[dl]

bromanchik: "My question is why go for the lowest common denominator? When you place a child you do not know if they will feel this need. Why not provide that love as if they do? I would rather give too much love than not enough."

In no way would I call my closed adoption experience the "lowest common denominator". When one gives birth to a child, whether you place it or raise it, you do not know what their particular needs will be. My parents provided more than enough love. I don't think it's fair to insinuate to aparents that are in a closed adoption for whatever reason, or to counsel an expectant woman that may not want ongoing contact for whatever reason ~ that the result of this will be a child that is not connected and filled with hurt and pain. I personally feel this is misleading.

"As far as not feeling connected.... what does that have to do with anything? There are plenty of cases of "black sheep" in both bio and adoptive families. Does that mean they don't need connection with their family? Of course they do. Whether or not they get it is another story."

Perhaps I misinterpreted your previous posts. It seemed to me you were placing a lack of connection, pain and hurt on the lack of knowing love from bioparent. My point was one can be loved and raised with bioparent and feel a lack of connection, pain and hurt.

There are many situations where an open adoption is not an option. There are bioparents that do not want to have a connection. AMom2Two fought very hard to keep bioparents of her daughter involved and still has less contact than she wants. My point is, it is NOT INEVITABLE that a child will suffer a lack of connection, hurt and pain due to bioparents not being part of the child's life.

"For SOOOO long birthparents have been made to feel worthless. We were there to provide babies and then our usefulness was over."

I think this is how you are interpreting it. Personally, I don't believe anyone makes another feel a certain way. We are responsible for our own feelings. Could it be that some bioparents felt worthless because they were unable to parent the child they created? Unless one is a surrogate, they are not "there to provide babies" to another.

MissyM: "When this thread started on the other thread it was because I replied to a post that stated 'Open was the ONLY way to go". I found that offensive and misleading. Never once did I reply that closed was best, only that it was ALSO an option. . . . . While openness has its advantages someone needs to be bold enough to state that closed adoption has worked for some too; not promote it, not sing its praises, just acknowledge it. I have never said nor will I ever advise anyone to go that route, but unlike what the pro-lifers do, I feel its wrong to tell anyone looking for advice that one method out of several is THE ONLY CHOICE;"

I completely agree. People can share information so others can make an informed choice, but no one can say with absolute certainty ~ ~ you should do this or it will negatively affect the child. I'm not promoting closed but I don't feel it should be portrayed as doing something horrible to the child either.

(To clean out pm box ~ next to Date/Time sent is white box. Click on it and check will appear. At the bottom, click on delete and any message checked will delete. You can also delete messages by checking the delete box and clicking the delete button at the top of the message )

Patrisha is correct IMO ~ "There are many ways information can be provided and lines of communication can be kept open outside of first person visitation." It seems that some are claiming it's all about open vs. closed. There is semi-open available also.

LegallyKim: "EACH SITUATION IS DIFFERENT AND CANNOT BE BLANKETED." Exactly! This is true for most situations in life ~ adoption related or not.

As much as any parents (bio ~ raising their children or not, or adoptive) may want to feel that their love alone is responsible for determining the direction a child will take when an adult or how the child will ultimately feel, I don't feel that is accurate. Yes, it is a part ~ but ultimately there are so many other influences that we all face. I personally find it offensive that so many try to separate adoptees and make anything and everything about the fact that we joined our families by adoption and thus think, feel and act different than everyone else. Until I joined this forum I never even thought of myself as "an adoptee". If the topic came up my attitude was, "I was adopted" as in that is how I joined the family ~ past tense. It was not a self identifying factor at all. I think how aparents position adoption and how much they stress that it makes the child different is a critical factor. My parents did not deny adoption but they did not over stress it either. I'm grateful they had this wisdom.

I love AMom2Two's signature line. Please read it and remember that an adoptee has as much power as anyone else to say "This I am today: that I will be tomorrow......" No different than the future of a child is not predetermined at birth ~ an adopted child's future, IMO, is not predetermined at the time of adoption either.

[AMom2Two]

Originally posted by Missy M
My point is I didn't do anything with her based on statistics....I based her placement and my involvement on my love, instincts and feelings. Statistics are peoples opinions about other peoples actions. I didn't care what the "majority" said, felt or thought; I never have.

MissyM.... I wanted to thank you for that piece of advice. I have found comfort in it because I too am following my instincts.

As Dlouis has explained earlier I am in an open adoption that is no where near as open as I would like. I would like more involvment with her bparents, yet they choose to not be. Much to my dismay her bmom has dropped out of the picture and I can not find her. It has come to a point where I am forced to step away and let her be until she wants contacts with us, when and if she ever does.

To think that my daughters bmom disappearance will create an unmet need in my child worries me. I wanted open adoption so that she could grow up knowing who her bparents are. Despite my best efforts to keep contact, I can not chain her bmom to my doorstep and force her to stay involved. She has a life to live also. I have to respect her wishes and her choices.

I do not feel when and if she should contact me that I should tell her you are not meeting your daughters needs. I imagine she will laugh at this because she placed her daughter so that I CAN meet her needs. I am doing the very best I can but I can't control other people. My instincts tell me that I am doing all I can and my daughter will benefit from it. I have so much information and so many pictures that if my daughter's bmom walks away today and can not handle this open adoption, I feel my daughter could look to her with compassion and love and NOT look to her to fill some unmet need of her's.

One thing I feel my daughter's adoption agency did right was have her bmom fill out many questionnaires asking all kinds of questions that adoptee's might want to ask, from what is your favorite food to what is your whackiest behavior, to why did you place me. The pages are in depth and you can tell her bmom gave her answers alot of thought. Maybe with this information, her medical history, and all the family photo's I obtained of her biofamily, she will have any future needs answered.

Hopefully my daughters bmom will work thru her issue's and return to us but in the event she does not, I refuse to believe that I CAN NOT meet all her needs. I feel to say that is to let my daughter and her bmom down. JMHO

[Missy M]

"If a birth parent simply decides that they don't want to contribute on any level, then I'm more than just insinuating that I feel they are letting their children down. I feel their actions are no less selfish than the birth parent from the closed era that arbitrarily rejects contact from their adult adoptee just to avoid the embarassment or complications they feel it may cause today."
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How a birth parent could ever be accused of "not wanting to contribute on any level" is beyond me. Placement IS a contribution. I feel I gave out the waa-zu when it came to my child. I gave before I ever saw my child; I gave her a chance to have a lot more stability I was able to give her and that in and of itself was my contribution to her future and to her health and well-being.
Its not even that I feel your statement is untrue, {who knows maybe Tovia would have been Condoleeza Rice had I had an open adoption...} its that you are speaking of her feelings, feelings that she has yet to voice. You are pointing the finger of blame at women who simply do not deserve that from you or anyone. Regardless of the outcome I still say you have to base your decision for open or closed on what YOU feel is best for your child. It isn't about statistics; or it shouldn't be IMHO. Every adoption is different and no one can say whats right or what works for one will work for us all. There are no gaurentees, no formulas for success, nothing but human emotion and raw instinct; and the most open adoption can easily produce the most screwed -up child.
Years ago any woman who sought employment outside the home was accused of neglect; statitics pointed out that their kids would most likely feel abondoned, lost and go on and become everything from poor students to drug addicted criminals. Well guess what ... for every poor student you find whose Mom works outside the home there is also a 'A' student who's Mom works and a dropout crack head ex-student with a stay at home June Cleaver type Mom. When circumstances changed and women HAD to work it suddenly became"tolerable," then "acceptable," on to " normal " and now "fashionable" to have a career and kids. My point is why is it that it was OK for us in the 70's and before to agree to a closed adoption and really terrible for Moms today to do it? It seems that as long as it was the only option it was an acceptable option and that is hypocritical. Only Tovia can feel it and only God can judge it; but you do have the right to post it.