[janiej]

Cute -- yeah, yeah, yea, it's always the keyboard's fault.

She does that ALOT !! Won't admit that she's just too lazy to "recheck" . ( love ya)

Shoshana, I still smile when I think of your "store story". I think you are very lucky to have not one, but TWO wonderful mothers who love YOU !!

My son wrote Dear "Mom" in his first email to me after we met. I copied it, have it hanging above my computer. Like Pip, I never expected him to do that. He still does not call me that when his amom is around, and I certainly wouldn't expect him to. When I talk to him about them, I always refer to them as "your mom and dad". As they ARE his mom and dad.

My best friend grew up across the street from me. We called each other's mom's "mom" all the time. Did it mean I didn't consider my mom my "real" mom ? Never thought anything of it. I have always called my MIL "mom". Didn't make my mom feel any less my mom,as my husband called HER mom. Nor do I think anything of the term "real mom". I think it's dumb. Sorry, just my opinion, but any of you who have biological children AND adopted children, are one of them your "real" kids as opposed to the other ? I doubt it. They are just your "kids". All of them, right ????? And you love them all, because you made room in your heart to love them all.
So why can't anyone make room in their heart to love whomever they want, and call anyone they want, anything they want ??????
Does the "title" give you any more security in their love for you ?
One of the neatest things my son's mom said was " I trust his love for me, because I taught it to him". Again, how blessed were both my son and I that she was the one "chosen" to raise him in the closed adoption era ?
So much to be thankful for. And so thankful we are not stressed out over a "title".

[mom2justynsarah]

Originally Posted by janiej

She does that ALOT !! Won't admit that she's just too lazy to "recheck" . ( love ya)

Shoshana, I still smile when I think of your "store story". I think you are very lucky to have not one, but TWO wonderful mothers who love YOU !!

My son wrote Dear "Mom" in his first email to me after we met. I copied it, have it hanging above my computer. Like Pip, I never expected him to do that. He still does not call me that when his amom is around, and I certainly wouldn't expect him to. When I talk to him about them, I always refer to them as "your mom and dad". As they ARE his mom and dad.

My best friend grew up across the street from me. We called each other's mom's "mom" all the time. Did it mean I didn't consider my mom my "real" mom ? Never thought anything of it. I have always called my MIL "mom". Didn't make my mom feel any less my mom,as my husband called HER mom. Nor do I think anything of the term "real mom". I think it's dumb. Sorry, just my opinion, but any of you who have biological children AND adopted children, are one of them your "real" kids as opposed to the other ? I doubt it. They are just your "kids". All of them, right ????? And you love them all, because you made room in your heart to love them all.
So why can't anyone make room in their heart to love whomever they want, and call anyone they want, anything they want ??????
Does the "title" give you any more security in their love for you ?
One of the neatest things my son's mom said was " I trust his love for me, because I taught it to him". Again, how blessed were both my son and I that she was the one "chosen" to raise him in the closed adoption era ?
So much to be thankful for. And so thankful we are not stressed out over a "title".

I have two beautiful children. One is bio, the other is adopted. Of course, I can't tell them apart. We should all respect each other's feelings/viewpoints without being made to feel like we are morons.

I am most certainly NOT an idiot. I am sorry, but both my children have one mom. That mom is me. One of them has a birth mother. We talk about her all the time. But we refer to her as birth mama, or by her first name.

To me, "mom" is not just a title. Mom is the woman raising her children. Dee is not raising my children.

Smeone asked me how I would feel if my daughter wanted to call Dee "mom" in the future. I would not discourage her because I love my daughter. But, I certainly don't agree with it. That's all.

[marimari]

momtojustynsarah...you are not a moron nor an idiot...you are sensitive about your motherhood role and want it exclusively to belong to you, as you feel and believe that you are the one mother to your two children. I might very well feel as you do. I like that you refer to Dee as the birth mama...and that you are aware that the possibility exists that down the road your child may want to call her mom, too. To allow her the freedom to do so, even though you may not like it, will be important, so she doesn't ever feel like she has to choose one of you over the other as being important in her life. If she feels your pain over this, sees on your face or thru your actions, that you are uncomfortable, it may close her off from being open with you in other areas that are important to her.
Janie's post drew attention to the word being one of recognition as to the importance of a mom-person in someone's life and that as we grow, there are sometimes many people that fit in that role. As much as we may want to be everything to our children, we aren't nor will we be everything to them. We all get mothering from people outside of our immediate families. Open adoptions come with their own set of identity issues, it seems. In closed ones it was perhaps easier in that the b-moms were just erased, whited out of the child's life. It apparently is hard to have to acknowledge the other woman in the open ones.
I think we are hoping that you'll allow your daughter to feel comfortable, safe enough, to listen to her heart. Lord knows that we as moms, whatever kind we are, first, adopted, step, in-law, etc..we all seem to spew our share of guilt around on our kids anyway...we're hoping that in time, you'll feel OK with what she does and know that she knows who raised her, was there daily for her. It'll be OK, don't you think, for her to know that someone else cares for her in a motherly way as well? It must be hard knowing that there is the possibility that the birth mama may be important to her, too. It's hard, too, to give our children their wings and let them make their own choices...

[janiej]

I have two beautiful children. One is bio, the other is adopted. Of course, I can't tell them apart. We should all respect each other's feelings/viewpoints without being made to feel like we are morons.

I am most certainly NOT an idiot.

Was there something in my post that implied I thought you are a "moron" or an "idiot" ?
I apologize if I offended you in any way. I just don't see where I said anything that would warrant the above statement.

Smeone asked me how I would feel if my daughter wanted to call Dee "mom" in the future. I would not discourage her because I love my daughter. But, I certainly don't agree with it. That's all.

And that is exactly right. None of us HAVE to "agree" with anything. This is just discussion, plain and simple.
And I am glad to hear that you would not discourage it. That says volumes about your "motherhood". And I say that with all due respect.

[Montraviatommyg]

Using the title mum/mom as a term of endearment is a very good point. My mil asked me to call her mum but I never felt comfortable doing so but did so out of respect as I did like her. On the other hand I used to call one of my friend's mother mum as she was a special lady. It is a terrible thing to say but she was more of a mother to me than my own mother from whom I suffered a lot of emotional abuse. I absolutely agree mothers who have adoptive children are real mothers and should always be referred to as that. On the other hand there is no getting away from adoptees having two mothers even if they choose not to call their birth mother mum/mom. As I have already stated I didn't expect my son to call me mum nor did I feel entitled to be called that. However my feathers were ruffled when my sil voiced her opinion that my son shouldn't call me mum. I suggested she tell him that and see what reaction she got but she hasn't taken me up on that. I am sorry if I have offended any adoptive mothers but surely it is up to adoptees what they call their birth mothers. If we don't like it ... adoptive and birth mothers ... then that is our problem not theirs so should keep our opinions to ourselves. I know I am happy to finally be acknowledged as a mother so please don't attack me for feeling how I do.

Pip

[crick]

I've often thought about the title "thing". How I would feel if my children call their first mom "mom". Guess it's a matter of "logic" vs. "emotions", kwim?
Logically I know that it would be their choice, that it doesn't mean I'm less of a mom or that it somehow negates my title if they share it with her, because she is their first mother. Emotionally...I think it would sting at first. Just a reaction, one that I wouldn't consciously control, if that makes sense?

But then I started looking at it another way too...if my kids get married and have a good relationship with their mother in law, they might call her mom too. Different relationships and I'm not comparing the two (MIL & First mom), but when I think about it this way, it lets me realize that I'd be putting too much thought into a title. At least for me anyway.

I just try to keep things in check, I guess and remember that not everything is about ME. LOL! Dang it! Nah, what I mean is that I need to hold on to the reminder that it's not a personal action AGAINST me or takes anything away from me. Bottom line...my kids have 2 moms. I am raising them and get all the life experiences of their childhood. And when it comes to adulthood...every parent has to share their kids...with spouses, partners, children, in laws, and yes, their first mom/dad too, if that's what my kids choose to do.

Easy to say...so let's hope if and when a reunion occurs, I'll stick to my "LOGIC" thought process and if my emotions do go the other way, I'll keep those to myself.

[janiej]

I've often thought about the title "thing". How I would feel if my children call their first mom "mom". Guess it's a matter of "logic" vs. "emotions", kwim?
Logically I know that it would be their choice, that it doesn't mean I'm less of a mom or that it somehow negates my title if they share it with her, because she is their first mother. Emotionally...I think it would sting at first. Just a reaction, one that I wouldn't consciously control, if that makes sense?

Yes Crick, that makes perfect sense. The "logic" gets muddled in much of this reunion business. Of course it would "sting". After 40 years, it actually "stings" when I hear him call his mom "mom". Do you understand ?
Even though I am first to admit she IS his MOM, it hurts to hear it. Not logical at all, and she and I have a great relationship, and it is SHE who refers to him as "our son".
And amazing woman she is for sure. And I love her to death. Because SHE taught him his values. What I "wanted" to teach him , but couldn't at the time.
SHE did all the hard stuff, and SHE deserves to be called mom. But, isn't there just a little space in there where I somewhere very early on "earned" it too ??

Bottom line...my kids have 2 moms. I am raising them and get all the life experiences of their childhood.

Thanks Crick. Yes, you do get all the "good stuff", along with all the "hard stuff" too. And as a birthmom, I have nothing but the deepest respect for you. You are doing the job I SHOULD have done. That I WANTED to do, but couldn't at the time.
All I ask is that no one sees me any less than I deserve too.

I just try to keep things in check, I guess and remember that not everything is about ME.

I know it's not all about you. It's about ME alot of the time !!! hahahahahahaha

[crick]

Originally Posted by janiej

I know it's not all about you. It's about ME alot of the time !!! hahahahahahaha

ROFL! Do I sense a duel?

It makes perfect sense to me that you would feel that "sting" too. It's an automatic reaction at times I think. No matter how much logic we have, at some point those "tugs on the heart" can just zap us!

Well the way I figure it, is I'll have time to mentally prepare myself and work my own possible selfishness out. (I don't think I'm selfish for having my own feelings, but would be if I acted on them or voiced them to my children) I mean really, my 2 oldest kids who remember their first mom do refer to her as "mommy first name". And it doesn't sting. Sometimes they'll say "my other mom used to do xxxxx" and that doesn't sting either. I think that going into the adoption with my kids, I already accepted the fact that I'd be sharing them. It's a different aspect I think of older child adoption, in that I didn't parent my children from the very beginning, so maybe in a sense that is easier for me? I will admit though that when my dd and I were having a heart to heart talk in the car one day(about a year 1/2 ago) and she said "well, I love you now but I love mommy name more", that stung. It shouldn't have...logically...but emotionally..whew! And I admit that I did later go into my room and have a pity cry over that. No room for logic at that point. BUT....afterwards I realized something and that was she was feeling safe, comfortable and trusted me enough to share her feelings with me. That was a huge step for us in our relationship and I do cherish that.

[cute]

Shoshana yes it was the keyboard's fault...That jane goes around all day m against the wall.
Your story touched me shosana,as I truly believe it is the way it should be.
The birth mom brough a beautiful person into the world at a time she did not feel or was told it was in the best interest of her child to allow two people to raise her/him.The a/mother had the joy of raising this beautiful person.For your two mothers to be able to share in your life as an adult is wonderful.No threat just pure ,simple caring and loving.Your story was lovely.
The wod mom is just that.
I live in a neighborhood where a friend and I would look out for each other's children.If she was not available I would be vice versa.Her children called me mom2,my children called her mom 2....It is about being secure in who we are and realizing that we are not a threat to them nor are they a threat to them.

[mom2justynsarah]

Originally Posted by janiej

Was there something in my post that implied I thought you are a "moron" or an "idiot" ?
I apologize if I offended you in any way. I just don't see where I said anything that would warrant the above statement.

And that is exactly right. None of us HAVE to "agree" with anything. This is just discussion, plain and simple.
And I am glad to hear that you would not discourage it. That says volumes about your "motherhood". And I say that with all due respect.

Sorry- I must have been overly sensitive about something. lol!

Thanks for your sensitivity in this matter!

[Montraviatommyg]

Originally Posted by mom2justynsarah

Sorry- I must have been overly sensitive about something. lol!

Thanks for your sensitivity in this matter!

I think we've all been there at some time .

Pip

[janiej]

Sorry- I must have been overly sensitive about something. lol!

Thanks for your sensitivity in this matter

Hey ~~ these matters ARE sensitive. And like Pip said, we've all been there Most recently ME, as some here will tell you . Different "topic", different "thread", but overly sensitive none the less.

That's why I think it's great we can "discuss" these things without "attacks". I love discussions like this. And I love that we all have "fair" points of view to discuss.

Well, as for the "attacks", it DOES seem like Crick is trying to "start something up" with me.

Now, is anyone else NOT getting email notifications besides ME ??

[crick]

system went down a bit so email notifications might be slow... If you haven't gotten them, you'll likely get them all at once later. Won't that be fun?

"start something up with you?" he he...nah...I'm just on alert for dueling practice...thinking of getting into fencing so I can be in the next Olympics. Figured the Curling team was full up...

[Shoshana]

I'm on the judging panel, right? (I'll admit a secret admiration for Simon Cowel).

[Montraviatommyg]

Originally Posted by Shoshana

I'm on the judging panel, right? (I'll admit a secret admiration for Simon Cowel).

Shoshana, can I take your temperature ? He would be great if he lost his voice .

Pip