[lastpaige]

So . . .

Are these automatically sent by some agency?
If so how long does it take for them to arrive?

or


Do we have to apply for these?
If so how?

[Kama]

Jacqueline,

Yes, they came automatically to us a few weeks after the kids arrived. Once you have the Certificates of Naturalization, go the the Social Security office to apply for the SS numbers.

[PolishMom]

Yes, don't believe the immigration form when it asks if you want a SS number assigned, it never happens. We made the mistake 2xs (shame on us).

Originally Posted by Kama

Jacqueline,

Yes, they came automatically to us a few weeks after the kids arrived. Once you have the Certificates of Naturalization, go the the Social Security office to apply for the SS numbers.

[momraine]

We made the mistake too, but ours when we went to apply they asked us if we checked the box and sent us home when we said yes, so six weeks later we tried again and this time did not say we checked the box, we acted dumb and soon after had the SS card.

[lastpaige]

We received Naturalization papers for one of our boys today, Yeah!

Am I safe in assuming the other will come on it's own? Or should I be concerned that they were not together?

[LisArno]

Congratulations!

I received three "welcome packets" for ONE of my children, and NONE for the other two. I called the toll-free number and had to enter my children's "case" (??) numbers - impossible since I had three sets of the same! I had to push sooooo many buttons until I accidentally got to speak to a live person, and then he asked scripted questions I couldn't answer since I didn't have their papers, and I finally said, "Can't I just tell you the problem?" Then they sent a few other wrong papers or duplicates - I don't remember any more - but I finally do have the papers I need.

When I filed taxes for last year, my kids were not citizens yet (we stayed in Germany and didn't go to the States until June), so I had to apply for special numbers for them. By the time they looked at my taxes the kids were citizens, and then I got papers saying I couldn't ask for those numbers since those are only for non-citizens, and they couldn't process my taxes. I replied to look at the timing, and then I still got info back saying my taxes were being processed without the numbers and my refund would be adjusted according. I was upset, and then my refund came - exactly as I had calculated. Arrrrggghhh!

So.....the words "assume", "government agency", and "will work" should not be used in the same sentence. [I have a government job].

[sak9645]

With regard to citizenship, it all depends on whether your child comes home on an IR-3 or IR-4 visa. (You can find the visa stamp in your child's foreign passport.)

If both parents in a married couple travel and see the child BEFORE the issuance of a final adoption decree abroad, or if a person adopting as a single travels and sees the child BEFORE the issuance of the final adoption decree, the child comes home on an IR-3 visa. The adoption is considered full and final by the U.S. government. Readopting or doing a recognition is optional unless the family's state of residence requires it, and the child is considered to be a U.S. citizen as soon as he/she enters the U.S. A certificate of citizenship is issued automatically, and the family should receive it within 60-90 days.

If only one parent or neither parent in a married couple sees the child before the issuance of a final decree of adoption by the foreign government, or if a person adopting as a single does not see the child before the issuance of the final decree of adoption abroad, the child comes home on an IR-4 visa. The U.S. government does NOT consider the child to have had a full and final adoption, even if the foreign country issued a final decree. As a result, the family MUST do a readoption or recognition of the child's foreign adoption in the family's home state before the adoption is considered final. The child does NOT become a U.S. citizen until the readoption decree or recognition document is issued. At that point, the family must APPLY for a certificate of citizenship for the child, using the N-600 form and paying the required fee. Some USCIS offices are taking several months to process the N-600.

In cases where the foreign government does NOT issue a final decree of adoption, and the child travels to the U.S. under a decree of guardianship for adoption here --this happens in Korean adoptions, for example -- the child also travels on an IR-4 visa. Because no adoption has occurred abroad, the parents MUST adopt in their home state. The child is not considered to be a U.S. citizen until the adoption is finalized. At that time, the parents must apply for a certificate of citizenship using the N-600 and paying the appropriate fee. Some state USCIS offices are taking several months to process the N-600.

If you must travel overseas with a child before you receive his/her certificate of citizenship, you can still obtain a U.S. passport for him/her IF he/she either came home on an IR-3 visa OR you have adopted/readopted/done a recognition of an IR-4 child in the U.S. A child is not eligible for a U.S. passport until the U.S. considers him/her to have had a full and final adoption and he/she is considered a U.S. citizen, so you cannot obtain a passport for a child who came home on an IR-4 visa, unless there is a state adoption/readoption/recognition.


Sharon

[LisArno]

Our kids had IR-3 Visas. My problems were due to the inefficiency or lack of knowledge/training of the government workers processing the paperwork.

[sak9645]

As to Social Security, I would recommend getting a SSN for your child even before you get your certificate of citizenship. You are likely to need it for such purposes as adding your child to your insurance policy or filing your income tax return. And it is GENERALLY not difficult to obtain the number.

Remember that, technically, you are NOT allowed to use the ATIN for an internationally adopted child, for tax purposes. You must have a SSN. The ATIN is supposed to be used only in certain domestic adoption situations where an SSN was issued at birth to a child, but cannot be used by the new family.

As an example, in some cases, the family will be eligible to claim the American-born child as a dependent before the adoption is finalized, because they have physical and legal custody, but the judge will not allow the family to know the SSN until finalization occurs, so a temporary number is needed. As another example, in some cases, a child's SSN has been used fraudulently by a member of the birth family, and the adoptive family may be advised to apply for a new SSN for the child; until it arrives, the family may need the ATIN for tax purposes. Such situations do NOT generally occur with international adoptions.

Do not let anyone tell you that you cannot get a SSN for your child until he/she has been readopted or until your child is a U.S. citizen. As long as you have legal and physical custody of the child, you CAN get a SSN for him/her.

Here is something I wrote earlier about getting a SSN for an internationally adopted child:

You can get a SSN for any foreign child who has been legally placed with you for adoption, just as soon as you arrive home with him/her.

It doesn't matter whether the adoption was finalized overseas, or whether the child came home under a decree of guardianship for adoption here. It doesn't matter if he/she came home on an IR-3 visa or on an IR-4 visa. It doesn't matter whether or not you have readopted or done a recognition in your state. And it doesn't matter whether he/she is already a citizen, or whether you will need to do a readoption or recognition before he/she becomes one.

Just wander down to your local SS office. Bring originals of your child's birth certificate, adoption decree or decree of guardianship, and foreign passport. Also bring some identification for yourself, such as your passport.

If you happen to have already done a legal name change or adoption/readoption, and/or have already obtained a Certificate of Citizenship or U.S. passport for your child, bring those documents, too. However, you don't really need them just to get a number.

Fill our a form to request a new SSN and wait till you are called by the clerk. When you are called, he/she will photocopy your documents and hand them right back to you.

You should be able to find our your child's SSN that day. In any event, you should get your child's new SS card within about two weeks.

Do remember, however, a few important things:

1. If your child's American name is not on any of his/her foreign documents, the card will probably be issued in his/her foreign name. Once in a while, a clerk will take pity on you and issue the card in the American name, regardless, but don't count on it. But this is no big deal. For tax purposes, just put the American name with the foreign one in parentheses, or vice versa, when you list your dependents. Once you do a legal name change, through readoption or some other mechanism, bring the order indicating the name change back to the SS office and fill out a name change form. The clerk will photocopy your document and return it to you. Your child's SSN will stay the same, but a new card with the corrected name will be sent to your home.

2. If you do not yet have a certificate of citizenship or a U.S. passport for your child, you can get a SSN for your child, but the Social Security Administration's records will list him/her as a resident alien, not a citizen, even if he is one. The SSA is NOT allowed, by law, to "adjudicate status" -- determine who is or is not a citizen. Only the USCIS or the State Department can do that. For internationally adopted children, the SSA MUST see EITHER a COC or a U.S. passport to list your child as a citizen. (A state birth certificate does NOT prove citizenship for foreign born people.)

But this is no big deal either. If your child comes home on an IR-3 visa, you'll get a COC automatically in the mail. When you get it, go down to the SS office with it and fill out a status change form. The clerk will copy the document and return it to you immediately. Your child's status will be changed in the computer, but his/her SSN will stay the same. You may or may not be issued a new card.

If your child comes home on an IR-4 visa, he/she does not become an automatic citizen until you readopt him/her in your state OR until you do a "recognition" of the adoption, if your state allows it. So he/she can't get a COC or U.S. passport until you do one of these things. Once you have done a readoption or recognition, you can file the N-600 to obtain a COC and/or obtain a U.S. passport for your child. Then you can go back to the SS office, fill out a status change form, and have his status listed correctly.

Although most people get a SSN for their children with no trouble at all, some HAVE run into difficulties because of ill-informed clerks. While the SSA did extensive training of staff after the Child Citizenship Act of 2000 was passed, some clerks may have forgotten or may be new.

Here are some of the types of misinformation you may hear:

1. You need to do an adoption or readoption in the U.S. to get a card. NONSENSE. You can get a card for a child brought home from overseas as long as he/she is in your legal and physical custody and you have documents (foreign adoption or guardianship decree, foreign passport) proving it.

2. Your child needs to be a U.S. citizen to get a card. NONSENSE. People can get SS cards as long as they are legal permanent residents; your cleaning woman and lawn service guy probably have them, even if they are not citizens. Now, if you have not shown the clerk a certificate of citizenship or a U.S. passport for your child, it is true that the SS Administration MUST list your child as a legal permanent resident, and not a citizen, in SS records, but a card can still be issued. You can always change status in the SS files later, when you get one of these documents.

3. You need to show your child's green card. NONSENSE. All that the SS folks need from the green card is the "A-number" (Alien Registration Number), which is the same one that is in your child's passport, and which proves that he/she entered the U.S. legally. Many internationally adopted children never get green cards, because nowadays, kids coming home on IR-3 visas get certificates of citizenship issued automatically instead.

4. You need to have your child's paperwork translated by an official U.S. translator, which will delay the issuance of the card a few weeks. NONSENSE. You have a translation of your child's adoption paperwork that is official. It is the one that was accepted by the U.S. State Department and the USCIS when your child was granted a visa to enter the U.S. You have absolutely no need for another translation, and Social Security regulations do not require one. DO NOT let a misinformed clerk get away with this one.

5. You need proof that the child mentioned in the foreign adoption paperwork is the same one that's mentioned in the readoption decree. NONSENSE. This one is just plain off-the-wall. You've got documents referencing a child with the same birth date, the same adoption situation, the same parents. An American judge has signed off on the whole thing. What more do you need?

6. You need to provide vaccination records to show that the child has had all his shots before a SSN can be issued. NONSENSE! Thank goodness I've heard of this argument only twice. The SSA has NOTHING to do with immunizations, and the request is a total invasion of privacy, and probably illegal.

Here is what you should do, if you hear any of these or any other misinformed comments:

1. Print out a copy of the part of the Social Security Administration's website, which gives instructions for getting a SSN for an internationally adopted child. The home page address is Social Security Online. Carry the document with you when you go back to the
SS office.

2. Ask to see a supervisor. Explain your situation and then show him/her the website printout. Many supervisors are better informed than their staff, and can clear up a situation easily.

3. If the supervisor is no help, consider going to another SS office. Why raise your blood pressure?! There is probably another office within 20 miles of your home or office. Chances are, the personnel at the other office will be able to help.

4. If this doesn't work, call your homestudy agency or, if local, your placement agency. Many good agencies have excellent contacts in places like the SSA, the USCIS, and the Passport Agency, and can troubleshoot problems for their clients. You may even find that your agency has already heard similar complaints before, and has resolved them.

5. If your homestudy or placement agency (regardless of where located) does not have good contacts, check to see whether it is a member of the Joint Council on International Children's Services (JCICS). If it is, ask your agency's Executive Director or other senior staffer to contact JCICS and ask it to help troubleshoot a problem. JCICS is a renowned adoption advocacy
group, and the largest membership association of international adoption agencies in the world. It has excellent contacts in various branches of government, as well as elsewhere. Do not call JCICS directly, as it does not have the staffing to allow it to troubleshoot problems for individuals or non-member agencies. It does a great job of helping member agencies solve problems, however.

6. If JCICS can't help, then by all means call your Representative or Senator, especially if he/she is a member of the Congressional Coalition on Adoption. While it isn't a good idea to bother these people unnecessarily, they ARE there to help constituents who have tried every other possible way
to solve a problem.

I hope this helps.

Sharon
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