[HAIR127]

Hi Everyone...I can relate to ALL of you! I am A.C.0.A. Adult Child Of A Alcoholic. I grew up very Codependant and took care of everyone else....except myself!! Now through theropy...I have learned to be good to me and to take care of me first.Then lend a hand....but dont jump into every fire I see! ACOA's are attracted to choas....thats where I grew up!So when we see a red light....which is red flags to others...meaning STOP...to a unrecovered ACOA...it means GOOOOOOOO!! I put myself in some real dandy situations!! Now..life is better and Im happier since recovery. But....because of my adoptee issues...I still think everyone is going to leave me!!! And Yes I love the Book on... The Language of Letting Go! Janet

[clara]

Janet,

Trust is always hard - especially when one has lived with alcoholism.

I find that considering how others might feel were I to leave helps with that fear of being abandoned: life is a two way street: it is about hello and goodbye, about appearances and disappearances. learning to accept that there are only two contancies in life: one is dying, the other is everything is always in a state of flux: this is the very essence of nature: just as something becomes, it evolves into something else.


Have been caught at several such traffic lights where red flags had me charging full speed: only to be blamed at the end in some shape or form.

Learning to embrace change, even when we don't really know what do do with it.. !!!!!!

ciao

I have spoken with many birthmothers who were "people pleasers" before placing for adoption or became "people pleasers" after placing for adoption. I am learning to please myself.

[LIR - NFL]

I dont feel placing a child has anything to do with being a people pleaser. I find it weird that some say they placed child to please their parents. Or they placed child because they listened to what their parents told them. I know when I had sex and got pregnant I was not thinking about pleasing my parents I was pleasing myself and my boyfriend. My parents told me to wait to have sex so I wasnt listening to them either.

Ive read chats where adoptees say theyre people pleasers because they were adopted. Why do people make up all these reasons? Most of us are the way we are and did the best we could for our child and ourselves in a hard situation.

I am very happy to hear that some birthmothers feel happy with the hard choice they made. I am not one of them. I am happy very happy that my daughter has a great relationship with her mother and father. Our families are working towards friendship - what could be better?

Instead of asking why people make up all these reasons it might be a good idea to accept that not everyone case is clear cut - some people really did not want to take the adoption road.

Take care
M

[clara]

people pleasing is in the nature of victimisation. It comes with believing one is not worth much: someting akin to an abused child doing everything they can to curry the favour of the abusing parent.

Why we choose what we choose is much of a mystery and it takes courage and guts to face oneself honestly in the mirror and admit as a woman that an adoption choice might have been motivated by a desire to protect her own sexual needs and desires above the child: it is not a crime; it is human nature.
Coercion here of course, not being the point...

Whatever a person's circumstance or reason for choosing their life's path, it remains the hardest thing of all for the victim mindset to let go; assume responsibility and regain or obtain enough self-esteem to warrant a measure of self-pleasing.


"Every human life has a secret essence, it's a secret even to the possessor, because you don't know what to do with it."

Saul Bellow

A great essay to read is "My Trauma Is Bigger Than Yours": The Game Nobody Wins, written by Marie Anne Cohen

affectionately as always,

[Jackiejdajda]

LIR - NFL wrote

>Why do people make up all these reasons? Most of us are the way we are and did the best we could for our child and ourselves in a hard situation.

If I say "I did it.. its all on me" I am not learning why.. I am not learning about why I gave my son up..
"How could you do that?" my husband asked..

Some of us grew up in a dysfunctional family.. A family that kept secrets from anyone outside of that family.
"Don't tell about your dads drinking".. or "Don't tell about the awful fights."
Anything to stop the fights.. Anything to see someone happy and a bit tipsy..

No tools were given.. No ways were taught on how to survive in the world.. No independence given.. None of that..

Jackie

[clara]

So very true: we were taught appearances were everything.

And no acknowledgement of the person inside: self-reliance has nothing to do with being your own person.

Marieh - wholly agree it is not so much why people make up reasons: life is not clear cut, but acceptance difference is as hard as accepting that change is a natural constant

best
Renée

[LIR - NFL]

marieh, I did not say I was "happy with the hard choice I made". It wasnt even a choice, but the only thing to do. I would have been alone with a baby. That would not have been the best life for my girl or me.
I didnt "want to take the adoption road", no more than I wanted to get pregnant when I couldnt take care of a baby. I dont think anyone chooses those things. My parents did not want to raise another baby and I never felt they owed me that. I felt I owed my girl to give her the best life possible. Most of the girls with me at the home thought the same. It actually is clear cut many times. If we cant take care of our child adoption is a way to get care. If we dont want to "take the adoption road" and we are able to take care of child than fine. To me it was all about my girl and how to give her a good life, not about giving myself excuses.
clara, "Whatever a person's circumstance or reason for choosing their life's path, it remains the hardest thing of all for the victim mindset to let go; assume responsibility"
I like how you worded that,it seems very true here. I never knew so many bthmothers blame everyone else for what happened till I saw these chats. When I was in the home all of us were mad at ourselves for being stupid that we got ourselves into being pregnant or mad at boyfriend that didnt help. The only one that would be a victim would be a poor girl that is raped.
Jackiejdajda, "I am not learning about why I gave my son up.." I knew why I gave my girl up, so she could have a life I couldnt give her. The only thing I asked myself many times is how could I have been so careless in the first place. I knew better than to have done that. I did learn, I never was careless with sex again. I see so many making up all kinds of reasons and excuses. To me its better to accept what happened. I can admit I made a mistake and then did the best I could.

LIR-NFL

My comments were not directed at you specifically, I had not addressed you directly. I apologize for making my post sound as though it was meant for you only. It’s not the first time some one has made reference to birthmothers being mal content with their choice. I do tend to view these posts from the older/closed adoption birthmother point of view.

My point is most older birth mothers had no choice between open and closed adoption. In some countries closed adoption is/was the only adoption offered. Mothers from closed adoption countries or era (being the only adoption available) were not counseled pre or post adoption. This lack of counseling has lead to many emotions unrecognized, the (usually very young) mother was expected to ignore her feelings and continue life as normal. She would have believed the adults acting in her best interest, who told her that she would be fine, she could get on with her life, and the baby would have a better life with financially settled two parent family.

The reality is quite different from that expected. The loss and longing was never acknowledged. The mother had to pretend that all was well in her world. Her family and friends, if they knew of the pregnancy (in some countries girls were sent away so as not to shock the community or save the girls reputation), never discussed her pain. These young mothers were not prepared to feel so much loving attachment to the relinquished baby. They had been told over and over that all would be well and yet they felt a huge void that could not be filled. This is one reason why some birthmothers repeated the experience in the vain unconscious hope of changing the past. I was advised to see and hold my baby so that I did not end up back at the mother and baby home within the year, waiting a second birth. This advise was given in the most matter of fact way.

We can accept our responsibility in pregnancy (excluding pregnancy from violent acts). Some of us can not deny the good life our relinquished children have. Who is to say that given some time we would not have been able to give our babies all the nurturing and care needed to develop as productive members of society?
I don’t think I can accept responsibility for the deep physiological pain brought about by my closed adoption when the adults around me knew (data has been collated since before 1954 concerning the lasting emotional effect to the birth mother) that adoption caused trauma to the birthmother (and in some cases the infant).
I am not denying that the baby must always come first, but pre adoption counseling could help prepare birthmothers for the physiological shock of loss and grief which they do not expect to hit them with such force. Perhaps preparing birthmothers and enforcing contact contracts would help to eliminate some of the blaming.

wishing you well
M

[clara]

Hi Amanda,

I think it's a little confusing for most to establish a clear line that separates perenial self-absorption and self-victimisation with expressions of genuine sadness and grieving: sadness and disenfranchised grief leads to a myriad of symptoms that can years to identify and a lifetime to deal with: this said, I think, re-reading your posts on this thread, your reference to the making of of reasons and responsibilities for actions as opposed to assuming responsibility for one's choices: you have been specifically referring to those on this forum who persistantly protect their right to a trauma bigger than anyone elses.

It reminds me of conversations my aunts and gran would have and often times you will hear people having that kind of chat about comparing illnesses; troublesome families - these chats tend to become an embroiled competition as to who had or has a worse time of it.

I would like to quote from Mary Anne Cohen's article and hope it encourages some healthy debate about perceptions and attitudes - after all, proselatising to the converted doesn't really achieve much, and at times discussions on these threads are in danger of doing just that: I'm not accusing anyone posting here - it is simply an observation and taking the nature of discussion into account - this hopefully will provide food for thought.

"My trauma is bigger than yours" becomes the rallying cry of a sort of hierarchy of misery in some reform groups. Even those with the best and happiest of reunions are careful to insist that NOTHING takes away the pain, and focus stays on what is lost, rather than what has been regained. There is a lot of talk about healing and empowering, but the heroes in these circles are those who have assumed the eternally damaged suffering victim persona as their main identity and let nothing interfere with that. I believe that the climate in these groups, while intending the opposite, actually works against healing, and keeps birthmothers in a cycle of self-absorption and victimhood. Much as we need to comfort and sympathise with the traumatised, we also need to look at the ways others have truly healed from trauma, or found coping strategies that allowed them to live joy-filled lives, in spite of it."


Love to hear your take on this one Marieh?....

Thanks Amanda,
Renée

[colin]

One Councelling student to the other: "Shadup, I'm more empathetic than you are."

[Jackiejdajda]

LIR - NFL posted.
>I knew why I gave my girl up, so she could have a life I couldnt give her.

But there is always the question of "Was it a good life?"

What if there was abuse?

Can you or anyone stand in the face of that?

That question is what started me in my search of the 'why of it'.
Was I given any help? Was I allowed to see my son and hold my son?
Was there a conspiracy involved here?
Did someone decide that it was best I give my son up?

Did someone decide that single women should not get welfare or any kind of help?

Do I stand in this alone?

*Do I take on all responsibility if my son had of been abused.*

That is what I question.

Jackie

[clara]

Jackie,
Has time and experience brought you closer to any answers?

Respectfully

Renée

[leedean]

Originally posted by Jackiejdajda
AnaAmy wrote.
>Does the hurt and longing to belong ever end?

I believe some of us get separated from each other..The hurt and the longing happens on both sides.. (some that is)..

A codapendent woman does what she is told to do and gives her child away. Its about control.. People deciding to control the other person in order to please someone else.. And no one really sees what is happening..

>They are playing a game.
>They are playing at not playing a game.
>If I show them I see they are,
>I shall break the rules and they will punish me.
>I must play their game, of not seeing I see the game.
>R D Laing - Knots


I am the child of alcoholics.. Two of them.. I was a codapendent when I was six.. I was terrified that I would be put out so I did what I was told.. I kept the peace in the family.

I also lived a chaotic life.. I also got pregnant at the wrong time.

I felt deserted when I was a child and I deserted my son..

I did to him what was done to me..

Jackie

Beautiful! Absolutely Beautiful...Is it any wonder that we are destined to repeat ourselves? Of course we are... we didn't have a choice. Hugs.