[mackgreen]

Last December, my sister in law gave birth to a baby girl and not longer after she was taken by CPS due to b/m's addiction. We are coming up on her rights being permanently terminated (mid oct). My wife and I are pursuing our nieces adoption (home study sat.) and have many concerns and a lot of hope.

Specifically, we have been told by the b/m that we are to raise her as aunt/uncle only and that we should correct her if she ever addresses us as mom or dad. Also, in the event that she cleans up, we are to smile as we return her daughter. This is obviously a concern to us and we are worried that this is really just the tip of the iceberg. Are we naive to think that this could actually work out? How much worse is this going to get? Will it ever get better? What kind of boundaries can/need to be set? Are we wrong for eliminating the b/m's contact if she isn't clean?

[sugarbabysmommy]

Hum, many thoughts going through my head. Let me just start with something simple- where is the baby now? Is your SIL able to appoint a gaurdian, and not have her rights terminated? I'm surprised her rights will be terminated in under a year, is she not working with CPS on following a reunification plan?

There is more here to talk about, but many of the answers can only come from you and your wife- could you raise this child as uncle and aunt? And, if her rights are terminated, does your SIL understand getting clean doesn't mean she gets her parental rights back- ever! It's far from that simple. If you chose to retrun the child once you become the legal parents, you would need to sign away your parental rights to the child and your SIL would then have to be homestudied and apply for adoption of her child. That's why I ask about gaurdianship.

Someone needs to explain what lossing her rights means- and don't just rely on the caseworker to do that.

[mackgreen]

Thanks for the quick reply. Where to start.

The court had given her a limited amout of time to maintain her visits and sobriety. She has done neither and that time is about to run out.

My wife and I are completely unwilling to raise her as aunt and uncle.

I guess the real question is how do we establish those boundaries with the baby? I can not expect the b/m to respect the boundaries that we set, but we do not want to hide the b/m from our nieces life. I am worried about how we address the b/m within our household and how much say that the child will have in her realtionship with her b/m.

I am confident that we can get the meaning of terminating her rights across to the b/m. Under no circumstances would we ever even contemplate returning the child and that needs to be very clear to the b/m. I just worry about the long term impact of this difficult relationship on our adopted daughter.

[leaabc123]

Well, once TPR occurs, she is no longer the legal parent. Whether it happens voluntarily or not, is up to her.

I am assuming that you have had custody all of this time?

No one can say whether she will get better or not. That is entirely her choice.

I think you should be honest with her as to your feelings regarding who her parents will be. Also, you will need to set boundaries if visits will occur.

Some of these could be: Visits have to be set up ahead of time. Cancellations should be made within a timely manner.
Where visits will occur.
No strangers at visits.
Will visits ever be unsupervised.
What happens if mom shows up drunk or high for a visit?

If mom chooses no to get clean, it is perfectly reasonable to limit contact to photos and letters for a period of time. As the child gets older, you will need to explain things in an age appropriate manner. Kids are resiliant and understand more than we think.

[Lynard1210]

Hi there. I was having troubles posting here so I sent you a private message.

Lynn, Illinois closed adoptee
11 yr old son
8 mo. old daughter (adopted 6/24/05)

"Instead of looking for an example, be one"

[Chicken8182]

Hello my husband and I began fostering my niece when she was about a yr and a half old, we have since adopted her. In the beginning because of her age we kept it as an aunt and uncle basis and bc we werent sure of how long she would be with us,eventually after a couple months on her own she began calling us mom and dad. A little back story my sis in law is a drug addict and an alcoholic at age 22 this was not the first cps placement and currently she is in jail. Just like your sister? my sis in law didn't comply with visitations and parenting and drug alcohol programs so it went to tpr. once the tpr is in effect the bio parent has no say in how you raise the child. They way my husband and I approach it is my daughter calls us mom and dad, she doesn't have any contact w/ my sister in law because of her behavior and the fact that my daughter is deathly afraid of her( sup.visit gone wrong), and at no time no matter what she does will we ever give her up. If you have to get a no contact order/restraining order we have one. I can't say that not having my sis in law in our lives is badly affecting any of us, my daughter doesn't even remember her hardly. All I can do is be open and honest when the time is right. Any contact with my sis in law will have to be up to my daughter as she grows, bc honestly I don't see my sis in law getting clean anytime soon. I wish you lots of luck and prayers

[sugarbabysmommy]

Involuntary relative adoptions have got be so complicated for the adults to sort. Before this goes any further you must sit down and explain very simply, what your adopting means- you will legally and emotionally become mom and dad, you are not taking care of her child temporarily, and whatever you agree to regarding contact, stick to it. Put your contact agreement on paper, not just verbally (I can't stress that enough), contact examples a previous poster gave. There are others better versed than me in open relationships (which is what you will have) with drug dependent persons (I'm including alcohol when I say drug, I'm not assuming any certain drug). A few other issues to consider and to address now, how other family will treat you all, will they call you aunt and uncle? You need to lay it all out for other family as well, your adoption is not happening in a bubble. Will you see your SIL at family functions? How will that fit into any contact agreement you make, if you do make one?

"I am worried about how we address the b/m within our household and how much say that the child will have in her realtionship with her b/m."

I wanted to address this, I'm kind'a confused. Do you mean by what name you will refer to your SIL, by her first name, by mom? Or do you mean how you will explain her relationship to your future daughter? And I'm not sure how to address your question about how much say the child will have in her relationship with her biological mother. You mentioned boundaries for the child, can you explain this further? I'm not trying to be a pain, but it might help to talk some of these feelings/thoughts out.

There is a great website that I seem to recommend all the time, but there's a good reason, it's got great info: Pactadopt.org

[Chicken8182]

I don't know your relationship with your sis/sil , but I guess what you kinda really need to figure out is what type of relationship you really want to have with her. for instance it's a little easier for my husband and I because basically our entire family has kind of washed their hands of her. I know that sounds harsh but every time we let her back in she screws up again. She gave birth to three children before the age of 22 I have #1 who is almost 5 now, her ex boyfriend who really isn't even the father has #2 and she just delivered #3 in jail and signed him over to her mother. You need to think very carefully about what is best for this child, not the bmom. Drug addiction is just so strong, i know there are people who want to quit but they just cant, and as long as they continue the drug use it just get's worse and worse beleive me my sil started smoking pot at age 11 and at age 22 she is severely addicted to crack cocaine and heroine and now that she's incarcerated she is using comecary money to buy prescription meds off of other inmates it never ends unless they really really want it to , and if losing your child is not enough reason to quit i don't know what is. Hell my sil lost 3 kids and still doesn't get it. I hope you consider this bc that baby really needs you, you sound like wonderful people and I know how hard it is when relatives are involved but it's worth the pain and suffering to give that baby a stable loving home. What state do you live in by the way? I live in Indiana and I don't know how it works everywhere but when we went to tpr i was told by the judge that he strongly discouraged visitation afterward he also granted a no contact order. In regards to what the child will address bmom as my daughter rarely speaks of her but when she sees a pic or something she calls her by her first name and knows that that is daddy's and uncle d's sister. If you have a hard time w other family members just sit them down and explain your reasoning for your choices if they still disagree just give it time and they'll come around in the mean time agree to disagree, but stand your ground don't give in to family pressures if it means putting your child at risk. good luck if you have any questions feel free to ask.

[mackgreen]

I want to thank everyone for their suggestions and comments. My wife and I really need all of the support that we can get.

To clarify a little. I am not all that concerned right now about my SIL. I know that there are problems waiting to be resolved, but that is far from my primary concern. I am more concerned about when and how to begin defining that relationship for our daughter. I think that she needs to understand that there is something different about her relationship with her b/m very early on, I am just struggling with how to start that process. My wife and I have discussed calling her "aunt mommy" or something like that.

We live in Texas and our niece is currently in foster care. We decided not to take her until the TPR because we could not bear having her taken from us.

Thanks for the visitation guidelines, we really had not given it that much thought. We do live close enough (3 hrs away) that visitation could occur regularly but I am not sure how often we would be comfortable with. Knowing how little my SIL visits her while she is in the same general area gives me an indication of how often she will visit over a much greater distance.

Once again, my concerns are really about just making sure that we are doing whats best for our niece/daughter. We already have 2 boys and it just feels like there are so many more opportunities to screw this up than there were with them.

Again, thanks for your time and support.

[Lynard1210]

mackgreen,

Regarding the issues you are struggling with, maybe a good adoption counselor could help you sort these out. Please don't think you are going to screw this up. As long as you love her like you do your other two sons, it will all work out. Honesty is good, but sometimes timing is everything. Your niece's natural curiosity will unfold over time and those will be good times for discussions about her adoption/birthmother, etc. Trust yourself to say the most helpful thing at the right time.
I really don't think you are going to screw this up as long as you love your niece and protect her like you do your other children.

[wlbjp]

Your story sounds similar to ours. CPS took my husband's niece when she was 18 mos old. We were expecting this - just didn't know exactly when it would happen. We did go ahead and take custody of her prior to the parental termination, even though our feelings over the whole thing hadn't been straightened out yet. B/M is also an addict, and completely blew off her end of the bargain in the reunification process. However, the few times she did make contact, it was with the expectation (in her mind, of course) that our niece was still her daughter, and that the situation was not permanent. She even called a few months ago (18 months later) saying it was her intent to get her daughter back. Thank goodness my husband talked to her - I would have either laughed hysterically or said something innappropriate. But that's how they think. It's like the time that has passed is nothing - they expect everything to be just the same as it is before, no matter what they have or haven't done.

Almost two years have passed, and we decided to sit back and let her pretty much "hang herself." We didn't have to do a thing. She didn't comply with the drug counseling and parenting classes, didn't show up regularly for visitations, etc. All the while, my husband remained cordial to her and I avoided her, since I have very negative feelings for her that I have a hard time hiding. Our niece called us mommy and daddy on her own, and we decided not to make it an issue. My grandmother was a foster mother to many children, and said they all called her "mom" on their own, even on a temporary basis, and that it is not a big issue.

As far as visitation - as long as it is a CPS case, let the authorities work it out. Do not allow visits outside what the court allows. Blame them, if you need to (when dealing with the B/M) and let them be the bad guys - they won't mind. In fact, you may even want to have the visitations at the CPS office (or maybe you already do that), to maintain even more of a "neutral" ground. When we were tired of dealing with the visitation problems, we decided to have the visits at CPS, and the mother never visited again. I know this may seem mean-spirited, but we suspected all along that she would not follow through on what was necessary to get her daughter back- and we were right. It was even a more convenient location for her - but getting there on time and being accountable to somebody "official" was just too much. Also, we have decided that if in the future we ever have to deal with her, we will insist that it not be at our house. However, I kind of doubt we'll be seeing her for awhile, especially since she still has drug warrants and we have heard she is pregnant again.

Also - another comment on the "mommy and daddy" thing. She can have more than one mom and dad. Our niece (adoption will be final in 2 months) is now 3. She knows we are her mommy and daddy, and that she also has a "tummy" mommy where she grew, and that daddy's brother is her first daddy. Because we have discussed it from the very beginning, it is normal to her - kids are a lot more understanding (especially from the beginning) than you might expect.

Lastly, we also have 2 boys - they are teenagers now. We have a regular Monday night babysitter for our niece, and every Monday night either my husband and I, or us and the boys, go out for dinner kind of like a "date night." There are sooooo many changes she will bring to your household, but just like parents need to get away from their kids every once in a while, the boys may need a break from her too. Our niece LOVES her babysitter, so it's a special night for her also. It has really helped us keep our sanity.

Sorry, I type a lot! Good luck!

[alwaysus]

We have adopted 2 boys that my sister in law gave birth to. ( one adoption is pending~ Should be done this month!)
Family adoptions are very hard. But they can work out. Right now our sons birth mother is in prison. She will be till the youngest is about 6 years old. The elder of the two will be 11 or there abouts.
While she was out of prison, she had regular contact. In our home, supervised only. As soon as she had a positive drug test, all visits were cancelled. I don't care who gave birth to them, I will not allow someone hooted up on meth near my kids.
Now that she is incarcerated, we send pics every week and write letters. To be honest ( sorry if I offend) Sometimes I wish she would go away. She is such a strain on our family. We love her, but hate her addiction.
We have been honest with the boys about their adoption ( the youngest is only 3.5 months old, he doesn't understand yet) We never hid the adoption facts. Our son calls his birth mom Aunt T. She is my husbands sister so legally speaking she is his Aunt. My bio kids all call her Aunt T, so it stands to reason that they will as well. Just set your boundries and be firm but loving.
I agree 100% about not wanting to be Aunt/Uncle. We were unwilling to do that as well. At first she expected us to" Give Paul back to her" When she got out of prison the first time ( He was almost 3 when she got out) She finally realized that was unfair to Paul.The adoption was final when he was almost 2.Paul was 6 days old when he came to live with us. We picked up Elijah when he was 2 days old.
Good Luck!