[Missy M]

As Sharon said in Mom2 Alex's thread, its time Brenda and I moved over so here goes: For some reason the implication that I shoulda / coulda played a role in my placed daughter's life has really unnerved me. It has produced feelings of guilt, (did I cause her to suffer by not stepping up??) bewilderment (is that why God placed her so close to me?) anger (then why did the agency insist on secrecy??) shame ( was I so consummed with my own feelings and needs that I overlooked hers???) and other emotions that I can't even name. I feel that I was handed a wonderful opportunity, one that Sharon and others like her pray for, and I failed to take full advantage of it and possibly emotionally harmed the very thing I stayed away to protect. Its as if in getting the water hose to put out the house fire you drown everyone instead.
My inner voice tells me that I did the best I could do but now I have these nagging doubts. I denied myself in order to give her what I felt she needed and now I am hearing that perhaps in doing so, I failed her....This stinks....Missy M

[Sharon]

Missy, I don't remember how old Tovia is, but I know she's a grown woman, so I assume your adoption took place quite some time ago. My understanding is that before the late 80s/ early 90s, open adoption was not even an option to consider. When I placed my son in '90, the agency went on and on about how closed adoption was a thing of the past, how secrecy was harmful to everyone and how semi-open adoption was so much healthier (fully open adoption was still not universally recommended or available at that time). Well, I didn't take much convincing; it seemed logical to me that openness was the way to go. I wanted to do what was best for my child, and I embraced the idea early on in my pregnancy that openness was best.

I know you wanted to do the right thing for Tovia too, and at the time you placed, the party-line was probably totally different; correct me if I'm wrong, but you were probably told that it was best for Tovia if you left her alone and allowed her to bond with her new parents, to be raised as "normally" (ie. as much like an unadopted child) as possible. It was simply not acknowledged until recently that some adoptees have needs that kids raised in their bio-families don't have, such as the need to know where they came from, who they look like, and their medical and biological history, etc.
You and I were both young teenagers when we placed our children. It is to be expected that as pregnant teenagers in a scary and unfamiliar situation, we listened to and believed the advice of the professionals, and of society. But what the professionals are advising NOW is very different from what they were advising 20 or 30 years ago. And what they advise in the future may be totally different as well. Expert opinion on what's best for children is always changing, it seems.
JMO, ~ Sharon

[Missy M]

Thanks Sharon....I got upset for a brief moment then shed a few (hundred) tears before reminding myself that I honestly did my best, I followed expert advice, I was 16 the day I placed her, and despite the fact that she's grown up to become a college educated, CPA at a very large law firm and she's an awesome mother, a talented musician, and drop dead gorgeous, she is also a raging lunatic who once broke my windshield on Mon and sent me a dozen roses on Tuesday, and gave no reason for either action....sounds well rounded and firmly grounded to me!!!
BTW: Tovia is 32 now, born 9-21-1971; and you are so right and so comforting. Thanks Sharon....Missy M

[bromanchik]

Originally posted by Missy M
For some reason the implication that I shoulda / coulda played a role in my placed daughter's life has really unnerved me. It has produced feelings of guilt, (did I cause her to suffer by not stepping up??) bewilderment (is that why God placed her so close to me?) anger (then why did the agency insist on secrecy??) shame ( was I so consummed with my own feelings and needs that I overlooked hers???) and other emotions that I can't even name. I feel that I was handed a wonderful opportunity, one that Sharon and others like her pray for, and I failed to take full advantage of it and possibly emotionally harmed the very thing I stayed away to protect. Its as if in getting the water hose to put out the house fire you drown everyone instead.
My inner voice tells me that I did the best I could do but now I have these nagging doubts. I denied myself in order to give her what I felt she needed and now I am hearing that perhaps in doing so, I failed her....This stinks....Missy M

Missy, I was never talking about your personal situation. How much choice did you personally have? How much poor guidence did you get from the agency? My posts have never been about you personally. I am sorry they were personally taken.

One of the reasons things are being done differently now is that there is more information out there and people are speaking up as to what they need. When I talked about intangible needs I am talking about emotional ones. The need to know you are loved by those you are connected to, no matter who you are in the adoption triad. And I stand by what I said about birthparents not being replaced by adoptive parents. It also goes both ways. I can no more replace my son's adoptive mother than she can replace me. We both have very different roles in his life. I think some of the confusion is about what the birthparent's role should be. Everyone knows what a parent does. But what does a birthparent do? I believe kids do best when they are allowed to have loving relationships with their birthparents. The beauty of continued, loving contact is that the child grows up being able to talk about all the issues adopted kids face ("Why didn't she keep me?" " Does she love me?""Who do I look like?" "Where did I get X talent?") with the source. Most importantly they hopefully never have to ask themselves " Does she love me?". It will be something they take for granted.

You did not have this opportunity with Tovia. (For a variety of reasons, including the adoptive family not being educated about openness.) It is not something to punish yourself for.

[LegallyKim]

[i] Everyone knows what a parent does. But what does a birthparent do? I believe kids do best when they are allowed to have loving relationships with their birthparents. The beauty of continued, loving contact is that the child grows up being able to talk about all the issues adopted kids face ("Why didn't she keep me?" " Does she love me?""Who do I look like?" "Where did I get X talent?") with the source. Most importantly they hopefully never have to ask themselves " Does she love me?". It will be something they take for granted.
[/b]

I do agree that the ideal situation would be that the birthmom is available to answer all those questions, to assure the child that she loves him/her. I love the idea of open adoption and wish it had been available to me. What I disagree with is the term "need". Will my child be less of a person in anyway because I was not able to be in his life and reassure him that I love him. I don't think so. For one thing, his MOTHER never spoke ill of me, always supported him and let him know that if he ever wanted to contact she would help him, which she has, and she gave him all the love that I would have given him. Will it fill in a hole for him, probably. Will it change his life significantly, probably not. What I am saying is, most children have a desire to know, but a need? To me that implies that birthmoms are letting their children down somehow and I have a problem with that. We do what we think is best for our children and that is the best we can do.

[Wingless]

Originally posted by LegallyKim

What I disagree with is the term "need".

To me that implies that birthmoms are letting their children down somehow and I have a problem with that. We do what we think is best for our children and that is the best we can do.

LegallyKim,

EXACTLY! There isn't a single situation that anyone of us is in that will mirror exactly to another. We all do what we are able to do at that time. We cannot walk around punishing ourselves for any of the decisions that are made, at the time they are made - it is the right answer.

I am walking into the role of 'birth mom' very soon. I can honestly say, I don't know what that will mean for me, my current family (I have four children), or the adoptive couple. I know in my heart, without a shadow of doubt, this is best for all of us. I am grateful for openness. It has made me very proud of who I am - as backwards as that can be. But it doesn't mean I know the answers to what the next 10; 20; 30; 50 years will hold.

The adoptive couple has included myself, and my entire family into their lives and hearts. I love them dearly too. We have had entire day outings with my four children and their three nieces and nephew. We are all getting together this weekend to throw the mom-to-be a baby shower. I can't wait to meet their extended families and give them the glimpse at this wonderful new life they all already love. We have a photo album of pictures and emails and thoughts, all to document this journey for the child. And I still freeze when I think about what he/she will think of all of this. Will there be pain seeing a huge group of happy faces - knowing from only a few weeks I had no intention of parenting him?

We have the most open relationship of anyone I have ever heard of. But I do not want the role of mother. The aparents have been for me, this child's parents from 11 weeks on. I believe whatever needs there are, he already has them fulfilled. To say he will "need" me in his life, I don't believe.

Whenever, where ever, we are when we as women are faced with this life choice - there are one of three choices. We can parent, we can abort or we can place our child to be someone else's child. The reality is - each of these choices is final. I sat in the clinic, my husband at my side, debating if the quick way was the answer. There was a window of opportunity to change my mind. As they called my name - I did. Had I not, there is no turning back. You can't undo forever. When we both agreed that this life was meant for someone else, it was just as if my name was called and I had walked through the door. This choice is forever.

If contact were to end tomorrow, I still have the peace of heart to know I made the right decision. If there is a knock at the door 30 years from now, I still will hold my head high. If I have the start of a new life long friendship, then I gain too. But until I can find that crystal ball that can show me every detail of every decision I have ever made, I live my life knowing I did my best. And no one can take that away from me.

[bromanchik]

Originally posted by Wingless
\I believe whatever needs there are, he already has them fulfilled. To say he will "need" me in his life, I don't believe.

I have based my beliefs on the 15 plus years i have worked with adopted children and adults. They are the one's who have called it a need. They are the one's who have felt it. It is not me alone saying this. Read the postings from adopted people. They do have a need to know that the parents that gave them birth love them. Look into the eyes of children and adults who do not have that love. I prefer to avoid the pain and hurt. It may help you to believe that you can be replaced. That your child does not need your love. I have looked into one too many aching adoptee's eyes to believe that.

[dl]

Yes, please do read the postings from "adopted people". Read mine, read dpen6, read debsdone's, read Shoshana's, read Searching_03256. In fact, read the thread “Insight for Aparents from an Adoptee”. Insight for Aparents from an Adoptee You will read that not ALL adoptees have this "need". For many of us, our parents were NOT "replacement parents" but very simply our loving parents. I was always aware that I had biological parents but my needs were indeed met by my parents.

Do SOME adoptees feel this "need" ? Obviously. I also know a few people that grew up with their biological family but never felt connected to them and do not feel that they were loved. In fact, I was talking to one man recently that was raised with his bioparents and five brothers and sisters and he said there were times in his life that he wondered if he was adopted because he felt so disconnected. (There's no doubt ~ he was NOT adopted.)

I volunteer at the Rescue Mission and wish I could avoid the pain and hurt when I look into the eyes of many of the homeless, needy, hungry little children that, while being "loved" by their biological parents, have so many needs unmet.

As you said Wingless "There isn't a single situation that anyone of us is in that will mirror exactly to another." I agree with this and object to blanket statements that portray what one adoptee may "need" as being what ALL adoptees "need".

[AMom2Two]

"As you said Wingless "There isn't a single situation that anyone of us is in that will mirror exactly to another." I agree with this and object to blanket statements that portray what one adoptee may "need" as being what ALL adoptees "need"."

I agree with wingless and Dlouis. I am not adoptee but I have never had a connection with my mother. While she meet all my physical needs, there was not that soul to soul connection you would expect to find with a mother and her child. At times, I also wondered if I was adopted. I do not look to her now to fill my needs and I do not blame her because of her lack to connect with me. That is the way life is sometimes.

As for adoptee's, I have three close friends of mine that were adopted as infants. We have had many discussions about the possiblity of them searching to find their bparents but none of them feel the need to. They all grew up in loving homes. They feel that their bparents did the very best they could for them and they are thankful that they were placed into loving homes. They get very upset with me when I even suggest they should search. They feel their life is great and they have no desire to change the way things God has intended. This individuals are highly accomplished. When we discuss my daughters open adoption, they are the first one's to remind me that they grew up in the closed era. They are very quick to point out to me that they would not want to have had two sets of Mothers and Fathers around them. They wanted and enjoyed a normal life. They feel our situation is just too weird for them and they fear that I am creating a situation in which my daughter will feel torn.

So when you talk about a NEED for adoptee's to know their bparents, again, I have to agree with the others, this is not a need for everyone.

I also think it is wrong to try to put any type of guilt on bparents. All the bparents I have meet here, placed their children to give them the best life possible. I think it is cruel to turn around and say that they have needs that you, the bparent let down.

bromanchik
...you wrote to MissyM."You did not have this opportunity with Tovia. (For a variety of reasons, including the adoptive family not being educated about openness.) It is not something to punish yourself for. "

I take offense that you talk about the adoptive family back at the time MissyM placed not being educated about openess. As many others have pointed out, that was not an option back then. Why would you say they were uneducated about it? They never had a choice as did MissyM? It appears you blame the aparents for not being educated? How can you blame aparents for this when IT WAS NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME?

Also, in taking it a step further what you are implying is that those bparents and aparents today, who do not wish to have an open adoption, are letting their children down. I find fault in anyone making blanket statements and trying to lay guilt on two parties that are trying to do the very best they can for their children. I guess, according to your statements, all those children that are adopted internationally will have unmeet needs. I just can't buy into that. Sorry!

[bromanchik]

Originally posted by dlouis
Do SOME adoptees feel this "need" ? Obviously. I also know a few people that grew up with their biological family but never felt connected to them and do not feel that they were loved. In fact, I was talking to one man recently that was raised with his bioparents and five brothers and sisters and he said there were times in his life that he wondered if he was adopted because he felt so disconnected. (There's no doubt ~ he was NOT adopted.)
[/i]

My question is why go for the lowest common denominator? When you place a child you do not know if they will feel this need. Why not provide that love as if they do? I would rather give too much love than not enough. As far as not feeling connected.... what does that have to do with anything? There are plenty of cases of "black sheep" in both bio and adoptive families. Does that mean they don't need connection with their family? Of course they do. Whether or not they get it is another story.

[bromanchik]

Originally posted by AMom2Two
When we discuss my daughters open adoption, they are the first one's to remind me that they grew up in the closed era. They are very quick to point out to me that they would not want to have had two sets of Mothers and Fathers around them. They wanted and enjoyed a normal life. They feel our situation is just too weird for them and they fear that I am creating a situation in which my daughter will feel torn.

Than maybe they need to see what the research says. Kids are not conflicted unless birthparents or adoptive parents try and take each other's roles. Kids deal with and resolve issues in step-family situations all the time. I think it is even more complicated for kids with step-parents. Then you have two sets of parents that are actually parents. Birthparent do not have a parenting role. There is a lot less conflict.

Originally posted by AMom2Two
So when you talk about a NEED for adoptee's to know their bparents, again, I have to agree with the others, this is not a need for everyone.

This is true. But how do you determine, at birth, who is likely to have that need and who doesn't. My point is that the relationship should be nurtured. Why not have that love in the kid's life? If he needs it fine. If not. Fine.

In all the studies on open adoption not one child wanted less contact. I think that is saying something important.

Originally posted by AMom2Two
I also think it is wrong to try to put any type of guilt on bparents. All the bparents I have meet here, placed their children to give them the best life possible. I think it is cruel to turn around and say that they have needs that you, the bparent let down.

I think this is how you are interpreting it. For SOOOO long birthparents have been made to feel worthless. We were there to provide babies and then our usefulness was over. I see it as empowering to know that my son needs more than to just give him life. I think it is a good thing for birthparents to know their love is needed.

Originally posted by AMom2Two
bromanchik
...you wrote to MissyM."You did not have this opportunity with Tovia. (For a variety of reasons, including the adoptive family not being educated about openness.) It is not something to punish yourself for. "

I take offense that you talk about the adoptive family back at the time MissyM placed not being educated about openess. As many others have pointed out, that was not an option back then. Why would you say they were uneducated about it? They never had a choice as did MissyM? It appears you blame the aparents for not being educated? How can you blame aparents for this when IT WAS NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME?

Who said I was blaming the adoptive parents? The facts are they were not educated about openness. No doubt some of the "education" they got would horrify you. One a-mom friend of mine was told when she adopted her daughter 24 years ago that she didn't need any medical history...she could just use her own for the baby!!! I don't fault anyone for ignorance or poor education.

Originally posted by AMom2Two
Also, in taking it a step further what you are implying is that those bparents and aparents today, who do not wish to have an open adoption, are letting their children down. I find fault in anyone making blanket statements and trying to lay guilt on two parties that are trying to do the very best they can for their children. I guess, according to your statements, all those children that are adopted internationally will have unmeet needs. I just can't buy into that. Sorry!

They may not be. Then again they may find that their child has needs that are not being met. I cannot tell how many people I talk to who are opening up adoptions based on a child's needs. The only blanket statement i am making is that birthparents and adoptive parents cannot know at the time a child is born what their needs for connection with their birthfamily will be.

[Missy M]

Mom2 and Brenda have given me things to consider and I appreciate your insight. I know what the stats say about "open adoption" I have researched it well. Its a moot point however because 32 years ago closed is all they offered. As Tovia's mother I did what I thought would offer her the best chance at a good life. The fact that her placement landed her 2 doors away from me in no way meant that I should breech the terms of the original agreement and dispite the pain, longing and misery I felt, I kept that agreement and I never told anyone I was her mother.
One of the saddest posts to read is a post from a b-parent in an open adoption whose agreement has been breeched and who's adoption has been slammed shut by the other parents. I personally could never do that, especially to her and the people I entrusted to raise her. By the same token my then 16 year old morals would not let me breech our CLOSED agreement in response to any of my needs or even what might some day become HER need. As far as a child "needing" her b-parents please know that Tovia has a b-father too. He beat the f*^&% out of me through out my entire pregnancy. I had my jaw wired shut the night I had her. His behavior was a motivating factor in my placement of her; he PROMISED to kill us both and tried to on more than one occassion before she was born.
According to statistics she "needs" contact with him in order to thrive, and feel whole, healthy and happy. The state of Tx. however has given him a sentence that indicates all of society would be best served if he remains in a cage for the next 15-20 years.
My point is I didn't do anything with her based on statistics....I based her placement and my involvement on my love, instincts and feelings. Statistics are peoples opinions about other peoples actions. I didn't care what the "majority" said, felt or thought; I never have. There was no one else in my uterus but Tovia at the time and it was she and she alone that I considered.
There are some adoptee's who feel open is best and others who feel closed is best. When this thread started on the other thread it was because I replied to a post that stated 'Open was the ONLY way to go". I found that offensive and misleading. Never once did I reply that closed was best, only that it was ALSO an option. The responses I got made it seem as if I was "lauding" closed adoption. While openess has its advantages someone needs to be bold enough to state that closed adoption has worked for some too; not promote it, not sing its praises, just acknowledge it. I have never said nor will I ever advise anyone to go that route, but unlike what the pro-lifers do, I feel its wrong to tell anyone looking for advice that one method out of several is THE ONLY CHOICE; because thats misleading and the one thing a confused pregnant 15 year old does not need is confusing, conflicting misleading information....this I do know.
Thanks for your input...each of you>>>>Missy M

[Missy M]

Originally posted by LegallyKim
I do agree that the ideal situation would be that the birthmom is available to answer all those questions, to assure the child that she loves him/her. I love the idea of open adoption and wish it had been available to me. What I disagree with is the term "need". Will my child be less of a person in anyway because I was not able to be in his life and reassure him that I love him. I don't think so. For one thing, his MOTHER never spoke ill of me, always supported him and let him know that if he ever wanted to contact she would help him, which she has, and she gave him all the love that I would have given him. Will it fill in a hole for him, probably. Will it change his life significantly, probably not. What I am saying is, most children have a desire to know, but a need? To me that implies that birthmoms are letting their children down somehow and I have a problem with that. We do what we think is best for our children and that is the best we can do.

Kim and Wingless....your posts are beautiful (as are others here) and they spoke my inner thoughts which I sometimes have a difficult time conveying. Thank you for posting, and to my sis Shar...you ROCK!
ps>>>how do I clean out my pm box???Missy

[LegallyKim]

Missy M: I am always impressed with your posts as you have a very articulate way of conveying an opinion that some may not agree with but will consider because of the way you put things. And sorry, I laughed at the "Tovia was the only one in my uterus". That was a hilarious way to put it, whether you meant to be funny or not.

I just wanted to reiterate that it is the "blanket" statement that I have a problem with. I understand Brenda's viewpoint of "give them all the love you have and then if they need fine, if not fine." Some birthparents are just not able to do that, which may sound selfish to some, but some biological parents are not able to give love to the children they keep, and sometimes adoptive parents are not able to give the love that is needed. Some people just cannot do it for whatever reason. I would have loved to give my love to my son his whole life - it just wasn't an option due to closed adoption. For others, it may be the abusive significant other, emotional problems etc. EACH SITUATION IS DIFFERENT AND CONNOT BE BLANKETED.

[patrisha]

The research I've read is really just a compilation of feedback from adoptees that were basically happy, well adjusted adults with no major complaints about their adoptive family life growing up. However, their almost unanimous gripe was the way basic facts about their adoption and birth family were withheld from them like it had been some national security affecting covert operation.

As Brenda stated "how do you determine, at birth, who is likely to have that need and who doesn't." Since the answer to that question is obviously "it's not possible", IMHO it's wisest to err on the side of caution. I feel like everyone is still perceiving "open" and "closed" adoption arrangements as absolutes. There are many ways information can be provided and lines of communication can be kept open outside of first person visitation.

If a birth parent simply decides that they don't want to contribute on any level, then I'm more than just insinuating that I feel they are letting their children down. I feel their actions are no less selfish than the birth parent from the closed era that arbitrarily rejects contact from their adult adoptee just to avoid the embarassment or complications they feel it may cause today.

Trish