[Boulderbabe]

I can't imagine feeling more connected to anyone ON EARTH than I am to my adopted son, whether I was connected to this other person by birth, adoption or marriage. If your son's Amom is a normal, psychologically healthy mom, I'm sure she's so attached to your son that she couldn't possibly slight him in favor of another child. She's just opening her heart to make room for one more. :-)

[ourdreamcametru]

Just wanted to add that being the mother of two bio children and one adopted child I don't think she will feel any different about one child than the other. Our kids are 16,11 and 2 and I couldn't tell you which is adopted~ Our love for all three of our children is so strong and there are absolutly no differences in the way we feel towards one over the other.
Just be sure that whatever you decide to do it is an informed decision that you will be happy you made--either way!

[Danielle]

I would like to thank you all for your in put. I see that this is a very touchy subject, apparently people are losing sleep over it which seems rather extreme to me.
No I have not made a decision on this, but your information is appreciated. Although no one person can predict the POSSIBLE confusion a child may face, this child I KNOW would be born into a family full of love. This child would know his/her life story and would know that he/she was created out of love. Even though sexual intercourse was not preformed, love would still exist thruogh the hearts of myself, his/her mother and father. Seeing as everyone here is touched in some way by adoption we should all recognize that biological or not, a family is a family and can and DOES posess the love of any other. As far as "healing"'s post goes, confusion would be of no concern. I would not be an annonomous donor. I would never consider donating just to anyone.
On the other side, I do recognize that controlling the birth of a child seems ethically wrong. And I have definetly taken a new look on things! I had just began to consider this, I didnt look fully into it and that is why I came here for answers. I want to thank you all.
And for healing*- I am sorry you were so disturbed by this thread. Lets try to remember that many people who post on here need advice, and should not have to feel GUILTY for asking. I am not just some random person handing out random eggs. I would never consider this otherwise, but i know the family this child would be born into , and I know that this child would be loved tremendously.
Once again I thank you all so very much. Many of you have opened my eyes to this subject in a respectful way and i appreciate it very much.
Danielle.

[mom2GRLC]

Danielle, what you are considering is a beautiful offer not only for your birthchild, but your childs family as well. You are talking about being a part of creating a beautiful new life...how amazing is that...except rather than it being a strangers (anonymous egg) the child will grow up building the same relationship with you knowing you are her biological mother...both your biological children will feel such a bond with you. You have a wonderful relationship with the adoptive family. You trust them you care for them you know they will love and care for this child just as they love and care for your birthchild. I think the child would feel honored to hear the story of how he/she came to life and how much she/he was loved by everyone involved.

I think it's worth considering. Ultimatley the choice is up to you, but I wouldn't let anyone make you feel guilty, if they are shame on them. It's one thing to share opinions and share feelings but another to say "in this situation it's wrong" how could anyone judge what is right for you....they can't and they shouldn't!!!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

I think it is more of a judgement of what is ethical overall and not a judgement of any one person as a person. I just wanted to clarify that... there is no shame in defining ethics. And this particular person bears no emotion or hand in my opinion of what is or is not ethical.


Still shame on me? Well, ok then. I can live with that. Id rather live with that than someone putting their own health at risk, someone else's health at risk, a child at risk, and taking the risk of children losing parents -- simply so that someone can experience child birth.

It is an ethical line we all have to make for ourselves until laws catch up. If having ethics is shameful to someone... well Im ok with that.

[saxxxy]

Danielle,
I think it would be wonderful for you to donate eggs to your child's Mom. My daughter's Birth Mom has made the same offer to us many times and though we refused we loved her for it. She (and us) are very educated on IVF.

Numbr1,
It seems to me like you have given birth twice, is that right? So you have zero understanding of what it is like to wonder if you will ever have the experience. You say kids are out there but my husband and I have been signed up with foster care and adoption for years. We have one daughter and have lost three children from foster care. Yes, we know they weren't 'our' children but after parenting them each for nearly a year it felt like a piece of us was physically torn from us when they went home. If I thought IVF would actually work for me (or even if I had the money) I would do it not just to have the 'experience', but also because we want to grow our family. If Danielle can help this woman to grow her family and provide a sibling for her child I don't understand why you have such issues with that. Yes, you are certainly entitled to you opinion but perhaps you should leave it as stating you think it's unethical and move on. Don't bring in issues you don't understand like wanting to have the experience of childbirth.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

OK.. I dont think that anyone is entitled to give birth or that anyone is entitled even to grow a family.

I dont need to have the experience of "wanting to experience" because there are many things that I "want to do" but cant and just have to deal with it. I would never allow or expect someone to jeopardize their health or jeopardize my health, or the health of a child because of anything that "I want to experience".

Thank you for the advice of "where to leave it", Im just going to respectfully put it aside.

[mom2GRLC]

[quote=numbr1dbcksfan]OK.. I dont think that anyone is entitled to give birth or that anyone is entitled even to grow a family."

I dissagree. I think we each as human beings male and female were put on this earth and given the commandment to "multiply and replenish the earth". We're not just entitled to it...were commanded to do it.

Everyone DESERVES to have the experience of child birth and raising a family. Unfortunatley not all of us are able to without the help of doctors or adoption.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Oh. My mistake. *checks to see if she took notes on that reproductive commandment day*

No. I must have missed that one.

*checks to see if she has a note saying she was "put" on this earth*

No. Missed that, too.

Can you please cite the source of both that commandment and the group interpretting it? Im sure Im not the only one who missed that day in the class of life. And Im sure we all want to double check and see if we belong to that particular crowd. Thank goodness someone took better notes than I do.

My notes say that I happened to be born to someone living on this planet and not put here.. and that I havent been commanded to do anything outside of a court of law...

And i didnt know that anyone DESERVED anything.... interesting.

Dang textbook variation.

[whitsunday15]

Number1-



bravo!

[mom2GRLC]

You are certianly free to believe what ever you want. Just as Danielle is free to make her own choices of what is right or ethical. She deserves and so do we all, deserve that same respect for our own beliefs and our own opinions.

Thank you for sharing yours, I do see your point of view. It is a subject that takes a lot of thought, something you can't or shouldn't just jump into.

I personally could never donate my eggs to anyone. I have a friend that did IVF and to get it at a lower cost she was willing to donate a portion of her eggs that were harvest for donation to help pay for her chance at motherhood. Well, she did not get pregnant on the first try ...but the woman who received her eggs did conceive. She was able to try it again and did become pregnant but it is still hard for her to accept that a piece of her, her biological child was out there but she was not her mother. I don't think she realized how her eggs were so much more than just eggs....they were HER possible future children the children she had wanted so badly. Either that or she didn't distinguish between the facts of "wanting to help out other couples in similiar situations as hers" verses "getting the extra monetary help they needed to do it in the first place" verses "placing HER possible future baby with that couple".

Would I ever be able to place my child for adoption...No. Would I ever be able to place my eggs for adoption...No. To me it would be the same thing....loosing my child, having him/her raised by a different family. I just couldn't do that. But that doesn't mean it's not right or unethical for others to choose what is right for them in their situations.

[rose32542]

I am new to this forum, and many of your response so this thread surprised me at first. As adoptive parents, many of us have struggled, cried, and hurt for years over the difficulty of creating a family and the longing to do so. I tried for seven yeas to become pregnant with my bio son, and I tried for two years to find the right children to adopt. Both experiences were am,azing, scary, painful, joyful. I am so glad that I had both of them. A person can live a perfectly fulfilled live without having both, or either, for that matter, but if she can and wants to, I see no reason why she shouldn't.

I love all of my sons with equal passion and gratitude. The way in which they came into the family is equally miraculous and unique. If I could safely become pregnant again, I would. Would that make my triplets feel less important? If I get the chance to adopt and feel that the child(ren) belongs in myhome I will. Does that mean I value my bio son less? Of course not. I have special connections to each of my children.

I do understand the reactive and protective way some adopting moms treat the subject of childbirth vs adoption. We always seem to face the attitude that adoption is second best, and feel the need to counter that belief. Well, we here all seem to know that adoption is just as wonderful as childbirth, and, in some ways maybe, more miraculous. That doesn't mean that carrying a child is an experience that a woman who has difficulty conceiving should deny herself.

Someone here said we shouldn't control the birth process. So it should just be all unplanned? If a person happens to get pregnant, then, Yee haw! If not, too bad? Why not take one more step and say that babies are born to the parents that nature, or God intended for them, so anyone who can't give birth shouldn't be a mother. We can take advantage of the situation of a woman becoming pregnant without meaniong to or being prepared, but can't take any steps to direct our own reproduction? God also gave us free will, and intelligence, and power to choose for ourselves and to act on our own behalf and in the interst of others. Many miracle come to pass through the medical and scientific fields, and thes, too ,are gifts from God.

And, is any child born an "accident?" Those of us who are religious (and I am absolutely included here) believe that we are all children of God. If IVF is some sort of abomination, why do children result? Are they mistakes? Should they never have existed? God doesn't accidentally put a spirit into a body, nor are any bodies created without him.

I also tend to think of eggs as almost babies, in that I could never donate them, but there seems to be a contradiction in adoptive mothers saying that an egg shouldn't be given to someone else because it is akin to a baby, but, it is wonderful to give an actual baby to someone else via adoption?

The original poster has already lovingly placed a child in someone else's arms; she knows what taht experience is like. She knows what she is in for emotionally, and while I couldn't do it, bravo to her. The physical risks are another thing, and definitely must be carefully considered. Isn't it wonderful the sacrifices of love we are willing to make for those we care about to bring forth the miracle of a child?

No family is formed, no child enters a home without there being some risk in the process. Adoption, birth, IVF, egg donation-- whose to say God doesn't direct all of them?

[healingfeeling]

She knows what she is in for emotionally, and while I couldn't do it, bravo to her.

Does anyone care about the child in this situation? They are being created in order to be given to another family and so that someone can experience pregnancy and childbirth...

where does God say that is right?


its kind of like when someone has a baby just to save the life of another family member with her stem cells or blood...where is the child's choice in this situation?

but, it is wonderful to give an actual baby to someone else via adoption?

i don't know any birthmothers who have a child soley for the purpose of giving it up for adoption...it seems that is usually a last resort decision and when they are handing over their child i'm don't think that the majority of them feel wonderful about it.

this thread has nothing to do with IVF with your own eggs....I was just trying to help the OP see how the child may view this later in life when they begin to see their identities more clearly....I can only speak for myself as an adopted person, I didn't know how much my adoption had affected me until my 20's...Most of the amom's on here that post regularly have small children who do not voice their concerns or innermost feelings.

[mom2GRLC]

I guess the only place i draw the line is when it comes to cloning...but were not talking about duplicating someones genetic material here....we're talking about someone making a choice wether to place her eggs/possibly future baby for adoption.

I think a thing that may strick a nerve with some birthmothers is that they made the difficult choice to place their child because they loved them and wanted better for them. The placed them up for adoption as a gift/blessing to them NOT to the adoptive couple who are looking for a child.

So in this case...to take and place a child (not in a crisis pregnancy) and place them for adoption JUST to fullfill the adoptive parents needs ...to them maybe wrong. Aside from the whole IVF Egg donation thing.

I think if you had just simply come on here saying you wanted to get pregnant with someone just so you could place it for adoption to her again because she wanted another baby ....you would find the same kind of responces.

Birthmothers(in my opinion) don't appreciate being looked at as incubators or biological material....or that they got pregnant to fulfill anothers dream of parenting.

Obviously all birthmothers think and act differently and I think it is such a beautiful thought that you have, it shows how much you truly love them and care about them.

I have a question for you danielle. It's been 5 years since you placed your baby. You are in a much different place than you were back then. Have you considered having children either in the future or now and raising them yourself? If/when you are ready any child you have and raise WILL be your birthchilds sibling...WILL have a biological connection to her....WILL have visits and memories with her as her sister. That is evident through your outstanding relationship with her family. Just another thing to consider.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

I guess I should clarify that I am speaking as a person and not as a birthmom (who is also a mom that parents -- not to be pigeonholed). If I hadnt placed my daughter in an adoption, I would still hold the same view.

The thing that I take exception to here is the using God as justification technique -- People can and do use "God" as an excuse for almost everything.(Not just Christians)

I suppose I would like, really, to hear what actual justification there is for this. Because all I have heard is that if someone can carry a pregnancy (albeit with shots and constant supervision as a high risk pregnancy, putting herself and the child at risk) then gee, they should be able to.

It seems that there is a giant attitude that all things should fly-- if someone wants it and can pay for it... and if people oppose, just find a bible verse to support it and tell them to shut up.

I would really like to hear some logic other than the bible says so. What justifies the risk? Want?