[Missy M]

One of the moments I've dreaded since reuniting with Tovia is having contact with her B-dads family members. I know most of you are aware of the abuse I suffered at the hands of her B-dad, Don and his brother, Mark....I have never really been frightened for Tovia because Don is in prison and Mark is too crack-addicted to fight off the gnats that swarm around his runny nose. He has been spotted living under area bridges and at times he doesn't appear to know who HE is, its doubtful he'd remember who I am, so he poses no threat but I have no desire to interact with any of them.
The problem is that Tovia has "met" four of her 1/2 sibs from Don (3 different Moms) and two cousins; Marks daughters. None of these kids grew up with their dads and none of them have anything good to say about them. There are no redeeming qualities to discuss. I am pleased that Tovia has learned more of her "history" and has met other relatives but my blood ran cold when she stopped by with 2 of her sisters today. The girls are Tara, age 25 and Dana age 19; they were certainly "nice" enough and very pleasant while here BUT I felt so so so uncomfortable. Not just for me but for her too. It was like chills ran through me. I was reminded of so much that I don't want to be reminded of; not by what they said but just by having them in my home. They LOOK like Don.... I wonder just how much of the "past" they know. I even question why I care.
The problem is Tovia wants / expects me to treat her sisters like sisters. I've socialized with Trent, her A-brother on occassion and I sense that she wants this for her sisters too. She is having Dana and Kia, (my daughter) spend the night at her home and the three of them are going to see Harry Potter and tommorrow going to her church together. Usually she comes here after church b/c our house is between her church and her home. Often she'll raid the 'fridge or eat whatever we're having and just lay around and have a "do-nothing" day. Her kids are with their dad this weekend.
My question is how do I get past my hang-ups and fears? I am not the type of person to act snobbish. I am usually not judgemental and they have given me no reason to dislike them. Like Tovia, they can't help who fathered them and I have no right to hold that against them. I don't even know why I'm feeling this way, but I do. When I'm with Tovia I'm not reminded of Don, but its different even when she talks about them. All I see is HIM. Mike has plans to tell them I'm not feeling well if they come by tommorrow and hope they will leave early. I just need help sorting this out....MissyM

[l-thompson]

Oh Missy ~ I really feel for you on this one big time. You will feel like you are walking on those **** eggshells again. Say too much and Tovia may react again, say nothing and you are the one that is hurting all over again. You really have to look after you at the moment - the last thing you need is additional stress in your life.

As you say in your post, Tovias half sibs from Don had no say in who their father was and you are wise not to judge them, but if their presence is a constant reminder of him and it causes you distress, I believe you have every right to voice your opinion.
I may be speaking out of line here and forgive me if I am doing so..... but given your history with Don I think it is a bit insensitive of Tovia to bring them into your home without first discussing it with you. I understand Tovia wanting everyone to be accepted and be part of the big picture but not if its hurting people that we love. There has to be a compromise here but not quite sure how to achieve it. I guess too, considering the way Tovia has reacted in the past, you are mindful of the way she may feel if you say something to her...its a toughie alright.

Do you think you will ever get over your fears?? I think they are very justified given what transpired in the past ~ for what its worth I don't think for a moment you are over-reacting at all. My blood would run cold too - you are a true survivor.

Missy, no words of wisdom here nor anything truly constructive to offer. What are you feeling inside and what would make you feel comfortable? And what about Mike - he seems to be very grounded and very fair when it comes to these tricky situations. He must be feeling incredibly protective of you even more so these days. What about Kia ~ could she have a chat with Tovia in a sisterly, caring way....like, "I am really concerned about Mom, Tovia and how she may be feeling?"

Take Care Missy (((HUGS)))

[Shoshana]

Wow, this sounds really difficult. Unfortunately, what we know intellectually (the sibs didn't choose their father) doesn't always match our emotions (they remind me of him/then).

Are you asking for advice? Oh, okay
Let Mike get you off of the hook tomorrow, feign illness, whatever. Then call your new therapist. This was a very traumatic episode in your life, on many levels. You've been amazingly adept in integrating Tovia into your life. You never said you were interested/willing to integrate --more-- than Tovia (e.g., the 1/2 sibs and family members). Somehow, it sounds like you've compartmentalized very effectively. Tovia is in a safe box, the others are not. Opening that other box is not easy. So, back to the therapist to help you work through the memories that this is evoking and to come up with a plan on how to handle it. (And in no way am I implying that you --should-- decide to let the others into your life -- that choice is entirely up to you and any decision you come to is your right).

I have two concerns: The first is for your health and peace of mind. The second (and this is the other reason you need to get the therapist involved) is Tovia. At the very least, Tovia is knowingly putting you in a difficult position. She HAS to know this is hard for you. So the question becomes, what is the meaning for Tovia? Is this a test? If you reject her sibs, does it mean you reject her? I think this could potentially be a very tricky situation.

But first things first, and that is taking care of YOU tomorrow. Thank goodness for Mike!

Hang in there Missy, I hope you find some peace and comfort.

[RiverGal]

I have two concerns: The first is for your health and peace of mind. The second (and this is the other reason you need to get the therapist involved) is Tovia. At the very least, Tovia is knowingly putting you in a difficult position. She HAS to know this is hard for you. So the question becomes, what is the meaning for Tovia? Is this a test? If you reject her sibs, does it mean you reject her? I think this could potentially be a very tricky situation

I couldn't agree more! Shoshana's thoughts are the first things that popped into my mind. It seems almost like Tovia is using this "passive-aggresive" concept to see how you are going to react..."Reject them, reject me."

Run for the therapist, Missy! Get some neutral intervention going on here, my friend. Sometimes, logic and emotion mix as well as water and oil.

(((HUGS)))

~Deb

[Missy M]

I may be speaking out of line here and forgive me if I am doing so..... but given your history with Don I think it is a bit insensitive of Tovia to bring them into your home without first discussing it with you. I understand Tovia wanting everyone to be accepted and be part of the big picture but not if its hurting people that we love.

I never even thought of it from this angle Guys... I have been so focused on the "me" part of it that I honestly never imagined that she had a hidden agenda for doing this. I am so alarmed at my reaction to even seeing and discussing them. I felt physically ill when she even said she'd been in contact with them. She told me that on the phone Friday evening; I never said anything negative to her (or positive for that matter) I just let her talk, but she didn't ask if she could bring them over she just dropped in. Kia was here when they arrived; due to the severe thunderstorms Kia hasn't had electricity since Tuesday and she and Faith, her 9 y/o daughter, have been here all week. My other daughter, Keri is in Atlanta on business. Kia was OK with meeting them and until I shared with Mike how affected I was by meeting them he seemed OK...its just me. I just can't stop questioning how affected I am by seeing them. It was like having DON himself in my home. I was almost frightened; it was weird. I actually wondered if I feared her getting involved with them would re-open her contact with him? I didn't even stop to consider Tovia's motives; I just guessed that she wanted to share her happiness, but wouldn't her happiness cause her to call and share it the moment she begin the interactions?
Looking at it this way I have to wonder why she'd do that? Of all my girls, she has been the most caring and supportive of this pregnancy. She even stopped at the Farmers Market Thursday and bought me fresh fruit and took the time to whip up a banana smoothie before leaving....however, it does seem strange that we've not discussed them before now and she didn't mention that she'd even been talking to them, so I wonder what she is up to?
Oh well, I promised Mike I'd let it go for now....its just too stressful to hang on to. Thanks guys for caring...I will meet with Dr. Patterson on Monday and I will take this to her....MissyM

[bromanchik]

Missy,
I do not see a hidden agenda. Certainly it would be different if she brought Don into your home, but these are his daughters that did not even grow up with him. I know it is hard not to let the "sins of the father" visit on his daughters, but try and see them as seperate people not extensions on Don. Certainly you do not see Tovia that way.

[Shoshana]

By wondering what the psychological meaning is for Tovia, I was not trying to suggest that she is consciously trying to hurt you or even cause you stress. The two likely scenarios as I see them, and you'll have a better idea which might be more accurate is that a) it simply never occurred to her that you would have anything other than a positive reaction (but this doesn't make a lot of sense to me because she didn't mention a word of it to you in advance). or b) that this is a different version of the 'go away, don't leave me' dance. it could very well be part of the struggle tovia is experiencing in believing that you love her -- if she makes it difficult for you to do so (in the many ways she has tried), then her anger is justified, and she was right all along. i'm not saying that this is a conscious decision, but it sounds so very similar to many of the other episodes you've experienced with her.

for people with similar psychological issues to tovia, the struggle revolves around fear of abandonment. unfortunately, through their behavior, they accelerate the likelihood of that happening. similar people are also likely to put newly met people on pedestals and accentuate or exaggerate their good qualities - when the person fals from the pedestal, which is inevitable, then the devaluation begins. she may be enamored of these new people in her life right now, but it may not last as it is nearly impossible to live up to those lofty ideals.

missy, aside from what meaning this may or may not have for tovia, it sounds like the depth of your reaction has really surprised you. sometimes, in response to trauma, we deal with it at different points in time, and on different levels. i'm sure you did process what had happened, and move on -- then. but now it's back, unexpectedly. your reactions don't mean that you never healed, or you just repressed the whole thing. it does mean tho', that there is more now that is distressing to you. it is completely normal to be going through this. it is not very realistic to expect yourself to 'just change your thinking.

Missy, So many things came to mind when I read this.

#1. I totally understand your feelings of fear when meeting these girls. The questions are bond to arise...were they brought up with any connection to thier paternal biofamilies? If so, did they learn any of the undesireble behaviors that may hurt either you, your family, or Tovia? They are valid fears......maybe not realistic as you don't really know them...but you really don't know do you? Is this good old womens intuition.....bad karma....your protective antenae going up.....maybe you should listen to it. You may be wrong but you need to give it the time and introsecpection to figure it out.

#2. Maybe you just need to see how much she actually brings these girls around.....also Kia is not stupid and can probably give you a good idea of what they are like.

#3. You have got a lot going on with the pregnancy and all....would Tovia understand that and understand your feelings...or is that asking to much right now from her?

Elizabeth is right.....needs to be brought up with therapist with or without Tovia.


Take care!

Donna

[Jackiejdajda]

Missy wrote..I just can't stop questioning how affected I am by seeing them. It was like having DON himself in my home.

Fear.. Helplessness.. Lack of trust in someone else's judgment..

I remember reading once that if you have an issue it will keep coming back till you sort it..
Face it down..

You can change your mind and let it go.. And you can tell yourself that if you do let it go.. No one is going to get at you again..
I had such a profound aha moment when I realized that forgiveness comes with "I am strong now and this will never happen to me again".



Jackie

[banjo]

I have not been through the incredible trauma etc that you have Missy M (thank God). But your thread sent shivers down my spine. How would I feel if my birthdaughter brought her paternal half sibs (if she has any) to my house? Possibly very uncomfortable and definately it would bring up weird emotions for me. I had never even considered this possibility until I read your thread.

I consider it her right to have a relationship with her bfather's family if she wishes but I have always thought that I would not be part of that...

I think I would be feeling pretty fragile and mixed up - especially having no time to prepare for their arrival. lol Banjo

[Missy M]

Elizabeth...please know that I am so happy as always to have your professional opinion and I never meant to imply that you suggested anything negative about Tovia. I am also wondering what the psychological meaning is for her. In the past she has never shown interest in meeting them and suddenly she is embracing them wholeheartedly. You posted:

"missy, aside from what meaning this may or may not have for tovia, it sounds like the depth of your reaction has really surprised you. "

You are so correct...I have never felt this way about anyone before. Its so unlike me to be leary and suspicious of someone I've just met. Meeting them took me out of my comfort zone. It "rocked my world." It was like having the past flash before my eyes again. I didn't sleep until 5:30 am and consequently we missed church. Mike is worried about me being worried...its not a good situation.

Dpen posted: "#1. I totally understand your feelings of fear when meeting these girls. The questions are bond to arise...were they brought up with any connection to thier paternal biofamilies? If so, did they learn any of the undesireble behaviors that may hurt either you, your family, or Tovia? "

Thanks for posting and understanding; it means so much to feel validated. To answer, Don was with their Mom for appox. eight years on and off; he was in and out of prison/jail during this time also; they actually lived most of those years with their Maternal Grandmother. They have ties with Don's Mother and therein lies a lot of my discomfort. I know they still interact with her; they mentioned her while here; she is their Grandmother, however, I can not stand the thought of knowing that today they are probably discussing ME with HER. I know they have a right to do this but it makes me uncomfortable to have her even know whats going on in my life. I have no logical reason to feel this way; I just can't help it. I placed my daughter for adoption to avoid contact with him and his abusive family and today part of his family are sleeping in my daughters home.
In the end its almost certain that Tovia will be hurt. Not physically but mentally and emotionally. Maybe she needs to go through this to really "get it." I will be here to help her heal when it happens. Kia feels they are gonna "use" Tovia. They are both unemployed and were very impressed with Tovia's "stuff." She went home and got more clothes to spend a few more days at Tovia's house. Tovia is playing "Big Sis" and encouraged Tara to look in her closet and help herself to whatever she wanted to wear this weekend. Its so confusing....MissyM

[l-thompson]

They are both unemployed and were very impressed with Tovia's "stuff." She went home and got more clothes to spend a few more days at Tovia's house. Tovia is playing "Big Sis" and encouraged Tara to look in her closet and help herself to whatever she wanted to wear this weekend.

Maybe I am just overcautious but ...alarm bells are ringing..

[Missy M]

Maybe I am just overcautious but ...alarm bells are ringing..

I don't think you are "over" anything; I have held back on posting the obvious because I dread being bashed in this forum. I know without a doubt they are after more than just a sisterly relationship because they are so very different than Tovia. Both these girls live on welfare and the oldest, Tara, has three kids living in the system due to neglect. She isn't actively seeking to get them back and according to Tovia has been pregnant twice since the state removed them. When she learned Kia was a social worker with CPS she actually high fived her and said the state did her a favor. Quote "Girl, they think they hurt me by taking my kids; they just don't know its summer and I am ready to kick it. The only reason they came out was because my second baby's daddy got mad at me for getting pregnant by another dude and called them when I spent the weekend at the Kappa Beach Party and my little cousin was babysitting; my kids were not neglected." Her youngest is 6 months old; her babysitting cousin 15. Despite being Tovia's 1/2 sibs they are not at all like Tovia or anyone she associates with.
BTW: I saw Dr. Patterson today and laid it all out for her. She validated my feelings and asks that I share them with Tovia in our next joint session on Thursday, but not before then and not without her. I talked with Tovia after work today and I told her that having drop-in company was a little more than I can bear right now and I asked that she call and ask before she brought someone with her. I assured her that it was OK for her to drop in alone, but her sisters were another matter. I didn't say anything negative nor did I share the emotions that I am dealing with seeing them. She accepted this and said she really hadn't planned to visit just found herself close to our home and stopped. Another thing she said was that she doesn't feel the same connection with them that she does with Kia and Keri. I asked her to explain and she said I feel closer to them than I do co-workers and friends but not as close as I do my sisters; I said but they ARE your sisters and she said I know, its weird....I also asked how she came to seek them out and she says she didn't. It seems Don wrote them through his Mom and directed them to her. They sought her out. I kinda figured as much; Tovia just isn't the "reach out" type. She is riding the wave of the reunion high; I don't think it will last. Her sisters are treating her like a star...she has what they don't and they are both needy and impressed. She has become their Idol; its not a role she is used to being in and one that she likes, but it comes with a steep price.
Knowing this has helped relieve my feelings. I am no longer questioning my dislike for having them around. Its OK for me to feel this way and I think even without sharing my personal feelings Tovia is going to pull away from them soon. It simply isn't a bonded, loving relationship.
I posted to say thanks and to let you all know I am much better tonight. I have no fear of Don, he is in prison and would face serious consequences if he tried to contact me. Tovia knows how I feel about her sharing my personal info with him but as Mike says even if she does it won't affect me. Thanks Guys...MissyM

[l-thompson]

So pleased to hear you are feeling much better Missy.

Its reassuring to read of Tovias feelings towards her sisters (from Don's side of the family) Tovia is beginning to form her own opinion and at the end of the day we tend to gravitate towards people like us. Interesting that Don pointed his children in Tovias direction ~ given the background of these girls they have seen an opportunity to latch onto Tovia and see what's in it for them.
Tovias a sensible, educated woman - she no doubt will come down from her re-union high with them.

You take care of you.

[Missy M]

Thanks; and BTW: I am taking great care of myself, in fact I just polished off an entire pint of Baskins-Robbins handpacked Peppermint Patty Crunch ice cream.
I asked myself if deep down inside I fear loosing Tovia to this new-found group of "family" and the answer is YES in some ways I do...I also felt the need/desire to once again "protect" her from Don and anything remotely connected to him despite the fact that she herself is connected to him...UGH!
Kia also stated that as much as she and Tovia knock heads she felt weird sharing her with other "sisters". She said Mom you can see where this relationship is headed and as much as I hate the girl sometimes I don't want to stand by and watch someone hurt her; I want to do that....LOL!
Another shocking thing happened today; Tovia shared that she has bought both Mike and his Dad Fathers Day gifts! It scares me to think she is acting so normal. You know how the music plays to a heightened cresendo before someone is hacked up in the Friday the 13th movies....well I hear the music and I am just waiting it out. Dereks wedding ( and birthday) is on the 19th and we are focusing on that. I have out of town guests to prepare for ( my brother and SIL who she's never met, and 4 of Dereks frat brothers)and I feel if she gets through that without exploding and / or running away maybe, just maybe we have finally "got-it." She declined to be in the wedding party, thank goodness; and I pray that Baskin-Robbins closes down so I'll still fit into the dress 'cause if not at the rate I'm going I'll have to wear the comforter and matching drapes!
I feel better and your support has helped me get here; thanks Guys! MissyM