[jaydensmommy]

Hi. I have a question regarding setting boundaries with the bmom. Here's the scenario: At xmas we allowed DS to see BMom and Bfamily for 2 hours (Bmom is 15 and lives 1-1/2 miles from Bdad - who is my nephew). I had no problems with it as long as I dropped him off and picked him up. We will be down in California (live in another state) and staying with my sister at the end of February (nephew's mom) which is also the Bmom's birthday and I just got an email from her telling me she and her father want to take my son out to dinner for her birthday and they will bring a carseat and also wanted to know what size clothes he wears so they will have things for him when we're down there (visiting California). I feel very uncomfortable with this. I wouldn't have a problem if it were to drop him off at her house for a short time to visit or for a longer visit with me there, but am uncomfortable with someone else driving him. I know if I put my foot down I will get some flack from my sister and probably from the bmom. Am I right to feel this way? When she was pregnant there were some talks about her possibly taking him for a weekend when he's older and when she's older. I said she would have a relationship with him similar to an aunt. She seemed fine with that then. It seems like she just wants to "play house." Also, the last time we were down there which was for 11 days, she saw him for only 2 hrs even though I told her I would bring him to her house to visit if she wanted (her and my nephew broke up and she is not comfortable in his house). I feel I am being reasonable. Is she being unreasonable to request this?

By the way, DS is 7 months old.

Thanks for any responses. This has been x-posted at relative adoption.

Debbie

[Cobb]

He's your son, you make the rules... When my dd was small only very few people were allowed to transport her anywhere. My SIL's who were 16 and 20 were not on that list unless I was with them. Not because I didn't trust them, but because I was a protective mommy who needed time to get used to her being carted around by others.

If you don't feel comfortable, you need to let them know that. While we all hope everyone will understand. Ultimately, you need to be assured of his safety. He doesn't need a stressed out mommy. Plus, you are obviously willing to work with them in other ways to assure she is able to spend time with him. It's always hard to set boundries that others might not like for the first time...

I'm wishing you luck. Let us know what you decide!

[sugarbabysmommy]

It was a long time, nearly a year before my MIL was able to drive my kid with my blessing, and that's with me in the car. Another protective mommy here.

Ask yourself, would you feel differently if anyone else in the family called and asked about taking your ds out for dinner without you?

You mention dropping your ds off for visits, I'm guessing this means you leave and return. Maybe sometimes you should remain, you needn't hover, you could move about the house, visit. I think by always removing yourself from the situation your ds's bmom never has an opportunity to see you being mom, and she never has an opportunity to get to know you or you to get to know her. I think it's wonderful that they can have one on one time with your ds, but you can't nor should you be removed form all interaction between him and his birthmother.

The tricky thing about saying she'd be like an aunt is what are your perspective ideas of being an aunt? In your mind it means one thing, in her mind it probably means another. To her an aunt may very well have overnight visits, pick up the child for dinner without mom etc.

Were you able to talk with your ds's birthparents about what name they would like to go by?

(edit- oops sorry not a birthparent, didn't read the forum heading)

[Ragnarok]

I do not think it is too much for her to ask to take him out to dinner, and from a purely logistical point of view, that would be very difficult for them to do if you will not allow anyone else to drive him.

What does weird me out is the question about clothes. Seems like an odd thing to want to do.

But ultimately, you are his mother. It is entirely up to you what you feel comfortable with, as long as you give his birth mother reasonable opportunities to see and interact with him.

[jaydensmommy]

hi sugarbabysmommy,

The dropping off for a visit was only a one time thing (at christmas). Before that, the bmom and bdad (my nephew) were still together and she always visited at my sister's house. I also knew the bmom before she got pregnant (her and my nephew were boyfriend and girlfriend since age 12) and also during her pregnancy (her last few months were spent at my house with me as her father was going to send her to a home for unwed girls (didn't know they still had them). My feeling is that she wants to pretend that we don't exist when she visits DS.

We actually had discussions about the possibility of future overnight visits (during the pregnancy) and I told her that when he was older and able to decide on his own, if he wanted to have an overnight visit with her (and if she was stable) that it would be fine with me, but not until then. I used the analogy that my youngest nephew (now 5) could sleep over at my house if he wanted to but it would be his choice, I wouldn't force him.

I've only gotten an Email from the bmom and haven't spoken with the bdad yet, but will be talking to them about what they want to be called when we go down there at the end of February.

After reading my message, I realize, as both posts mentioned, that I have to do what I feel is right for DS and us and, at this point in time, if she wants to take him to a restaurant we'll have to be there with him and for the near future I"m going to have to insist that visits be with me around. I have a feeling that this will not go well and that she will be offended as she told my sister that she wrote love, mommy, on DS's christmas card out of spite because I wouldn't let her grandfather's girlfriend pick up Jayden for Christmas but dropped him off at her house.

No, I wouldn't feel differently if it were someone else that wanted to take DS somewhere without me or my DH being present. I would want to be there and would wonder why the person didn't want me present. I was trying to make an exception for the bmom, as she did give birth to him -- that maybe I should feel different about it -- but I don't. I feel very uncomfortable with the fact of him going somewhere without me at this stage regardless of whether it would be with the bmom or anyone else.

I think the problem is that they don't see him as my son. It's like I'm just taking care of DS for bmom and I can just be put aside like I don't exist. I realize I'm going to have to make some very tough decisions in the future, just didn't realize the future would be so soon.

Thank you both for quick replies.

Debbie

[tobeafamily]

Debbie,

You're right, this is the time to set bouandaries, and it can be tough. It's important though, not just for you but for his bparents. Since this type of relationship - open adoption - isn't truly mainstream, there are no societal guidelines that say 'what is appropriate'. That's why people make analogies to an "aunt", "uncle" or just flounder around.

The longer y'all flounder, though, the harder it is. Bparents cannot move through the grieving process and heal. You and DH cannot release the tension all paparents feel. The relationship stifles, does not grow in a healthy way.

It's especially challenging, though, because these bparents are so very young, not emotionally mature. For teenagers, it's all about them and they don't relate well to compromise, collaberation, and anything they don't like.

Your comment that you feel like they don't accept you as parents is telling. It's time to treat them, well, just like any other non-parenting relative. It's not a contest, you are yuor child's parents, I find the less you insist on it vehemently, the more it's simply accepted.

You might also check in with Brenda Romanchik at Open Adoption Insight (www.openadoptioninsight.org) too and see what her thoughts are.

HTH

Regina

[jaydensmommy]

"as long as you give his birth mother reasonable opportunities to see and interact with him.[/quote]
We have visited California four times in the last seven months. Each time we have let her know when we'd be down there, and offered to go to her house, offered her to come to my sister's house and offered her to come to my house in Arizona. During the last three times she spent very little time with him, even after going so far as to ask DH and I if we could come down there on Halloween so she could "go trick or treating with him" and then when we did come down she spent 10 minutes with him and didn't want to go "trick or treating" with him because her friends might see her with him.

[tobeafamily]

Debbie,

Time to start making trips on your schedule, not just b/c they have asked. She wants to trick-or-treat with your son? Wonderful. When will she be arriving in AZ and how long is she planning on staying?

Travel is going to get tougher, not easier, as he grows - 6 hours on a plane with a 2 year old I can personally attest is no fun. If you're in AZ, I imagine you're driving to CA? That's quite a trip (DH is from AZ, Tucson, we moved from there to San Diego, then to Virginia). 8 hours with a toddler in a carseat they hate is excruciating (BTW invest in an in-car TV/DVD system if you plan on doing this...soooo worth the money and I don't care how many times I have to listen to "Elmo in Grouchland").

Also, remember, she's young, she's not mature, hence the not wanting friends to see her with him. She doesn't really think things through like an adult would. Understand too that it may be very hard for her to actually see him and she masks it by avoiding. It's hard too for her to recognize and acknowledge the efforts your making - going out of your way to travel long distances and such.

Believe me, Ryan's bparents are older than your son's, and they struggle too. They want to see him, then when they get the opportunity they spend very little time with him. It hurts to not see him, it hurts to see him.

So we plan our travel around our schedule, hope for the best and remember that right now he needs us most. We're paving the road though so when he does need them to walk with him, he can. Does that make sense?

Regina

[sugarbabysmommy]

Oh, I so know what you are feeling. I only have minute, it's lego time, so I will post to your comments during nap time- if I'm not asleep too. I just had to write and chuckle about Brad's statement regarding the clothes. I had the opposite reaction, for me the clothes don't really matter. My only concern when our child's birthparents purchase clothes is size, they never ask for current sizes so we are often given things that are already too small. I am going to start telling my child's birthmother as part of our "what's the kid up to now" chats what the current sizes are. I guess I just figured they would ask if they planned on buying something, like everyone else does. I hate that they spend money on things that don't fit.

I have other concerns about gifts that are things I don't allow as a parent- but that's a whole other deal.

[sugarbabysmommy]

Debbie, there is history between you and the birthmom, and I hope you are able to build on it. It may take time given all of her feelings surrounding placement, and her age. As Regina said, they are young teens and right now it all about them.

She may well want to pretend you don't exist, you clearly do and that is hard for her. I know what it feels like to believe this is how you are seen by your child's birthfamily. In my case it is hard for my child's birthmom, she loves me but she also doesn't like that I exist, if that makes any sense. She's happy her child has me, and at the same time she is not.

As Regina said, you needn't pound on your chest and shout I am mommy, acknowledge me, see me! Just be mommy, be exactly who you are *all* of the time, your child needs you to do this. (and you need to do this for yourself) It will be hard for all involved, they will be upset, your sister will guilt trip you, you'll feel bad for upsetting them, but this is the reality of placing. Clarity is best. My guess is that everyone knows this deep down, it's just going take some time for it to be fully acknowledged. I am speaking from personal experience. For a long time I held back when in my child's birthparents' presence, I was so afraid of hurting them. I told my husband he was to be the primary care giver to our child in their presence, I was that afraid of putting my role as mommy in their face. What I ended up doing was stifling myself to an unhealthy degree, I also was teaching my child to not need me, to not depend on me while around the birthparents. That is not the message I wanted my kid to get, I want my child to always know I am here no matter what. I also began to feel I was encouraging them (certain birthfamily members, not all) to see me as only a care taker by deferring my mothering while in their presence. Not a message I wanted to send.I admit, I still hold back to a certain extent, after more than a year it's hard habit to break.

She is hurt by her lack of control, and hurting about the placement, and you are going to be the target I'm guessing. I'm frustrated by the lack of support you I sense you are getting from other family members in dealing with all of this. Was there any sort of counselor involved in this placement? Open adoption relationships need to be worked on and nurtured, and when in families I fear this work is even harder. All the best. Let us know what happens.

[jaydensmommy]

Dear Babys Mama,

Quote: As Regina said, you needn't pound on your chest and shout I am mommy, acknowledge me, see me!

I definitely don't do that, and actually probably do more of the opposite which, as you stated above, probably isn't good either and I'll have to start changing that. LIke you, I was trying to help them avoid the hurt but I realize that's impossible now.

Quote: there any sort of counselor involved in this placement? Open adoption relationships need to be worked on and nurtured, and when in families I fear this work is even harder

No, no counseling was involved with the birthparents. DH and I spoke to a psychologist though. I tried to get the bmom counseling, but she refused. Even the school she attended while she was staying with me tried to encourage counseling and she didn't want it. Since the adoption, I think she may have talked to her father about getting her counseling but don't know if it was followed through. My nephew refuses counseling. It was a private adoption that was put through via our county attorney's office (they have a program here where they don't charge for straightforward adoptions and all you pay for is the social worker visit and fingerprints), so there was really no attorney involved either to facilitate the adoption. We were all on our own.

Thank you for your insight. It's nice to talk to others who have been in similar situations. This is the first adoption in my family and we don't really have anyone to talk to regarding the adoption within the family so it's nice to have these forums to ask others who have been there.

Thanks again.

Debbie.

I'll try to post later and let you know how it goes.

[missingmyboy]

Hi - bmom in a very open adoption here. I just want to start this post with telling you a little about me. I am in my mid 30's and a single mom to a teenage boy whom I have raised alone. I have a bson who is now 10 months old. His adoption is open and we are all very comfortable with each other. I selected the aparents when I was 4.5 months pregnant and we met in person for the first time when I was 5 months along. I have come to love them dearly. They were even both in the delivery room.

I give you this background as I want you to see that my situation is very different then this bmoms in that I am a grown woman who would be quite cable of caring for my bson for the day. Having said that, I would never ask for OR want such a thing. I see my bson regulary (monthly but it was weekly the first couple months). My older son and I visit him in his home with his parents or they visit us in our home. The "alone" time that I get with my bson is in their home for very short periods when I take him to his bedroom alone to rock him in the rocking chair that is in his bedroom. I am really uncomfortable doing this as visits are not just about us but about building a relationship with him and his parents. I don't have alone time when he visits with his parents to my home only bc my home is so small. The time I do have him "alone" in his bedroom is short for 2 reasons. I don't want to make his parents uncomfortable and I want to maintain a strong relationship with them which means spending time with them too. I don't want to take away from them but to add to my bson's life.

I don't think it is even appropriate at such a young age for a bchild to go with bparents without aparents around. I would never dream of asking for such a thing and I would surely expect to be told "no" if I did venture there. I hope with time, years down the road, that I can take my bson out for an ice cream or something little without it being an issue. However that would develop with trust.

I think it will hard for you though because you have already allowed her to spend time with your son without you in the picture. If I was given that once, I would expect that it would continue. Why give it once to only then take it away? Know what I mean?

As for she doesn't see you as your child's mom, she can only come to do that by seeing you in that mothering role every time she is with her bson.

As I said, I am the mom to another older child too. I personally didn't allow anyone to take my 7 month old out without me. I think that is just normal for a mom of such a young child.

Setting boundaries is a good thing but they shouldn't be confusing which they will be when you offer such contact (without you) and then take it away. I would not be surprised if she will be very upset by this. However with time she will adjust.

Shell

[sugarbabysmommy]

Hi, my main reason for making the "pound on the chest and hear me roar" comment was because sometimes I think it's the knee jerk response to go in the totally opposite direction when we feel we aren't seen as mom. You know what I mean? I read it a lot on these forums and on other groups I belong to. When someone begins feeling threatened they go way over board in the opposite direction and become more strident, or picky, or whatever. I'm not suggesting you are, not at all, I was just saying we (I inlcude myself here too) need only be as we are, we should only be as we are, we shouldn't make ourselves "more" or "less." I hope that makes sense. Like I said, I struggle too, I have had to find my own help to be able to recognize what I was doing.

The dynamics of our adoption are much more straight forward than yours, and we had a counselor help us when our relationship was forming. Have you considered contacting an open adoption agency in your area and inquiring if you could set up counseling only appointments for yourself and your husband? It might help you to navigate and provide you with some more persectives on openness. You mentioned you spoke with a psychologist, and it couldn't hurt to that again if you feel you need to. Have you read any books on open adoption? Would you be willing to? There are some books that would be good to pass on to other family.

Take care

[tobeafamily]

Debbie,

You might want to check out "Adoption is a Family Affair: What Friends and Family Must Know" by Patricia Irwin Johnston. It's probably at your local library, or if not in the bookstores, on Amazon, Tapestry, etc. Read it first and see if it applies. We sent it to all our family & close friends as this is our 'first adoption' too (though since then my cousin adopted a sibling group) and everyone said it helped. Since yours is a relative adoption, the dynamics are different tho.

HTH hang in there.

Regina

[jaydensmommy]

Well, the Sh** hit the fan. I emailed the bmom to let her know that I was uncomfortable with DS going somewhere without us at this age and explained why, as well as it wouldn't be forever (she'd be able to take him for outings when he's older and she's older). I told her that if she wanted DS to go to the restaurant on her birthday that we would arrange our schedule for us to be there if that's what she wanted.

Nope, she wants him w/o us there and told us that we were being unfair and that since she "gave birth to him" we really should have no right to deny her taking him for "just 4-5 hours". She really got nasty in the letter.

I emailed her back to address this, that we were not being unfair, that we had discussed all this prior to her going through with the adoption, about visitations and alone visitations when he's a few years old (and he wants to go). I also was upset at her response and told her that we adopted Jayden. We're not just "babysitting him for her." I told her regardless of whether I gave birth to him or not, he was our son, and I had to do what was best for him and I also told her that I was upset that she told us that we had no right to decide what was right for our son and asked her why she didn't want us there, did she want to pretend that we didn't exist.

I then spoke to her later today and asked her what she wanted to do on her birthday, did she want us there and if so we needed to make arrangements. She said right now she didn't know.

I also spoke with my sister, who said that both her son (bdad) and bmom regret relinquishing their rights and are upset because they can't be "mom and dad" to him even though he's adopted. One of my AOL screen names is Jaydensmommy. I haven't even used it for email, but bmom has a screen name on my account and when she went to switch names Jaydensmommy came up as a choice. She got very upset, called my nephew, he got pissed off and went off on my sister saying I had "no right" to do that. She told him, well, he is her mom and my DH is his dad, that he was daddy too, but that we were also.

My sister also can't understand why I won't just let bmom take him for 4-5 hours, it shouldn't be any big deal. I asked her if she would feel the same if I gave birth to him or if I adopted from outside the family. She didn't answer. I told her that she's too close to the situation, being her son is involved, and I have to decide what's right for me and DS.

I also told her it's an extremely open adoption, they can come up and visit whenever they want (parents said they would get plane tickets for them) and I go down there at least every two months and I felt that she was being unreasonable to her son and the bmom.

I really appreciated all your comments on this board. It really helped me to see things more clearly from both sides and to make the decision for the right reasons. I realize it's going to be a hard road ahead, especially in the near future, but that boundaries have to be set now or things will probably get way out of control. I may lose a family member over this. I hope not.

The good thing is that pretty much the rest of our extended family finally understand and agree with me and think I am doing what is best for DS right now, even though it's going be hard on my sister, her son and the bmom.

BTW, my sister is finally taking her son for counseling after him failing in school, leaving out all night, and making threats (she tends to ignore things until they get really out of hand). She says she feels bad that he gave up his rights and that he should have kept DS.

Right now, both bparents hate me and DH and we'll have to live with that. Hopefully, we'll all be able to work this out and be stronger for it.

Debbie