[xxsurroundedbyxy]

This was what I was referring to when I said "who knows what she could be telling this child in your absence". I was afraid that your daughter would hear from her biomom that SHE is her mom and not you and you definitely have the right to be the one to decide when and how your daughter is told she is adopted.

I also stick with you on the tatoo. She has every right to tatoo her body how she wishes but her decision to put it in a place that is seen by everyone everyday and I am sure brings lots of questions was inappropriate and IMO unhealthy on her part. This leads to her telling others on a daily basis that her sister is raising her child. Now, if she was not a family member and just a young woman who chose your family then telling everyone she saw would not be so hurtful to you and your family and you would not feel that YOUR privacy was violated each time she told. But the fact is.....if they know her then they now know when they meet you that your daughter is adopted without you even deciding to share that information. I, too, stick to my original comment that I think her immaturity led her to do this as a rebellious act.

Your boundaries with your mom will have to be put in place as well. I know this must be so hard on her (my mom would be just like your mom in this situation and sadly she did not ask to be put in the middle) but she is doing a disservice to both you and your sister by allowing unhealthy contact between biomom and your daughter. I would ask that all contact be cleared with me first. If she can't or won't abide by your wishes, it may turn out that you have to cut ties until they see that you are serious about this. She probably feels some guilt about your sister relinquishing her daughter to you and feels pity towards your sister and makes up for this by allowing some "private time" w/o permission.

An open adoption with family is so hard because there are SO many avenues of contact between the biomom and adoptee and amom. In a "regular" open adoption, visit frequency and boundaries would have been discussed at the time of relinquishment or before and probably even put into writing. Something else you may want to consider. But with your situation it is hard to say, "I would like for you to visit DD once a week or once a month, etc" so visit frequency is a little out of your control if you are not with her 24/7 and other family members are also caretakers. However, what is in your control is some boundary settings and some stipulations on those visits----like where, for how long, what is said, where your child sleeps and with who, who is truly in charge of her at Grandmas, etc.

I feel like your sister is trying to have the best of both worlds. She gets to "pretend" to be the mom at times with this child (like the sleepovers at Grandmas, etc) but she has no real responsibilities to this child.

You have the right to feel secure in your "mom" status. I think you feel that you owe your sister something. You do. Your gratitude for giving birth and doing what was best for this child that you love and respecting her position as biomom. But that's all. You don't owe her contact with the child at her whim......you love her enough to allow contact with the child. So don't beat yourself up for pulling back some. You don't have to "make things okay for her" as you put it. Only she can do that and only she can decide when and where to get the help to do that if necessary. Your job is to be her sister and the best mommy that little girl could ever ask for.

[Oceans]

I am wondering if you should really be focusing on your relationship with your sister prior to setting up all sorts of new boundaries/rules. It may be time for Gma to take the kids while you two sit down and have a heart to heart. Write down what is bugging you so you don’t forget anything. Also, listen to how she is feeling and take that at face value – don’t try to figure out why she feels a certain way – ask why (for instance about bdads family and the adoption in general). Let her know how important the relationship is between the 2 of you - if only for your DD's sake. Keep this convo going - maybe set up a time every once in awhile you two can chat - even on the phone. Nothing formal - just on going.

I would also try to forge a relationship with her that has nothing to do with the adoption. Be interested in her job, her school, her boyfriends – something. Share something about your life that’s funny but can be a source of on going conversation. You are probably more of a parental figure to her at this point. It might be good for you both to work on becoming friends/sisters. Try to bring her up to your level, so she feels you are equals. It’s hard to not be judgmental about what 19yo's say & do but hey, we were all there once.

Additionally, I can’t help but feel that a lot of issues will clear up once everyone in your family gets on the same page about your DD’s story. Until that happens, you are going to continually worry about who is saying/doing what. It is probably most important for your son at this point. It will soon become very apparent to him that his sister is treated differently by his Aunt. That may end up hurting his feelings if he doesn’t know why. There are lots of good children’s books out there to help introduce the concept and the “who grew in my tummy/who grew in Aunt K’s tummy/you both grew in my heart” story could be a fun game for them.

I know you would prefer that your sister treat them as equals but that may never happen. It would be incredibly hard and she obviously loves your DD to pieces – that’s a good thing – especially your daughter.

[mlb2008]

[quote=xxsurroundedbyxy]This was what I was referring to when I said "who knows what she could be telling this child in your absence". I was afraid that your daughter would hear from her biomom that SHE is her mom and not you and you definitely have the right to be the one to decide when and how your daughter is told she is adopted.

I also stick with you on the tatoo. She has every right to tatoo her body how she wishes but her decision to put it in a place that is seen by everyone everyday and I am sure brings lots of questions was inappropriate and IMO unhealthy on her part. This leads to her telling others on a daily basis that her sister is raising her child. Now, if she was not a family member and just a young woman who chose your family then telling everyone she saw would not be so hurtful to you and your family and you would not feel that YOUR privacy was violated each time she told. But the fact is.....if they know her then they now know when they meet you that your daughter is adopted without you even deciding to share that information. I, too, stick to my original comment that I think her immaturity led her to do this as a rebellious act.

Your boundaries with your mom will have to be put in place as well. I know this must be so hard on her (my mom would be just like your mom in this situation and sadly she did not ask to be put in the middle) but she is doing a disservice to both you and your sister by allowing unhealthy contact between biomom and your daughter. I would ask that all contact be cleared with me first. If she can't or won't abide by your wishes, it may turn out that you have to cut ties until they see that you are serious about this. She probably feels some guilt about your sister relinquishing her daughter to you and feels pity towards your sister and makes up for this by allowing some "private time" w/o permission.

An open adoption with family is so hard because there are SO many avenues of contact between the biomom and adoptee and amom. In a "regular" open adoption, visit frequency and boundaries would have been discussed at the time of relinquishment or before and probably even put into writing. Something else you may want to consider. But with your situation it is hard to say, "I would like for you to visit DD once a week or once a month, etc" so visit frequency is a little out of your control if you are not with her 24/7 and other family members are also caretakers. However, what is in your control is some boundary settings and some stipulations on those visits----like where, for how long, what is said, where your child sleeps and with who, who is truly in charge of her at Grandmas, etc.

I feel like your sister is trying to have the best of both worlds. She gets to "pretend" to be the mom at times with this child (like the sleepovers at Grandmas, etc) but she has no real responsibilities to this child.

You have the right to feel secure in your "mom" status. I think you feel that you owe your sister something. You do. Your gratitude for giving birth and doing what was best for this child that you love and respecting her position as biomom. But that's all. You don't owe her contact with the child at her whim......you love her enough to allow contact with the child. So don't beat yourself up for pulling back some. You don't have to "make things okay for her" as you put it. Only she can do that and only she can decide when and where to get the help to do that if necessary. Your job is to be her sister and the best mommy that little girl could ever ask for

[mlb2008]

.....if they know her then they now know when they meet you that your daughter is adopted without you even deciding to share that information.

A perfect way for me to express what I feel.

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by mlb2008

We plan on telling our DD as soon as I learn when the best time is. There has never been a doubt about the fact she is adopted. But who the birthmom is seems, like it will be so confusing. I realize I need to start certain words in her vocab in the next 6mos. to a year (she'll be 3 in Aug.) but if we continue to have the same amt of contact I don't know if you wait to reveal the bmom or what the healthiest route is. If I had to guess I would say honesty as soon as possible would be the best thing for my DD.

It is often said that children are only as confused as the adults around them. If you can get all the adults on the same page then you should be able to explain these things to your daughter using age appropriate language.

Side question, for all in relative adoption I suppose: Is it a common practice to not tell the child who the bparent is? I'm just curious

Originally Posted by mlb2008

My brother (12yrs old) does not know he's adopted. My parents have been making excuses for years. Last summer he found a newborn picture with his bio-last name. And they managed to to get out of telling him again. We feel bad for our brother and our parents for not having the courage to tell him or willingness to research how to go about it now he's a pre-teen. I guess that's another forum entirely.

Again, I think that this situation with your brother may really be putting added stress on your sister and really influencing how she's handling this.

[feelingreyt]

Thanksgiving, I am not sure if it is common practice not to tell who bmom is not in a relative adoption. But I know that we plan on telling our son who his bmom is when he is older. Not sure what "older" is yet, but I'm sure it will be sooner rather than later. He is only 6 months old right now, so we have alittle time to sort it all out.

[DCMomLady]

Hi, MLB. Welcome to the tangled world of relative adoption and to this wonderful site for info and support.

Before I tell my story, I want to say that I think your sister's tattoo is her way of making sure that she is not the family secret that your aunt is in your brother's life. Thus, the highly visible location of her tattoo. She took the decision about adoption honesty away from you and your husband but it is probably the decision you would have arrived at eventually. The tattoo may even become a source of comfort to your daughter as it is a visible declaration of how important she was to her birthmother -- and that is a question that many adoptees struggle to answer for themselves.

As to boundaries, only you can know what's appropriate and safe for you daughter -- and that must be your primary concern.

My daughter was not relinquished. She was taken from my niece by involuntary TPR at 18 months and the court ordered no contact. But we are the parents now and we choose to have an open adoption with occasional visits, always supervised by us in our home or in public places like parks and restaurants. They play together but there is no mother/child intimacy in their relationship, and I would definitely frown on that if it ever happened.

We are quite strict in enforcing the boundaries we've set for visits. My niece is not allowed to bring her boyfriends or even her girlfriends to our home or on family outings because they are mostly dopers and criminals. We've also excluded the maternal birthgrandma (my own sister) for the same reasons. My sister is invited only once a year to visit, on Christmas or Thanksgiving, and she is known to my daughter as Nana J---- not Grandma.

Like you, we also went against my niece's wishes that the birthfather's family be excluded. The biodad may be a worthless, drug-dealing scumbag but his parents are wonderful people and they have been very supportive of their grand-daughter and us. They are the folks that my daughter sees as her grandparents because my husband's parents are deceased as is my own mother. Fortunately for us, we don't have the complication of other relatives with their own agendas.

Because your mother seems to have an agenda that calls for nurturing the mother-child relationship between sis and your daughter, I would think about limiting her contact, too. I understand that private daycare and babysitters are very expensive but you would not have any worries about conflicting messages that your daughter may be receiving. Your mom can still be the loving Grandma but you will have more control over the situation.

Regarding the best time to tell your daughter about her birth -- we faced the same question even though our daughter was older when we adopted. Because her original home was a place of chaos, neglect and abuse, she completely blocked those memories and wanted to believe that she was born to us. That was easy for her because we were there at her birth and visited frequently during her first year. There were lots of baby pictures showing her in my arms. We decided not to let her cling to that lie so we frequently referred to her adoption in general ways, like when we watched Stuart Little together at age two. We celebrate her Adoption Day every year with special activities but this is a day reserved just for us. Birthmom is not included because we know it's not a day that she remembers with any joy. Telling my daughter about my niece proved to be just as easy. The first time she asked about being in my tummy (like her preschool teacher), I told her the truth that she was hatched in J's tummy and was our beloved niece before we adopted her. I showed her happy pictures of my pregnant niece so she would know there was love between them.

My niece seems happy now that we adopted her child and there are no scenes or recriminations to worry about, although there was a difficult time with my sister who didn't like the fact that the court said she was unfit to parent and gave the baby to us.

Anyway, that's my opinion and my story for whatever it's worth. I hope your family will know the peace, love and joy that we know.

[xxsurroundedbyxy]

DC MomLady~
I wanted to ask you about your situation. When we were in PRIDE training there were some kinship placements that were going to adopt some of their grandchildren.

They were told in class that if the court ordered "no contact" that they could have NO contact whatsoever with that family member....no Christmas or anything if that person was present. We all thought that was harsh and almost impossible to live by if you wanted to see extended family members at holidays.....but they insisted that if there was a "no contact" order and you allowed contact that your children (foster or adopt) could be taken away from you because the judge put that order in place for a reason.

Hmmm. So I was just wondering if the judge left you a limited order where you could decide for yourself or if each state is different, etc.

I know these people were crushed to know that they would have to juggle all family events from now on.

Kim

[DCMomLady]

Our lawyer told us that the judge only made a no-contact order so my niece and her husband would know they had no right to visitation or any involvement in our daughter's life. The order was really a directive to them. Our lawyer said that it would be completely our decision who we allowed to be around daughter once she was our daughter. We chose to enforce the order against the birthfather, whose own parents have banned him from any contact with their family. But we love our niece and know that she won't/can't hurt our daughter and she's agreed to our rules about her associates and her sobriety.

I live in hope that it's a happily ever after situation for all of us.

[Kat-L]

Originally Posted by BellaNuosci

I respectfully disagree that any "boundary" has been crossed. Your sister tattooed her own body, with a birthdate that belongs to her child which she also nurtured and grew within her own body.

I agree. Maybe having the tattoo as a constant reminder helps her deal with her loss. It's not a big deal (in my opinion). The tattoo is something concrete that testifies to the fact that she gave birth to someone who was very important to her. Important enough to make the date a permanent part of her being.

She has every right to tatoo her body how she wishes but her decision to put it in a place that is seen by everyone everyday and I am sure brings lots of questions was inappropriate and IMO unhealthy on her part. This leads to her telling others on a daily basis that her sister is raising her child.

The adoption story is her story, too. She shouldn't be made to feel bad for thinking about it or talking about it. Why is it inappropriate or unhealthy for her to tell her own story about being a birthmom? Maybe it opens doors for her and will give her a chance to meet others who have also been involved in adoption.

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by DCMomLady

Before I tell my story, I want to say that I think your sister's tattoo is her way of making sure that she is not the family secret that your aunt is in your brother's life. Thus, the highly visible location of her tattoo. She took the decision about adoption honesty away from you and your husband but it is probably the decision you would have arrived at eventually. The tattoo may even become a source of comfort to your daughter as it is a visible declaration of how important she was to her birthmother -- and that is a question that many adoptees struggle to answer for themselves.

I agree completely! I believe that it is her body and that the child does have a right to know who she is and where she came from. It's part of her story.

DCMomLady, thank you for your insight! It's much appreciated!

[Oceans]

The adoption story is her story, too. She shouldn't be made to feel bad for thinking about it or talking about it. Why is it inappropriate or unhealthy for her to tell her own story about being a birthmom? Maybe it opens doors for her and will give her a chance to meet others who have also been involved in adoption.

I strongly agree. I had to keep my story "secret" and as I look back, I see how I acted out in other ways as a result. I certainly rebelled against my parents after I placed and I was fairly obedient until that point - LOL – Unplanned pregnancy aside…

[xxsurroundedbyxy]

I agree the story is hers as well, but she should choose to who and when to tell it. I think a tatoo ON HER WRIST advertises and begs people to question what it stands for (she could have put it somewhere not on constant display--that's what I think is unhealthy). She can tell whoever she likes her birthmother story as long as she says her daughter was adopted. I don't think she should say "by my sister" because that is her sister's business.

We are all going to have our own opinion on this, but it is MLB2008s feelings that are first and foremost in her situation and she deserves some privacy even her sister doesn't want to be the family "secret". She needs to decide how to tell her story WITHOUT telling her sister's as well.
Kim

[Lynard1210]

We are in a relative adoption and my daughter just turned 3. Her birthmom has no contact by her own choice. However, if she were involved, there would be strict boundaries in place. Under no circumstances would I allow her alone with dd for the simple reason that I don't want her explaining the adoption to our daughter first.(due to history of lies and untrustworthiness). I don't think you have to worry about your mom discussing it since she hasn't told her own son (a very serious issue for your brother and one that you might considering addressing yourself). The tatoo is a non-issue, really. If your daughter notices it, you can simply explain that her birthmom loved her so much that she always wanted to think of her when she looked at her wrist. Sounds silly but let's not blow the tatoo out of proportion. I agree with Kim about the boundary issues. They need to be laid out in a respectful way and if you can't communicate with your sister, then just simply tell her what they are and why. No need to be dramatic or mean - just matter of fact. Once healthier boundaries are in place and as your sister matures, you might be able to talk more openly about what is best for dd and here is a thought, maybe you could all sit down together and tell her her adoption story! Wouldn't that be awesome? I wish I had that option with my daughter, but we don't. My daughter knows she is adopted already at 3. Does she understand its meaning? Not really - but we are laying the groundwork for the future.

I think it's great that the paternal grandparents are involved and I would ignore your sister's dislike for that. You know what is best for your daughter and the boundaries can get blurry as soon as you allow guilt to stop you from doing what you know is best.

Good luck, hang in there and feel free to pm me.
Lynn