[sevvcmvv]

Hi,

Scott and Cathy here from Chester County, PA.

We are finished the paper work, dossier has been submitted, and awaiting translation/registration in Poland. We wish to adopt a girl between 4 and 6.11 yrs. of age. This is our second adoption. We adopted our son from TVER, Russia in May of '06.

If any one has advice, recently traveled, opinions on where to stay (hotel vs. apt.), recommendations for food, amount of spending cash to bring, etc. that would be great.

Thanks a bunch,

Scott

[mschaefer]

Scott and Cathy, I will PM you, but we live in DE about 1 mile from the state line (near Kennett Square).

We have a referral and are awaiting a court date.

Welcome!

Megan

[LisArno]

It's been over a year since we were in Poland, but...

• An apartment is definitely the way to go. We had a hotel the first two week visit and then an apartment the next two week visit.
• The weeks at the hotel, we tried at least 8 different restaurants (no fast food) - Polish, American (hamburgers/steaks), and Italian. Everything was great.
• The weeks at the apartment, we only went out twice, with one of those times being our last day after we had to vacate the apartment. We went down to the local "super" markets at least once a day and found food that we could cook. We had spaghetti, soup/bread, and bought "spice packets" that we had to add a few other ingredients to (they come w/ pictures so that helped).
• I brought about $3000 cash for each trip, and think I spent about $1000 the first trip and maybe $1500 the second. I used my credit card for the restaurants, as well as at the Carrefour we shopped at a few times in Warsaw; cash was for quick snacks/ice cream/drinks and the smaller grocery stores.

[lastpaige]

Yes, an apartment is the way to go. Not only will it give you a 'home', which is psychologically helpful, but also a kitchen and (potentially) a washing machine. The kitchen will help keep your overall costs (and weight!) down. Also - once you have more than 4 people, most hotels will make you get TWO rooms. That would not have worked financially well for the 6 of us.

Food - we were in Wroclaw, Lodz, Poznan, Krakow, and Warsaw and ate in and out in all locations. Going out we were really pleased almost everywhere we went. Beware - order one meal for every two children and split it. Our boys (8) can really eat and even they had plenty splitting meals. Eating in - we ate a lot of Knorr just add water soup and I'd chop fresh veggies into it. You can buy fresh bread everywhere, and cutlets or something prepped at the markets. That way (in a limited stock kitchen) you can still eat pretty well.

We stayed for 7 weeks and traveled once the boys were ours - so we took an obscene amount of cash. We paid cash for everything we could - so as to not get the little annoying 3% fees for using our cards in Poland.

[LisArno]

My credit card doesn't have the fee for currency conversion, so that was a "bonus" for us. From what I have heard, credit cards tend to give a better exchange rate than the cash exchanges, but I never checked my credit card bill against my exchange receipts, so I don't know how much that difference would offset the 3% (or other) fee. Basically, it's a matter of what you are most comfortable with.

[momraine]

I will third the idea of the apartment. We did a hotel for part of our trip and then an apartment, the apartment was better. If you have a laptop you want to bring, try to find one with internet, also you will want a washing machine. For us an elevator was also a must as our son was in a wheelchair and we were able to get a small one close to the embassy. We had our facilitator take us to a big grocery store once (I am not kidding it was like a walmart!) and then we went every day or every other day to the small grocery store. We ate bread, sausage, pierogi, cereal, cheese (I liked the creamy cheeses on bread) jelly, nutella, eggs, potatos, spagetti, pudding, yogurt and I can't remember what else. It was good though. I liked being able to cook for us. My son's favorite was tomato soup that I added spagetti to. (I broke it up, I bought it but then did not find any sauce, so I broke it up in the soup on a whim and he loved it)
Anyway, an added bonus, my son loved watching the washing machine, LOL. He could watch it forever. Also for bad weather days the TV was helpful. We never turned it on the first three or four weeks, but that last week we were tired of the apartment, but it was cold outside, so we did watch TV, he watched cartoons and then when he went to sleep I watched BBC, I was lonly for English by then. Though I did attend an English church while I was there and that was helpful.

[sevvcmvv]

LisArno => Thanks for the info. Now we have a better idea as for what we should expect.

Scott

[sevvcmvv]

Momraine => Thanks for the ideas on what to eat and cook. My wife and I have not discussed what to do yet whether it will be hotel or apartment. But at least we have three votes for an apartment.

Scott

[Kama]

Scott-another vote for an apartment . We used old town apartments (company working in Warszawa, Krakow, Wroclaw, maybe other places). They buy and renovate apartments in old towns and rent them out for a while, and then sell and acquire new ones and do the same. In any case, some of them were beautiful, with nice views. In Warsaw, for example, we stayed right on the Old Rynek (marketsquare). I was concerned that it would be noisy, but it was very quiet, except for occasional church bells which was lovely. We did not have elevators, but you could request the ground, 1st floor if you need that. Remember, most Poles do not have clothes dryers, but only washing machines and clothes are dried on metal or wooden racks (which were provided in our apartments). In some of them toasters, hair dryers were missing, but we requested them and the company was very prompt with supplying whatever was missing.

I was also surprised that your agency did not dissuade you from requesting a very specific age. Did your agency mention anything about that?

[sevvcmvv]

Hi Kama,

We were asked to give a range. After much thought that is the range my wife and I choose. We had to give a range for our Russian adoption as well. Although I think between 4 and 6+ yrs. of age is fairly wide.

Thanks for the information about the apartments and the companies name.

Scott

[Kama]

Scott,

Russian adoption is very different from Polish adoption. My friend gave a range of 2-4 a few years ago and without specifying gender, and she waited for over 2 yrs. She was repeatedly told that the range was too narrow. We initially asked for under 4 yrs old and were told the same thing, so we did 0-7 in the end. Based on personal conversations with the adoption center staff, we also got a clear impression that the adoption center does not like to see age, gender restrictions. Nonetheless, this is what you have been told, so I guess this is what it is.

Originally Posted by sevvcmvv

Hi Kama,

We were asked to give a range. After much thought that is the range my wife and I choose. We had to give a range for our Russian adoption as well. Although I think between 4 and 6+ yrs. of age is fairly wide.

Thanks for the information about the apartments and the companies name.

Scott

[momraine]

The thing is in Russia there are far more children available because Russians hardly ever adopt. However in Poland, healthy young children are often adopted by people living in Poland. It's more acceptable there. Also Poland is not as poor as Russia so there are fewer people giving up thier children due to poverty. Most of the children available for adoption were abused or neglected or have some sort of special need. In Russia, many healthy young children are placed in orphanages due to simple poverty. Also the process is very different. In Russia, you can (thorugh your agency contacts) request to adopt any child who is listed on the registry. (it's a little more complicated but basically that is how it works, your agency finds a child on the registry that also happens to be in an area they have connections and chooses that child for you) In Poland, your agency has no say. You cannot request an available child except under specific circumstances (I did, but it was a special circumstance) In Poland the way it works (again I am simplifying it a lot) is a committee meets and they have a stack of files of children who need homes. They take the first child's file (note the main difference here, they start with the needs of the child, in Russia it's the desires of the parent that dictate the refferal) and they start to look through the files they have of prospective parents. They look first at the Poles who live in Poland, then at the Poles who live outside of Poland and then at people of Polish descent, then move on to other couples and singles are at the bottom of the list. As soon as they find a match for a child, they will pick up another child's file and do the same thing. Then when time is up for that meeting they end. They will contact the agency or the parents and tell them about the children. Then the parents may accept or reject the refferal. If the parents accept then the dates for the bonding period and the court date are set (though sometimes this can take a while as it's up to the individual judge) If the parents say no, the children's file goes back into the pile and the parents file goes back into their pile (in pretty much the same part of the pile, you don't move to the top of the pile as that is still reserved for Poles living in Poland) And maybe at the next meeting you will get another referal. I am not sure how many children are assigned at each meeting. However it's possible that no single children of that age will be assigned for some time and also if other people are ahead of you, then you will have to wait for another child of that age and gender. So the wider your specifications the more likly you are to get a refferal. Lately there have been a lot of siblings. I think that in this group I am the only one in the last year who did not bring home siblings. My son was six, but severly handicapped.

[Kama]

Right Momraine, thanks for the detail - this is what I meant exactly. In fact, the agency that I think Scott is with, "specializes" in large sibling groups. Although I have seen single children adopted sporadically. Scott, this is not to discourage you, you may get lucky, but in my experience watching the process for over two years, it seems to be a bit too restrictive. Again, you should follow your agency's advice, but it might be good to at least ask them and ask whether you should expect a long wait for referral because of the small range.

[sevvcmvv]

Thank you for the information.

Although my initial question was not about what we were putting down in our dossier, but what info anyone can share about their adoption process/experience in Poland. I do appreciate everyones time and effort. Please understand we did not ask for any comments about our wishes/desires. I was just providing basic information about us. I would not have done that if I knew it would open people up to making critical comments about what is already completed. I know everyone has good intentions.

I am intimately familiar with the process of both countries as I have immediate relatives in Europe. (Read: My Mom did, Cousins, Grandparents, Aunts and Uncles, all still live in and around greater Europe.

Thanks again,

Scott

Originally Posted by momraine

The thing is in Russia there are far more children available because Russians hardly ever adopt. However in Poland, healthy young children are often adopted by people living in Poland. It's more acceptable there. Also Poland is not as poor as Russia so there are fewer people giving up thier children due to poverty. Most of the children available for adoption were abused or neglected or have some sort of special need. In Russia, many healthy young children are placed in orphanages due to simple poverty. Also the process is very different. In Russia, you can (thorugh your agency contacts) request to adopt any child who is listed on the registry. (it's a little more complicated but basically that is how it works, your agency finds a child on the registry that also happens to be in an area they have connections and chooses that child for you) In Poland, your agency has no say. You cannot request an available child except under specific circumstances (I did, but it was a special circumstance) In Poland the way it works (again I am simplifying it a lot) is a committee meets and they have a stack of files of children who need homes. They take the first child's file (note the main difference here, they start with the needs of the child, in Russia it's the desires of the parent that dictate the refferal) and they start to look through the files they have of prospective parents. They look first at the Poles who live in Poland, then at the Poles who live outside of Poland and then at people of Polish descent, then move on to other couples and singles are at the bottom of the list. As soon as they find a match for a child, they will pick up another child's file and do the same thing. Then when time is up for that meeting they end. They will contact the agency or the parents and tell them about the children. Then the parents may accept or reject the refferal. If the parents accept then the dates for the bonding period and the court date are set (though sometimes this can take a while as it's up to the individual judge) If the parents say no, the children's file goes back into the pile and the parents file goes back into their pile (in pretty much the same part of the pile, you don't move to the top of the pile as that is still reserved for Poles living in Poland) And maybe at the next meeting you will get another referal. I am not sure how many children are assigned at each meeting. However it's possible that no single children of that age will be assigned for some time and also if other people are ahead of you, then you will have to wait for another child of that age and gender. So the wider your specifications the more likly you are to get a refferal. Lately there have been a lot of siblings. I think that in this group I am the only one in the last year who did not bring home siblings. My son was six, but severly handicapped.

[sevvcmvv]

Hello Kama.

My wife and I are fully aware of the anticipated wait time. Although, as I explained above, I was not expecting comments about our age range. I know you have good intentions, but we are more interested in learing about everyones experiences.

Thanks, Scott

Originally Posted by Kama

Right Momraine, thanks for the detail - this is what I meant exactly. In fact, the agency that I think Scott is with, "specializes" in large sibling groups. Although I have seen single children adopted sporadically. Scott, this is not to discourage you, you may get lucky, but in my experience watching the process for over two years, it seems to be a bit too restrictive. Again, you should follow your agency's advice, but it might be good to at least ask them and ask whether you should expect a long wait for referral because of the small range.