[ddhuab]

I think you have every right to pursue whatever type of adoption arrangement you prefer. I think there will be an expectant mother out there who will match up with your requirements, and you baby will come to you.

I am just curious, from reading everything you have posted in this thread, if you have considered adoption from China? I am guessing that you want a baby young as possible (and that is a very valid reason), but I am just asking because you are worried you won't find a match. It was my worries about not finding a match that drove us to the somewhat predictable timeline of an international adoption.

Again, good luck to you, and hope you won't find the negativity you perceive here as something to drive you away from the forums... there is really some awesome information available here, and you will also EVENTUALLY find some posts from moms who also made the choice for closed, domestic infant adoptions.

D.

[echaos]

Originally Posted by MrsD820

I guess these are natural doubts, can anyone give me advice as to experiences both in closed and open adoptions?

And now back to your originally scheduled question!

I have experience with both a closed adoption (my own) and an open adoption (my son's).

My experience with closed adoption:

-I grew up never knowing who I looked like
-I grew up never being able to answer doctor questions about my family medical history
-I grew up wondering if the woman at the store with straight hair like mine was my mother
-I grew up loving my adoptive parents unconditionally
-I grew up knowing that I was loved unconditionally
-I grew up wondering if my birth mother had ever loved me
-I grew up never knowing why I was placed for adoption
-My Mom always worried just a little bit in that little corner of her heart that I would one day find my birth mother and reject her, my Mom

My experience with open adoption:

-My son will never question who he looks like, he's the spitting image of his birth mother and his 1/2 brother that she is parenting
-My son will have instant and updated medical information when ever he needs it
-My son will never fantasize about who his birth parents are, he already knows.
-My son will grow up never having to worry that his love for his birth mother is a threat to his adoptive parents
-My son will grow up knowing that his birth mother loves him
-My son will never wonder why he was placed for adoption. At the age of 3 he's already been told his "story"
-My partner and I will never worry that my son's birth mother will try to steal (emotionally) him from us. She is a friend of ours (now)

I hope this helps!

[MrsD820]

Jen,

I guess there's a problem in mindset here. Latter Day Saints don't view adoption as a LOSS of a family. They actually view it as the Gain of a family. Its the child's right to have a complete family, Mother AND Father.

I think its wrong to say they will grow up always and adoptee, that's like saying they'll always be blind.

If anything adoptees should feel far more special and not be taught to grieve for the family they "lost" but to be part of the family that is theirs by right.

That is something ya'll keep saying that's making me very angry. You act like the child is losing. They aren't.

Adoptions are about the wants and needs of everyone involved. If I didn't WANT to be a mother, would I try to get pregnant, adopt or foster???? If the birth mother COULD raise her child, she wouldn't be choosing placement. If the CHILD didn't NEED a mother, he could crawl off to a corner and raise himself. Children NEED love, tenderness and a good home. I WANT to give that to a child, I WANT to be a Mother. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

And you've adopted, if you think you didn't adopt because you WANTED a child, don't fool yourself.

You adopted to fulfill a dream. Don't be a hypocrite and admit it. Its not wrong to dream about family and its not wrong to have one. Adoption is no different than planned pregnancies in that case.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by MrsD820

I think its wrong to say they will grow up always and adoptee, that's like saying they'll always be blind.

So you don't plan on telling your child that he/she is adopted? When you say things like this, that's where people are getting upset/offended, etc. You're words are saying one thing when I can only hope that you mean another.

Adoptees are adoptees. There's really no way around it. You can raise your child to be proud to be a part of your family (as he/she SHOULD!!!!) but he/she will still be an adoptee. It's just a part of the child's life story.

[MrsD820]

Of course the child will know there adopted. My husband and I haven't ruled out an AA child or a child of another nationality. Foreign adoptions are too expensive. But, honestly, I would never ever use the term Adoptee with my child. Son, Daughter, never adopted son or adopted daughter.

Labeling the child like that creates a catagory making them different than their friends and their parents. Knowing your a hunky (eastern european term, not a nice one at that) and being called a hunky is two different things. I am proud of my heritage, but if someone called me a hunky, I would get upset. My child can and will be proud of their adoption and their adopted family without all the labels.

[mom2GRLC]

All I can say is I question.....EVERYTHING relating to a FULLY OPEN ADOPTION (my expereince through fostercare...not trying to judge anyone elses) and the reality of how healthy it really is for EVERYONE involved.

Evertyhing is not as black and white as some may make it seem. Their are postives and negatives to knowing vs not knowing with every subject listed.

Open adoption is not the only way or best way.....what is best for the child is what is best for the family it grows up in. If that family feels semi-open is better than the child would benefit from that...If the family feels closed is better than the child will benefit from that....etc.

I think there really are just a small number of families out there that could really handle a fully open adoption, and if it works for them, then great.

But others should not be made to feel bad for choosing what they feel is best for their child or their family life. Including those who have tried it one way and have found that less contact is better. They should not keep the relationhsip open for the birthfamily at the expense of the child and family.

[kelleymac]

Mrs D:

I'm having a hard time getting through the defensiveness you're displaying on this issue. You've asked a question and received a ton of valuable insight from those who have been there, done that. On this thread you've gotten input from adoptive parents in open and closed adoptions, international adoptions. You've heard from birthparents in open, semi-open and closed situations. You've also heard from adoptees.

No one here is saying you're stupid or that you won't make a good adoptive parent, but your choice of words and tone (both here and in PM) are very off-putting.

We're trying to answer your question and lead you to other resources that may assist you in reaching the answers you want/need. Those answers might be closed adoption, they might be open...who knows but you what's right for your family.

Finally, I don't need you to "explain to me" anything about LDS. I didn't ask, it's not relevant to this discussion.

Adopted children aren't "taught" to grieve their birthfamilies by their adoptive parents or anyone else. If they are of a mind to seek, they will. My grandma (domestic, closed adoption in 1912) did, her daughter (domestic, closed adoption circa 1955) did. I don't know what my son (closed, international adoption) will choose when he's old enough to make a choice, but you should be prepared for the reality that your child will ask/seek/need to know. It'll be their choice, not yours.

Kelley

[MrsD820]

Thank you Mom2,

I appreciate the honesty. Just in the way some of the bmoms and adoptees have been pushy on this thread is enough to make me think Open is definitely not an option for me. I would hate to have a blow up with a birthmom who was getting pushy with me about her visitations, etc.

I'm starting to hear privately that there are amothers out there that have had really BAD experiences. You know, they are actually afraid to come here and voice that opinion because of how loud and adamant that the birthmoms on this board are?????

That there tells me there is a division on the issue bigger than some would like to think.

Perhaps they feel more guilt because they are constantly faced with the bmoms sadness or perhaps the bmom is coming over way to often or interfering.

Perhaps some of you bmoms should sit back and listen a bit more. Maybe the amoms are not as pleased as you might think?

And I have gotten SEVERAL different amoms saying this.

[bmomliz16]

Ouch! I think that being strong in one's beliefs is not a bad thing. These are all just options, everyone is different. Please don't jump all over one or two groups of people because you don't like their opinions or beliefs.

I'm a bmom - closed/private adoption. I had no other choices, but in all honesty I could not have handled an open adoption, that's not congruent with my personality. The amom to our daughter could not have handled an open adoption, it's not in her personality. We have a mutual respect, admiration and love for each other, but we're not having brunch every weekend. In fact, I didn't know her name until she came to me asking for contact, for the best interest of our child.

No one is the same. Nothing is going to work for everyone. These are all options and views for you to take into consideration, not harrassment.

Honestly, I think you made up your mind long before you came here that an open adoption is not for you, but you decided to explore it anyway, and good for you, you should! You have to find what works for your personality, your family, your life. Good luck to you in whatever you choose, and I mean that with all sincerity. We're all in this together, you know.

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by MrsD820

Of course the child will know there adopted. My husband and I haven't ruled out an AA child or a child of another nationality. Foreign adoptions are too expensive. But, honestly, I would never ever use the term Adoptee with my child. Son, Daughter, never adopted son or adopted daughter.

Labeling the child like that creates a catagory making them different than their friends and their parents. Knowing your a hunky (eastern european term, not a nice one at that) and being called a hunky is two different things. I am proud of my heritage, but if someone called me a hunky, I would get upset. My child can and will be proud of their adoption and their adopted family without all the labels.

OH my goodness...honey, I am 48 years old...you will not tell me how to feel, how I should feel or how I should have been taught. Therein lies the problem....you are not listening...

[MrsD820]

I've been in tears for the last three days feeling like everyone is pushing me into something I wasn't ready for......

I have been defensive....its a very sensitive issue. I am a VERY stubborn person and you all just found that out. Sorry.

This is my last post on this thread. I've made the decision to only do a SEMI open. Letters, Cards, Pictures.....

Its become very clear to me that I am NOT able to handle a fully open adoption.

Now, I need to go vent some of this frustration.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by MrsD820

Perhaps some of you bmoms should sit back and listen a bit more. Maybe the amoms are not as pleased as you might think?

And I have gotten SEVERAL different amoms saying this.

*laughs* God bless you.

Our adoption is fully open. And that means everything from discussing our misgivings about our roles (adoptive moms and birthmoms and, in general, moms!) and enjoying each other's company. I have no worries or wonders about how she feels about our adoption, her role, my role or anything. For you to imply such a thing simply makes me laugh.

But then again, you think I'm being pushy. *giggles* I've suggested nothing of the sort. I've only half-arsed my replies here because your defensive wording is hard to even get past and I haven't wanted to push too many red buttons that I see glaring. It's not my style.

I haven't seen ANYONE on this thread be pushy. I've seen women offer you advice. I've seen adoptees share their story. (Honestly: shouldn't we be listening to them the most.)

If you're going to discount everything a birthparent says, you're going to have a hard time learning. We're just as much a part of the triad. Our pushier members haven't even visited this thread yet.

[Jensboys]

MrsD -- more than semi open or closed or fully open you need to really examine what your views are on ADOPTION. Read "20 Things Adopted Kids Wished Their Parents Knew" its a really great start. Being adopted IS a loss to a child - its a loss of their genetic history, their history and their first family. In its place they GAIN a new family, and a new history, but that doesnt erase the original loss. My sons (adopted) are MY SONS - but to become MY SONS they had to go through a loss I cant even imagine. If your husband died tomorrow, you would of course experience a huge loss, but if you got remarried, yes you could and would probably be very happy with your NEW husband, but that doesnt erase the previous loss of all you knew. Adopting IS a loss to you as well - you lose on being the child's only mother. You lose on being genetically related to your child. You lose having complete control over your child's past and attachments. And you get to be a mom.

Adoption and loss are intertwined. Its not a bad thing, but denying it is to ignore something that cannot be ignored, not for your sake and not for the sake of your child.

[Shoshana]

Yup, guess my insights and opinions aren't valuable because I am an pushy adoptee. This is my last post on this thread too. It is very uncomfortable when one's experience is minimized and denied. It's odd to try to have a civil conversation only to bump into defensiveness and justifications for preconceived ideas, all the while negating what was shared with sincerity. I can find nothing rude, critical, or insulting in my posts to you. I have found those things in your responses.

[JPDakota]

Hey MrsD820,
I feel your frustration. This forum is often confrontational. I think that's because we're all pretty passionate about the topic of adoption. But please don't go away.
I get your point about calling your child an adoptee. My parents never introduced me as their adopted daughter. I don't intoduce my daughter as my adopted daughter. She's my daughter. That doesn't mean that my parents ever kept the knowledge of my adoption away from me. That would be ridiculous. They just didn't stamp it on my forehead at every available opportunity. Anyway, I think that was your point.
There's lots of chatter here on the forums about open and closed adoption. In my experience there's a heavy leaning toward open adoption. It is often said to be better for the child. I do not believe that, and sought a closed adoption for the good of the child. That opinion often gets me cast in a bad light. That's just the way it is.
In terms of finding a situation in which all parties seek closed adoption, it happens. It did in our case. We had an international adoption fall through and we lost a lot of money. We picked international because of our desire for a closed situation. Anyway, when that fell through we decided to try for a domestic closed adoption, even though people on this forum told me it wouldn't happen. Happen it did, and we're very happy.
My advice is to know your heart, consider all opinions of course, but make the decision that feels right to you and yours. And hang in there. Again, the folks here are good people. We're just very passionate sometimes.