ways.
....European children are taught to be fairly independent from a very early age. They are expected to tolerate things that we would not subject our children to tolerate.
"Picking up trash"...that may be a "cultural" thing: being messy reflects negatively on one's personality...being clean, being disciplined reflects positively on one's personality....and how one is treated.