[scooter71]

I apologize for the length of this message… We need tips on how to help our daughter who is having extreme fits of rage that last 1-2 hrs if we don’t give in. During these episodes her screams sound more like a growling animal than a child crying. She also does a strange motion like she’s hitting herself in the face repeatedly – but not hard, it’s more like brushing her hand across her face vertically.

She was abandoned at birth in Kazakhstan, we adopted her at 10 months old along w/ a boy 6 months older than her (having 2 kids has made this particularly stressful, her behavior scares her brother). The orphanage & caregivers were nice compared to other stories & pictures we’ve seen. We didn’t see any signs of severe neglect there, though we realize we don’t know the half of it.

We’ve worked hard for the 1-1/2 years we’ve been home w/ them to try & do everything “right.” We have a consistent schedule, lots & lots of time spent reading & playing, & we give them loads of hugs, kisses, eye contact, touch & attention – w/ a real consciousness to the idea of not playing favorites.

We honestly give them 100% of our attention 80% of their waking hrs. We each take one child alone for a bit on the weekends. I stay home as much as possible w/ them, working just 3 days per week. The times I’m working they are w/ their aunt in her home.

Our daughter doesn’t display many of the typical attachment disorder symptoms. She holds babies, loves animals, lets us snuggle her (in fact she demands this a lot more than our son, though it is usually on her terms & sometimes for unreasonable lengths of time). She says “I love you” unprovoked & really enjoys playing w/ other family members. The quickness & degree of anger, moodiness & stamina during outbursts is our major concerns. These are not your typical “terrible twos temper tantrums.”

So… what can we do to try & help our daughter w/ her anger & unreasonable demands? We’ve done time outs for a year when her hitting or screaming becomes unbearable. She used to sit in the same room w/ us, but lately we need to put her in her room for everyone’s sake. Now she throws things & hits walls & doors.

When we wait it out, the behavior will last 1-2 hrs. This may be wrong, but we often wait it out. We don’t want to have her controlling all of our lives & we keep thinking she’ll realize that nice behavior will get her farther in life than fits of rage – but it hasn’t been working. Before we see a therapist, do you have any tips for what we do???

Thank you so much for your help,
Dawn & Kurt

[jamie3]

You don't mention any type of counseling. Does she have a counselor? I think that is imperative in almost all situations like this.

Keep up the good fight.

[lucyjoy]

She needs a therapist familiar with attachment disorder and post institutionalized care.

Snuggling and cuddling on her terms is an attachment symptom-how does she react when it is on your terms?

Have you tried holding and rocking her while she's raging?(yes, this is very difficult and you will get bruised)

Have you tried keeping track of what happens before the rage or what she's eaten that day? Any patterns or is it just anytime she doesn't get what she wants?

YOu really do need to consult an attachment therapist.

[scooter71]

Thank you for your replies. We've contacted a source to get an attachment therapists name but we haven't met with anyone yet. We also have 3 attachment books on order that aren't here yet....

So we're just waiting and hoping that someone can provide advice for us until we get some "professional" answers.

How should you discipline a 2-1/2 year old child with attachment problems?

THANKS! This forum really does help.

Dawn & Kurt

[lucyjoy]

If it were me, personally, the child would be attached to me 24/7. I would carry her, sit on the floor with her, rock her, feed her, and sleep with her. If she were exhibiting behaviors I didn't like, I would hold her until she calmed down. I would playlots of music and talk to her in a soothing voice that remained calm when I was angry. Does she have any verbal skills? If she does, start teaching her to use her words-Mad, sad, happy. Use them for her until she is able. Sorry, not much help. This is really hard to do.

[scooter71]

Lucyjoy, this may sound crazy, but won't she be clingy and not independent someday if we hold her 24/7? It's hard because she weighs 32 lbs. and always wants you to stand up. Plus we have our son to give attention to as well.

A lot of people say just give her whatever she wants, it's just hard to spend so much time walking on eggshells trying to keep her happy...

[scooter71]

Oh and we tried holding her while she's raging and it just makes her madder. I held her firmly but gently for 1 hour one day and she never gave up screaming at me. I finally quit for the sake of my own sanity and her safety.... She doesn't want to be touched when she's mad.

[lucyjoy]

Of course she doesn't want to be touched when she's mad-that would be giving up control. You have to hold her throught the whole rage-but, if you're losing your patience, it's best to stop.

She will become clingy for a time until her attachment becomes solid. Wants she forms a solid attachment, she will develop her sense of independency on her own.

If you give her whatever she wants, she'll never attach as she will see you as week. You decide wether to sit or stand, not her.

Are there two of you? You may need to take turns so your other son doesn't get left out.

I did this with my four year old, although he slept in his own room and in six months he was fully attached.

Maybe you could try keeping her with you during the day and still putting her to bed a little earlier than your son to give him more one on one time.

This is really hard and takes 24/7 parenting. But, with the attachment therapist and the attachment parenting, it should get easier in a few months and altogether better in 6 months to a year for a child this young.

[sfbaymom2000]

lucyjoy - once again, your advice is so helpful! I have been wondering if it is ok to be holding M (almost 4 yrs) and carrying her so much. It feels like the right thing to do, but I had been worrying about her staying clingy forever and not gaining an appropriate independence. I agree with you reasoning.

Scooter - know what you mean about them being heavy. M is 38 pounds and I am not used to this! I already have a weak back that "goes out" sometimes, so I have to be very careful! I am starting to try and bring her to the couch when she wants to be held, rather than continue standing or walking too much. Good luck!

[jpk1]

I'm not sure if I can be of much help but I would like to offer a suggestion (we are going thru our own post adoption crisis with a 15 year old) What you describe is definitely due to trauma pre-adoption. It sounds like you are doing everything "right" and plus some. Have you found a post adoption specialist in your area yet? That is the real challenge. Four is still an early age for therapy (?) but that is one of the questions to ask. We have been finding out that trying to find a post adoption specialist attachment specialist is easier said than done.

[Just Julie]

Idea: For parents with weaker backs or with heavier/older children, call for snuggle time and hustle to a couch or bed before the child gets there so that he/she might climb onto you.

[Judilyn]

My 9 year old is RAD. IT's not too ealry to get your daughter to a therepist. My d's counselor see's kids pretty young.

About the tantrums. Have you tried redirection? I mean like getting her focused on soemthing else that relaxes her.

When my son was 2 until age 4 he threw the WORST tantrums. They would last forever. I read a book called. "Raisng Your Spirited Child" A guide for parents whose child is more intense and perceptive.

I had to find my son's outlet for relieving stress/anger. His were playdough and water. The kid was a prune he spent so much time in the tub. But it worked wonders.

I know another couple who used bubble wrap,LOL, but it worked wonders for their daughter. Popping the bubble wrap helped her relax.


I also had to spot my sons' triggers and move to intervien before he became expolsive and raging. NOw at the age od 14 he is getting better, with counseling, at doing this himself. (BTW, he is a possible bi-polor, we are awaitng the diagnosis)

Hang in there. It sounds like she has a good set of parents, who love her lots

[jamie3]

I am sure I won't be extremely popular for my opinion, but Clay was having tantrums that lasted well over an hour last summer. Eventually we started putting him on his bed and let him scream until he was through. We went in every 20 minutes or so and said, "Let me know when you are through and you can come out." It was hard on the whole family to listen to him for so long. Gradually the tantrums started getting shorter and he would call that he was "done" earlier each time. I can't remember the last time he had a fit even to a small degree. I know it has been months. There were times when dh had to encourage me to stay out, but it really did work.