[Robinsmom]

First let me say, Happy Thanksgiving, Jackie, late I know, but I was off camping again, and just got home. Sorry it took me so long to reply.
Rose,
I have read all the posts here, and am amazed at the strength you have shown over your lifetime. What a terrible thing to have happened when you were so young. My heart goes out to you. Keeping your child, after all that, and seeing she had a good home, is a wonderful gift. You could have gone the other way, as many in your position would have. I admire you for thinking of the child first. I also think you have more than owned that situation because you are able to talk of it now, a step I am sure was hard to take.
Now, that all being said, my birthdaughter was 28 when we first found each other, and over the course of about 3 years, she has gone through all the same patterns as yours. She is so nice, then so nasty, I hear from her, and then not again for months. She has twisted my words to fit her moods, and I pay for it. She also was raised in a good home, i was not raped or on drugs, I was just 14 when I got pregnant with her, and 15 when she was born. I had no rights, so I was talked into adoption. A terrible loss that I kept secret most of my life. Sorry, Not my story, it's yours, so let me be the one to say, you did everything right. We can not predict what these children will do or say, they are strangers to us, strangers that hold the keys to our past. It has taken me forever, and with the help of many good women, I have found a place I can live with out the guilt and pain I carried before. My wish for you, is that you too can find that place. It is so much more easy to see things the way they really are now. None of it was our fault, we did what we felt we had to do. We can not change that now. Don't let what she says hurt you so much, I do believe that is why my bdaughter did what she did, it was her way of punishing me for giving her up. It didn't matter why, she really didn't care, she could hurt me, and for some reason that made her feel better. When I stopped reacting, she stopped writing. I had to choose, what was more important, talking to her, and being hurt, or not having her talk to me, and being sad. I took the sad, it did a lot less damage. I could heal that, the hurt, I could not. I can not tell you which would be best for you, I wish I could, but the fact that you started talking about it is a good sign. You are ready to beginning the long process of healing and for that I am happy for you. Let me tell you as one who knows what you are going through, you are on the right road, just keeping talking. Just knowing there is somebody out there listening can make all the difference.
Colleen

[Jackiejdajda]

First let me say, Happy Thanksgiving, Jackie, late I know, but I was off camping again, and just got home. Sorry it took me so long to reply.

Hello Colleen.. Its finally getting colder here.. The yard was full of blackbirds this morning.. they are getting ready to head south..
I hope you had a good camping trip.. We are keeping our camper.. but I just like to stay here..

When I stopped reacting, she stopped writing. I had to choose, what was more important, talking to her, and being hurt, or not having her talk to me, and being sad. I took the sad, it did a lot less damage. I could heal that, the hurt, I could not.

One of my favourite self help people once said.. or wrote.. “Remove the victim.”

We get to take care of ourselves.. I wanted to alert you to this thread.. I wish we could give Rose a group hug..

Jackie

[Dickons]

Being adopted into a great home and having a happy childhood has nothing to do with her feelings towards you. She probably is happy with her Mom and Dad they raised her, she has spent her life with them.

She can still be hurt by the fact she is adopted and the child you say you have a great relationship with who is also adopted is telling you what you want to hear - we are programmed by society to do that. We would not talk to another family member about something that would hurt someone we love (her Mom and Dad).

You truly need to read The Primal Wound - really - doesn't matter how many other books you have read. It was an incredible journey reading the book - emotions, actions, tears I went through growing up identified in this book as a common thread in adopted children.

You have to remember that you are her Mother - not her Mom - to me there is a world of difference and because of that there is room in her heart for both a Mother and a Mom - it is not a competition.

At 25 no one is ready to deal with all the emotions flooding her, at 46 I am having a hard time.

If you get The Primal Wound offer your daughter a copy as well - I wish it had been around for me way back then.

Remember that she never had a choice or voice in being adopted, the fact that most mothers did not either is totally irrelevant to her, her life has been directed by other people at the most fundamental time in her life.

Choose to be the hero / adult in the relationship or walk away again.

Dickons

[Robinsmom]

What Jackie quoted is true, Remove the victim. If we step back, and stop allowing things to make us victims, we grow stronger. It is not always easy to do. The draw of these children is so great. They have the ability to suck us back in, with an e-mail or a phone call, and more often than not, we rush back, because the mother in us can not take the chance that this may be the time. The time they are ready. Most of us have waited so long to be reunited, and I know from my own personal experience, that I would have jumped through hoops, had my bdaughter asked me to. I wanted so very mush for her to like me, I don't know now why that was so important, but at the time it was. Maybe it was my own fear, my own guilt, that made me feel that way. It took me a long time to realize that she was really a stranger, and sharing blood, does not mean we were meant to like each other. Once I took that pressure off, it was easier to deal with her mood swings. Not to say, that I do not still love the baby she was, because I always will, but as I have not really known her most of her life, I do not feel so compelled to have her accept me any more. I am happy with the periodic e-mail, or pictures, knowing she is happy and safe. We do not dislike each other, we are just better to each other this way. Once you allow your heart to heal, it will become easier for you to see her for the person she is, an emotional woman, as we all are, who is trying to figure her way through this too. Don't lose faith, and if you fall, get back up. We all fall sometimes.
Colleen

[MiniatureRoses]

I suppose I'm edgy this morning.
Not bashing anyone truly. I'm just going to relay my feelings.

I still feel like the victim( in this relationship too) and dont know how to move past that. It will always be with me, I just try not to dwell on "that" past. As far as bdaughter, I feel like I have to tell her to stop her abuse in order for me to no longer be the victim, ??? Huh? me too. That dont make much sense. Something has to end. The abuse or the relationship... okay ladies, remembering I'm venting.

Now the selfish part. I sometimes and do mostly feel I dont owe her anything. I gave her life and hopefully at that gave her a good or better life. She could have been raised with everything she needed with me. I wasnt too young to raise her, but afraid I would have hated her or resented her because of her conception. Terrible huh?
I am so angry because I opened my life back up to her. Even if I did promise at the adoption she could find me, I only imagined it would have been a positive thing for her. I didnt want a baby to feel abandoned a second time. I was thinking of the future.
In my gut, its like Im opening myself up to her and only getting crapped on. Why am I putting up with this, its like not reporting the rape. I'm letting someone push me around again! My shame is letting someone take advantage of me again. VENTING


Colleen, thank you for your thoughts. I have to find a way to deal with this.

One way I want to give up. Move on with my life, I have so many important things going on in my life that at times I think I dont need this. But the mother instinct in me says hang in there, for her. I'm tender hearted when it comes to hurting anyone. I really have to be pushed. I'm back and forth on the emotions. I'm still on the roller coaster ride. I think Ive shoved the emotions to the side and havent been dealing with them as they come. AGH!

I dont know how to feel some days. I just want to block it all out.

I will check the library and see if they carrry the Primal Wound.

[keds]

Rose, you're not alone in your feelings. Some days I just want to scream! Everyone here is so complacent and unemotional - quite the opposite of your situation but frustrating nonetheless. I think I would feel better (?) if my bson showed a little anger just so I would know that there was some feeling there - stupid I know. He's just so "together". Maybe it's a "guy" thing and most of the time I am so thankful I don't have to deal with the drama but a little emotion, I don't know, make me feel wanted??? When my daughters were growing up and I would "lose" it they would laugh and give ME a time out. We usually had a good laugh together and I told them - just because I'm an adult doesn't mean I can keep it together ALL the time! Hang in there and please remember, you're allowed to (should!) vent sometimes and walk away, if that's what you need and is best for you.

[Jackiejdajda]

Colleen wrote

Once you allow your heart to heal, it will become easier for you to see her for the person she is, an emotional woman, as we all are, who is trying to figure her way through this too.

If we are solid in self.. we can cope with the reunion.. I think.
Have become comfortable with what happened.. Or.. heck.. connected with what happened..
Its not an open wound.. its not a deep and horrible resentment.. or its not a thing we obsess on.. Our obsession with ourselves.

And visa versa..

I just went for a ride in the car with hubby.. We were listening to Loren McKenna.. and I remembered my trip to Boston.. (Toronto to Boston on the all nite Greyhound bus.).. I had just bought that CD and listened to it in the middle of the nite on that ride..
All those terrible feelings I had blocked.. and I had taken the Greyhound bus from Boston to Miami when I was pregnant..
I think that latter trip to Boston was me going through all that with my adult grown up mind.
I journaled when I got to the Boston Terminal.. Wrote about how I had arrived there on my own in 1964. Stayed at the YWCA.

I was able to stand back and see the experience.. and make peace with it..
Write words in my journal that told me what I know now..

Now I do not have to give my journals to my bson as I had planned to do.. I am sure he does not want them..
Toooo emotional..
Now I can see who he is and act accordingly..

Rose wrote.

I still feel like the victim( in this relationship too) and dont know how to move past that. It will always be with me, I just try not to dwell on "that" past.

But its coming around again.. and can not be stopped.. I found this with my reunion.. things I thought were well behind me came back.. Things I did not want to know about or think about..
I ran from Boston.. I messed up bad in Boston and got out of there..
I thought it was gone but it is not..
I live with the guilt of how I acted back then.. and how I do not know who the father of my bson is..
I have to had to tell him this..
And there is a part of me that is guilty..

But these are my demons.. and yours are different..

Life sucks.. sometimes..

Keds I think you and I have the same issue.. I can not fix him.. I can not get into his ‘stuff’… My second and third born I know and can make judgments on what to say and do.
Not with bson.. and maybe this is what hurts the most.. I love to get into people.. as my writing shows here and other places..
Him I do not get to do that with..

Jackie

[keds]

Jackie, you are so right. I guess I think that there should be something there to fix - and there isn't. I just want to help - a need to please that I've always had and can't seem to shake off. It's still early and he has a long time girlfriend that likely takes care of that for him, thank Goodness! She just found out from her dad that he had a son a long time ago with someone in the U.S. Talk about news!

[kune]

keds
I think the gfriend finding about her father's child is a common happening when adoption is freely discussed. The closed generation who didn't talk about such things suddenly sees that paternity or birthmotherhood is not the huge "bogey" it was years ago. You can talk about it with your children and they are not going to judge you like your peers did before. They see half brothers and/or sisters as possible family. I bet he felt good after telling her!!

I have had two girlfriends I have known almost forever. As soon as I spoke about my bson, they told me about the children they gave up for adoption. I couldn't believe that we had all kept silent for so long and hadn't somewhere along the way worked out that it was OK to share with close friends, and we were not alone.

Ann

[RavenSong]

Rose, I really, really think you need some counseling for the rape, itself. Most women are not aware that you can receive free counseling thru rape-crisis centers, even if the rape occurred many years ago. And it does NOT matter if you reported the rape or not.

Having worked rape crisis for many, many years, I truly believe that this type of counseling will help you. I think the reunion with your daughter is exacerbating the anger, shame, and anguish you stuffed down all those years ago when you were gang raped.

Just a thought....

[Robinsmom]

Rose,
You and I are so much more alike than you know. Taking the rape out, not that you ever really could, we have such a similar outlook. I was you, just a few short months ago, on another forum. It seems so real to me, reading it through your words, instead of my own. I can feel your emotions, and believe me when I tell you, I understand. The advice I give you, may at times seem unemotional, but it never really is. I am just passing along some of the advice I was given when I needed help. I was drowning, I had let my birthdaughter make me feel so bad, that I did not think I would ever feel good again. I took every word she said to heart, I let her slam the door in my face, and then let her drag me back through it again. I think the last straw was the photo's she sent of her and her "mom" on vacation. Oh how happy they looked. With her words and actions, she made it clear, there was no room for me. Her amom does not even know she has found me, even after 3 years. I was a mess, heck, I'm still a mess, but now I have made a decision to move forward. When i said don't be a victim, I did not mean the rape, I meant, don't be a victim like I was. There are many things in life that force us to be victims, things we can not control, your rape, my loss of both parents at 16, everybody has something, but i allowed my daughter to make me her victim, I allowed her to hurt me, to belittle me, to ignore me. It is that victim, that I don't want to be anymore. So everyday, I take a good look around, and though not perfect, I have a pretty good life, and I try to focus on that. I focus on my other children, and what they need, and try not to look back and see what I have lost. It's a battle everyday, but so far, knock on wood, I am winning. Don't ever be afraid to vent, it is your best weapon, and it all makes sense to us, because we understand. I can remember posts I wrote that rambled on, kind of like this one, with half thoughts, and whatever I thought I wrote. I really thought people would think I was crazy myself, but they didn't, they understood, they helped when they could, and mostly they listened. Jackie is great at that, she can always manage to find the one thing I say that does make sense, and pick it out of all the rest of the mess. She has been a wonderful help to me. Thanks Jackie.
I want only good things for you Rose, so vent away, it helps us as much as it helps you. Sometimes we all need to be reminded of how we got to the place we are at now. I know it has helped me to see things through your eyes. I hope the roller coaster stops soon.
Colleen

[Jackiejdajda]

I think its unwarranted guilt that keeps us engaged.. Keeps us (some of us) asking for more..

Like in that old English novel where the kid says.. “Please sir can I have more.”

We were so isolated from each other.. I wish I had of known about CUB in the seventies.. I wish I had of told my friends..
And Ann that is something else that your girlfriends had relinquished as well..

I remember going to an Alanon meeting on my bson birthday and telling my story.. and how sad I was..
The support was incredible.. and there was a birthmom there that was in secrecy mode..

There are no books out there on how to do this.. I sure as heck can’t find one.. yes there is The Girls that Went Away.. and it is great that some of us are recognized.. but it was written by and adoptee.. a woman that has not walked the walk..
And I wonder if there are words on how to heal from it in that book.. Maybe there are.. I do not know as I have not read it..

These boards are the way.. for us in my thinking.
We can post anonymously if we want and we can find someone that understands..

No more isolation..

Jackie

[Robinsmom]

Jackie,
Back in the seventies, we were told never to tell. Even though it was a time of freedom for most, having a baby and not being married was still looked at as something only the baddest of girls did. We were almost programed to keep our mouths shut. I think the main reason why I never told anybody was because I felt ashamed, because it was made to be such a secret. I did know one girl who had a baby at the same time as I did. We went to the same place to have our children. She took her baby home, where as I could not. I saw her often, but we never spoke of it. Her mother ended up raising her child. We went to high school together and never talked to each other about this horrible secret we both carried. Though I suppose I would have changed the subject if she had brought it up. The hurt was still too new for me to deal with. Everything back then was to hard to deal with, so I locked myself up inside. Maybe it was a test, to see how much one girl could take without giving up on life all together, who knows, all I can say is that I would wish it on no other.

On the subject of books, I know to some, they are great tools in which to learn from, a place where you can find bits and pieces of the story that relate to you. For me, they have been little if any help, I had been taught to read for enjoyment, so books that were written as non-fiction, have never really been able to catch my attention. Maybe I am wrong, maybe the books would have helped, but for me, it would have been another escape into a world of being alone. Had I gotten into it, i would have spent more time alone pouring over those books, and never found a reason to open my mouth and talk about it. Don't get me wrong, I love to read, and do it quite often, but I can close out the whole world when I am lost in a book. In fact, I am reading a wonderful book right now, that my daughter Rachel gave me, "The five people you will meet in Heaven", it's a very interesting book about who shall guide us, when we get to heaven, it really makes you think. I highly recommend it to anybody who is feeling low about life. It makes you think about the lives you have touched while on your journey, people you don't even know about.

Though i still miss my bdaughter, I have grown used to the idea of life without her. Her birth was a huge part of my life, and who I have become. If I could talk to her, I would thank her, for giving me peace, and allowing me to heal. I may not have been able to do that, had she not come back, or had shut the door right away, not allowing me to know her. I can no longer be angry about it. I got as much as she could give, and though at the time, I thought it wasn't enough, I guess it really was. I am a much better person for having known her. Even though it worked out the way it did, at least I don't have to wonder anymore. It has given me peace and has freed me from the awful guilt I carried for so long. Perhaps in time, we can work it out, if not, I can live with the knowledge I have.
Colleen

[Jackiejdajda]

Colleen (et all) I started a new thread while replying to your post.. Its called.. On the subject of books..
I would love to read discuss what books have helped us birthparents.

On the subject of books

Jackie

[MiniatureRoses]

Sorry I've not been active. Thanks for the thoughts.

Considering some type of counseling again. Just a wait and see situation at the moment.

Sent an email to daughter and havent heard back. It usually takes her a while to respond.(Just a Hello Note for now)

I've been working on the letter.

I've laid out some ground rules and hope they go over well with her. If she wants to vent, she can do so without screaming at me, or I call a timeout. I've suggested some counseling for the both of us. Of course we can't do it at the same time but I will be willing if it will help us. There's a good list but that's the jest so far. I've included the situation concerning her conception. I warned that it wouldnt be easy to understand and I would tell her everything I possibly could if she wants to know more. I'm trying to find a way to reassure her that my feelings for her dont change because of it... I'm really trying to be the person I hope she wanted. A trust worthly loving adult. I may have blown it but I'm willing to try again... being that said, I'm asking her for a second chance and to start over fresh. Maybe she knows she's gone to far and dont know how to back out from all her lashing out. Here I'm giving her a way out, to start over. I'm very willing to move on to a better relationship if she is. I'm suggesting putting it all out there. I want her to tell me how she feels, sees our relationship and what she wants out of it, or how she wants it to turn out. If she is trying to run me off and thought acting out would be easier, then tell me. I can do what it takes to make it better. But no abuse from either side, period.

I've not covered every point but its an overview of the draft so far. Any suggestions as to points to add? Or not to add.

Rose