[lastpaige]

It appears to be that once you’re approved to adopt that the dossier is placed into a pile of ‘approved parents’. Then a governing board meets a few times a year to peruse the pile of approved adoptive parents and the pile of approved adoptive children and match up whomever they can match up. Is this correct? If so then referrals come in waves, say quarterly? How do the three umbrella entities (under whom all the orphanages fall) fit into this?


Thank you!

[Jasiu]

Lastpaige- I will describe our knowledge of the process at the public adoption center in Warsaw (one of the three you mention, director of this one is Mrs. Podczaska). My wife and I met with its staff in May 06 and we specifically discussed the matching process with them. First of all, it is our understanding that each of the three centers has its own governing body (referral commission), which in the case of the public center meets once a month currently. Each of the three centers gets the children to be matched through a lottery (so each center has 1/3 of all children available for adoption-hence working with agencies that submit your dossier to all three can be an advantage as you have potentially have access to all the children). The last meeting took place on June 13th and the next one should be coming up soon this month. My wife will be calling the center in a few days and we will let everyone know when it happens.

Following the approval as adoptive parents (which also involves a meeting of a commission), your dossier is put into a file and assigned a number, which looks like this xx/2006 (if you were approved this year). We actually know our number and saw our file. You are placed into one of 3 categories: list “A” of parents residing in Poland, list “B” of parents residing abroad who have Polish roots (we are in this category), and then the rest. Each file is assigned a person responsible on your last name’s first letter (the “leading person” or “osoba prowadzaca” in Polish). The commission is composed of lawyers, psychologists, etc. They work hard and told us that they do take into account the interest of the child and also request made by prospective parents as to age, sex, etc. of the child or children. We have heard that in addition to many factors that go into the decision physical resemblance may play some role. This is surely not a rule and we know parents who have adopted minority children from Poland (e.g. Roma) who did not look anything like them.

We were told that although we are on the “B” list, which puts us ahead of many foreigners, it may take a few months or even a year to match us with children. It simply depends on what types of children are available at the time and how many families want to adopt children with similar characteristics. We are fairly flexible, as we requested a child or 2 siblings 0-7 yrs old, any sex. We know a Polish family residing in Germany who waited 3 years for a referral because they requested a child 3-4 years old specifically, which was much too restrictive.

NOTE: We are still not completely sure how agencies/facilitators fit into the above picture. We know that they do have connections with orphanages and the 3 Warsaw adoption centers and seem to be able to influence decisions about referrals. I will not use names, but we are puzzled that one facilitator seems to be placing less healthy, older, larger sibling groups as opposed to another agency which seems to be placing younger, healthier children. I will add that the latter is more expensive.

I hope others will add their experiences and insight. The above is based on our extensive research, meetings with staff at the public adoption center in Warsaw and an orphanage in Poland, numerous communications with parents who have adopted or are in the process of adopting right now.

Originally Posted by lastpaige

It appears to be that once you’re approved to adopt that the dossier is placed into a pile of ‘approved parents’. Then a governing board meets a few times a year to peruse the pile of approved adoptive parents and the pile of approved adoptive children and match up whomever they can match up. Is this correct? If so then referrals come in waves, say quarterly? How do the three umbrella entities (under whom all the orphanages fall) fit into this?


Thank you!

[Jasiu]

Lastpage-
can you remind me whether you have been qualified and when? I think you posted something about it, but I do not remember the details. Has your paperwork been submitted to all 3 centers?

Originally Posted by lastpaige

It appears to be that once you’re approved to adopt that the dossier is placed into a pile of ‘approved parents’. Then a governing board meets a few times a year to peruse the pile of approved adoptive parents and the pile of approved adoptive children and match up whomever they can match up. Is this correct? If so then referrals come in waves, say quarterly? How do the three umbrella entities (under whom all the orphanages fall) fit into this?


Thank you!

[LisArno]

Another theme on International Adoption posted a link to the top ten countries that adopt and from what countries. http://www.aican.org/statistics.php .

According to that info, Italians adopted 195 children from Poland in 2004, and 196 in 2005. Americans adopted 102 in 2004 (no numbers given for 2005). Sweden was third with 21 in 2004 and 27 in 2005.

I fell into Category C - everyone else. I knew that I was "at the bottom" of the list, but despite living in Europe, I never even considered that other countries would also be adopting from Poland (I'm usually more 'worldly' and should have had a clue).

So...when waiting for referrals, remember that Americans aren't the only ones wanting Polish children! [Though I can't imagine my children, who I have yet to meet, learning to speak Italian or Swedish!].

[lastpaige]

Jasiu - We were only approved the end of May, so we certainly have a long way to go. I was just curious about the process on the Polish end. Our paper work has been submitted to 2 of the 3 centers - we do not qualify for the third. I'm assuming we would fit into category B, as my husband was born and raised in Poland and is still fluent. As for matching physical characteristics, we've got most of the anglo spectrum covered: light to very dark hair, very blue to brown eyes, and tan to very light skin. The only thing we couldn't cover is a red head!

Thanks for all your information, it's much appreciated!

[Jasiu]

Thanks for the numbers. In 2005, only 73 children were adopted from Poland to the United States so few compared to Italy. Our attorney did mention that the Italian agencies have good connections at the adoption centers in Warsaw. Well, Italy has a dismal birth rate, so no wonder Italians are adopting like mad. So, yes, we are in competition with other countries. I would guess that Poland prefers to adopt to other European countries, to keep the children as close as possible.

Originally Posted by LisArno

Another theme on International Adoption posted a link to the top ten countries that adopt and from what countries. http://www.aican.org/statistics.php .

According to that info, Italians adopted 195 children from Poland in 2004, and 196 in 2005. Americans adopted 102 in 2004 (no numbers given for 2005). Sweden was third with 21 in 2004 and 27 in 2005.

I fell into Category C - everyone else. I knew that I was "at the bottom" of the list, but despite living in Europe, I never even considered that other countries would also be adopting from Poland (I'm usually more 'worldly' and should have had a clue).

So...when waiting for referrals, remember that Americans aren't the only ones wanting Polish children! [Though I can't imagine my children, who I have yet to meet, learning to speak Italian or Swedish!].

[hybell]

I seem to remember reading that Italy has fewer cultural problems adopting older children. Something to do with a existing apprentice system that often ended with the apprentice - not the owners biological children - inheriting the trade? If anyone knows the source of this, I'd be interested in reading more. I know I heard about it at the same time I heard about Canada adopting US children on a regular basis (as do other countries with fewer biases against older child adoptions).

At any rate, it may be as much the availability of older children in Poland, and the US cultural bias towards young infant adoptions.

[momraine]

My father used to also tell me about a form of fostering that was once very common in Europe among wealthy families (and notably royalty) as a way of promoting alleigences. One one of your children reached a certain age,(somewhere between 8-14) they would be sent to spend the rest of thier childhood with another family so they would bond to that family as well. The foster child would be treated like the foster families own child. The US has a much younger culture and of course as any school child can tell you it's based on Indipendance. LOL.
As for us, we are using the Catholic adoption center. Our child has what is considered a severe disability and so a charity was advocating to find him a home. So we heard about him and are doing things kind of backwards. Adopting having already found our child, which is NOT how you do things in Poland. It's only the fact that the child is older and faces this disability and the fact that our facilitator (most of her experence is helping people in Swedan adopt, but now she is working for an American agency, but she already has contacts and relationships in Poland). I think there are a lot of factors that go into it when they are trying to match children.
Lorraine

[Anita]

An important thing to remember when you consider number of children adopted in the US from Poland is sibling groups. According to the US State Department, http://travel.state.gov/family/adopt...untry_438.html, 73 children were adopted from Poland in 2005 and 100 children in 2004.

Many of the 73 children in 2005 were a part of a sibling group. Many are siblings of three or more. Therefore, there were not 73 families bringing children home to the US. The number of families being matched with Polish children is much smaller.

People looking for sibling groups of three or more will have a much quicker experience. This is where Poland and the children need help.

Often people looking for sibling groups of two will be presented with a sibling group of three in their referral.

[lastpaige]

If we were approved in our i600a for 2, can we still adopt 3 if that is what's referred to us?

[Mom2_4]

I'm finding this thread so durn interesting. From what little I know about this subject, you ALL are right.

I think that Jasiu is right that various agencies in country representative do have relationships with orphanage directors to keep tabs on who is coming available and then advocate for their clients. Having adopted with the "older/less healthy" agency, I've seen that some of the parents’ fees go back into infrastructure of the orphanages that children are adopted from. Also, the "older/less healthy" agency charges the same amount no matter the number of children. Hybell and I paid the same agency/facilitator related fees even though she adopted 1 child and I adopted 3.

And since Jasiu wife who reads the internal Polish adoption boards has mentioned that resident Poles (Category A) are facing wait times as well~~ I do find it odd when extremely young healthy babies and toddlers are adopted by Category B or Category C folks, since there are Category A folks waiting.

And LisArno is also correct about the international connection. My facilitator was urging us to say a quicker yes to our trio than we were comfortable with because their was a Italian facilitator also advocating to the children's legal guardian for our trio. Looks wise, one of my kids would have made a fine Italian and the other two would have look liked the shortest Swedes ever. But heck, they are now American's who eat lots of pierogi and kielbasa.

And Anita is also correct. Lots of Poland to US adoptions are multiples. My kids alone were 3 out of the 104 adopted in 2004. And we had signed up for two but with gentle arm-twisting by "M", we changed our request to three. Now, I have to say, we asked for a brother and sister younger than our 1 bio boy and said that we were open to a brother and 2 sisters, younger than our bio son. As most you know. I've not got three boys and 1 girl now, so you don't exactly get what you ask for.

I swear we got our three because two of them were grossly underweight and undersized at referral and I'm heavy and had almost 10 year old boy who was very healthy and attractive looking.

This is what I picture them saying at the monthly referral meeting:


"Hum, we have three children here. They are so skinny. In our list of potential parents, are there any fat mothers?

"Hey, this wife of this couple is overweight but active. Oh, look she has Polish heritage and they both are Catholic. Dobsha, dobsha."

"What about the Hubby?"

"Oh, he has almost got his black belt in Karate."

"Dobsha, dobsha. She can fatten them up and he can keep them in line."

“Do you think that they can handle three children?”

"They already have a child."

"Then they have experience. What does he look like?

"Nice and healthy and eager for a brother."

"Let's give him two brothers."

"Dobsha, dobsha! Works for me, lets go to lunch now."

But in reality, I have no idea why. When I asked our in-cournty lawyer, he kept say that "It was all up to God." Funny thing, is that I don't remember making any checks out to God!.

[momraine]

Lastpaige, I think that you need to get an addendum to your homestudy that says you can have three, also your 171 might need something to say three. I always tell new adopters to get the homestudy and i600A to list one more child than you think you want, just in case. LOL

Mom 2 4, I will have three boys and a girl too when I get this little guy home! We will have to compare notes.

[Jasiu]

For those interested-my wife called the public adopton center (POAW) this morning and was told that the next referral meeting will be about 2 weeks from now, the staff member said that there are in the midst of organizing one... Will keep you posted.

For those who have submitted their dossier to two or three different adoption center - what happens if you get two referrals from two different centers at once? Anyone had this happend? This obviously does not apply to us as ours is only at POAW, but we were curious how that would work.

[LisArno]

I had read in our facilitator's info packet that if you request two children you are often offered three. My husband and I were going to ask for two, but discussed what would happen if we were offered three. We knew we wouldn't be able to say no to that one extra mouth to feed (and Nike's to buy, and PS games, and, and, and). Since we were going to be first time parents, our SW tried to talk us in to just one child, or two at the most. She didn't want this to "be a lesson in behavior management", and told us we could always adopt again later. First, we wouldn't be able to afford to adopt again later nor do I care to go through the paperwork process again, and second, I've had extensive experience with learning disabilities, ADHD, emotional impairments, and my parents adopted a ten year old boy (I was 12) who had been abused in every way possible and life was hell for quite some time. I was in tears about this and thinking how unfair for someone to decide this for us. She eventually recommended two, and if we had three they had to be healthy.

That was the long way to agree with momraine. I think your homestudy would have to be updated so that you can get CIS/INS approved for one more.

More on making matches. Our oldest girl has been learning English in school for the past year. That's how we were chosen over the Italians We have a small pond with fish/turtles/frogs, and the photo of me that was sent to Poland was next to the Rhine River. One of the photos of our oldest daughter shows her with a fishing pole (though she won't be fishing in our pond) - it's a match. Our youngest two were listed as "dynamic", which I have interpreted as hyperactive, and our homestudy indicates I work with ADHD children - another match. Country western dancing was listed as a hobby of ours in our homestudy, and a recent report of our youngest daughter indicates she "feels the rhythm" - Poland thinks this is a match, but they haven't seen my rhythm! I've yet to figure out how our son was matched to us - we'd all have the same hair color if mine was natural. (Apologies to Mom2_4 for copying her humor.)

A previous referral of three boys indicated they all had some sort of learning disability and/or speech/language impairment. I definitely thought they were referred to us because of my background with those areas.

It would really be interesting how they make these matches. I can definitely see matching interests when adopting older children, but I wonder how the younger children are matched with families.

I assume Italians tend to adopt 1-2 children, rather than the larger sibling groups that Americans adopt. I wonder how many of those are Polish-Italians. Here in Germany my husband works with a Polish guy who actually has Norwegian citizenship (I think moved to Norway 20-some years ago when he was 20-something and he's been in Germany 5-7 years now).

[Jasiu]

Thanks for sharing your guesses on why matches were made. Fascinating!