[hopefuladoptee]

How long should you let a child pitch a fit? My son is almost 19 months old and has taken to quite lengthy fits. His babysitter says he pitches at least one a day and they last anywhere from an hour to two hours. The longest one we've seen at home has been 25 minutes. I really couldn't tell you what sets them off. The one that lasted 25 minutes seemed to have started because I gave him another hotdog. Both my kids are in hotdog or Vienna sausage only stages. They both wanted more and I only had 1 left so I cut it in half and gave each half. He looked at the hotdog on his plate and started screaming. After about 5 minutes, we let him down from the table where he immediately plopped on the floor and screamed for another 20 minutes. I finally went in the dining room, told him that was enough and put him back in his highchair. He quit screaming and ate but refused to look at me. I got so tickled at him trying to eat with his eyes closed (because he was mad at me and didn't want to look at me!). He ate fine and got down wanting a snack. This is a usual occurance so I got him some Chex Mix. This set him off again. I finally got his pacifier hoping something in his mouth would cut down on the screaming. The trick worked that time but not again. It's getting really bad and I feel so sorry for the poor babysitter. My child with attachment problems is starting to look like an angel compared to this one. Please help!!! Do I just let him do it and if yes, for how long?

[HappyMomAnna]

For a kid this age it can be so frustrating.... Our son is nearly three but he is also 10 months developmentally delayed and we do deal with these kinds of fits....

Some things to consider are that at this age communication can be so frustrating for a kid--they want you to know what they want when they want it! So it is important to decide if your child is having any delays in communication. Our son does and when we learned several signs things were easier for him.

Another thing I always look at is how is his sleeping pattern.... When our little guy refuses or has a very short nap--he seems to be doing OK---but, in reality he is so much more frustrated and melts down very easy--Often the issue is really the fact that he is simply too tired to function and it wouldn't matter if the Easter Bunny walked in the door he would melt no matter what!

Some of our children have a hard time in transitions... and cannot move from what they are doing to the next thing without help... This can also show up when they EXPECT something like a whole hotdog and are given a half---They had it in thier minds and the past experiences have proven Hot dogs come looking one way--How dare you break that picture in thier minds.... Last night our little guy got his toddler bed--after a week of him refusing the crib and insisting on sleeping under it---we got one of those Car beds and he helped set it up---well he thought it was pretty great before the mattress went down and he had his head fillied with the ideas of what he was getting--then he looked at the mattress and spent a half hour ripping the sheets off and trying to remove the matress--urggggggg--but ten mins later he jumped into bed and fell asleep with a smile on his face--Huh?

This is also an age where sensory issues start to show up and often our children melt down because the world is too much for them to deal with.... Learning about sensory and all the things little kids can have issues with sometimes shows us a key to what is triggering the melt downs...

............and then there are strong willed kids who just have fits because things don't go the way they want it....

...........we have been working on teaching our son to use a blanket with a sily trim and learn to self sooth...We started by wrapping him up in the blanket when he starts having a fit--and holding him and comforting him while he screamed bloody murder--eventually giving up and then we showed him to rub the trim between his finger and thumb....Now when he gets really mad I tell him to go get his mad blanket--and he does...It is sort of nice but I do hope he doesn't need it when he is a husband and father himself!

...........this is the age when the tantrums are normal. I would guess that the sitter is over estimating the times.... Personally. I would also bring her in on the things that you are trying to do to over come this...

.....and I do find them to be so cute when they are mad at me---right now our son seems to think if he covers his eyes and cannot see us--then we cannot see him it is so cute.

[hopefuladoptee]

I guess it's so frustrating because we're given advice that almost never matches with what someone else tells us. I've always been told to ignore a child who's been pitching a fit. You're saying to hold him while he's pitching the fit. We tried his pacifier one night and that worked but didn't work the next night. So far the only thing that's made him stop is giving in to him. That's probably a big part of it; I've stopped giving in to him. He's old enough to start learning right from wrong and that he can't always get his way.

I don't thing the babysitter is over estimating the fits. I usually get a full report from the older kids before I even get inside to her. The stories usually pretty much match. It's at least twice a day and usually an hour or more in length. The reason for those fits: she won't let him stand in the playroom and yell at the other kids. He goes in there, walks up to a kid and just starts screaming at him. They don't do anything to provoke him except possibly playing with a toy. How dare they?!

He sleeps 11 to 12 hours a night and takes a good 2 hour nap almost every day. He's getting plenty of sleep. He's usually ready for bed by 7 pm but we try to keep him playing and up until about 8 pm. It's usually more like 7:30 but as long as we can. He plays hard all day long. He is in perpetual motion from sun up to sun down. He knows a bunch of words but refuses to use them. No matter how many times I say "eat" for food he just points and waits. He is starting to get a little better about using words but he is a stubborn one. We adopted him at birth through an extremely open adoption. His natural grandmother says most of her other grandchildren are extremely strong willed. Our foster (almost adopted) daughter is extremely strong willed too. We have fun on the weekends let me tell you. I don't think he delayed in any respect. He's been pretty much on schedule with all his firsts. I really guess it's mostly being stubborn and all the sudden not getting his way anyway. I've just never seen one pitch a fit for that length of time. I'll try to come up with something he can hold to see if that helps. It may also help with my daughter.

My son must think just like yours. He closes his eyes when he gets mad at you and refuses to open them. Isn't that so funny? I guess they get the idea from playing peak-a-boo. He did it to my uncle the other night and all my uncle did was say "Hi." I don't blame him too much though - I'm not crazy about my uncle myself. My family thinks I'm crazy when I tell them about what both my kids do. They don't usually get to see them act that way. They got a very small taste of my son the other night and thought that was bad enough. If only they knew!!!

[HappyMomAnna]

I think we are in a unique situation because we have adopted our children and we always have that on the back of our mind....

Typically the advice is to ignor the tantrums and hope they go away....but, because our little ones have had broken bonds we need to be sure they feel safe when we ignor them....so it is a catch22 and I take the attitude of first being sure the attachment is secure then ignor it all.... Our 6 1/2 year old have tantrums that last 6 hours and for the first year we didn't ignor--now we do...knowing that we have done all we can with attachment.

I was instructed by the therapist to give our little guy time to feel safe to have his fits and help him find skills to self sooth... The is a book titled HOLDING TIME (can't remember who wrote it) which was great advice for us.... as time has gone by we have learned to decide which fits are his need to attach and which are normal 2 year old stuff....

I was hoping more people would post here!!!!

[hopefuladoptee]

I don't think we have any attachment problems with him. I was in the delivery room when he was born and he went home with us. He really doesn't understand that he has 2 mommies. He actually cries when his birth mom comes to see him. Of course he cries when anyone does because he's worried I'm leaving and this is the babysitter. My 3 year old has even started doing the same thing. She's actually regressed from about a year of improvement. And all it took was one afternoon of having a babysitter. I guess my son is just at the age when he wants his mommy or daddy around 24/7.

We've had several foster children around this age but he is the worst one I've seen. He certainly is the most stubborn child I've ever seen. If he's not ready to eat, he won't eat. If he's not ready for bed, forget about it. If he doesn't want to help clean up the toys, there's no getting him to. I've heard of parents who dealt with kids like him but I was "never going to have a child who acted like that." Yeah, right! And my family won't let me forget how often I used to say that. I just tell my sister to watch how much she picks on me if she's thinking of having any and remember what she was like as a kid. You reap what you sow. I sure am!!!

I guess no one has trouble with their child pitching fits for any length of time, huh?

[aud61]

When my daughter was around 3 she began having complete hysterical fits I mean the works screaming crying you name it.I was never sure what was going to set her off.The only thing that seemed to work with her was to wrap her up as tight as I could ina blanket or towel or what ever happened to be handy like you would swaddle an infant then I would lay down and lay partially on her with just enough pressure so she couldn't squirm away and usually within a few minutes the tantrum would downgrade to hiccups and then she would softly say I love you mommy and that would be the end of it.I think it was almost a year before she finally stopped having these tantrums.We tried everthing ignoring it,talking,and this was the only thing that would work.

[L-A-J-C-R-C]

Our daughter has behaviors like this (rages). She is being referred for testing for an attachment disorder (I know you said this isn't your issue). She has done this since being placed with us when she was 13 mo. old (2 years UGH). We HAVE to ignore this behavior, if we hold her and try to comfort her it gets worse and lasts much longer.

I'll have to follow this thread and see if I can get any ideas to help her.

Michelle

[hopefuladoptee]

I do have a 3 1/2 year old who has been diagnosed with RAD. We're starting Tuesday on our 3rd doctor. The first one diagnosed her but wouldn't treat it; the second one said she didn't have RAD but was extemely stubborn. I've never seen a stubborn child (whether extreme or not) hurt themselves like she does when she's mad. And I've never been scared of what a child might do to me before her. This doctor specializes in all types of disorders in children so I'm really hoping he will be the "one." Anyway, sometimes I wonder if my son isn't seeing what she's doing and copying her. He copies almost everything else she does so why not the rages. And he tries to poke his eyes out and pull his eyelashes out. The fits haven't been that bad this week so far (knock on wood!). He deifinitely is a stubborn one though. I have tried holding my daughter like that and it didn't work too well for me either. We both came away with bruises - mine from her fighting against me and hers from me fighting to keep her in my grasp. It wasn't pretty and didn't seem to lessen the length of them. Maybe I will learn some things in therapy with her that will help me with him. I'll let y'all know what I learn from a "professional" so maybe we'll all know how it's supposed to be done .

[L-A-J-C-R-C]

Thanks Hopeful. I'd appreciate any insight the "professionals" can give you. We're having trouble finding a specialist in our area. I'm still waiting (almost 2 months now) for our doctor to locate one to send us to.

Michelle

[hopefuladoptee]

I've found plenty of doctors who will treat my daughter. My problem is finding one willing to work around my schedule. I don't have a very understanding boss when it comes to time off. He SAYS to take all the time I need but what he really means is take it if you have the vacation time to cover it or you just don't get paid. I can't afford to take 3 or 4 hours a week off without pay and would very quickly go through my vacation time otherwise. Finally though, I found someone willing to stay late and see us. I was so excited that I scheduled the first appointment on my mom's b'day! She said she completely understood though. Didn't bother me too much because she was gone on my b'day.

Keep the ideas coming and I'll talk to the doctor about all the ideas I've gotten!

[N.Gwinn]

There are so many things to keep in mind. Every child is differnt and needs to be treated differently. I do have one suggestion to try. It works for me in my classroom with lots of kids. (I'm a kindergarten teacher and hopefully will be a parent soon.)

The motto is "Outlast the acting out". However you handle the actual fit to get through it is probably OK. You can ignore it, or you can redirct the child by distracting him. Both ways are common and acceptable. Here is the big thing that no one has talked about yet. Once the fit is done.......... completely done and the kid is rational again........ you need to go back to the misbehavior and act it out with good behaviors instead. So, you would take your kid back to the table. You would put his empty plate back in front of him. You would ask him questions like, "What was the problem that made you upset? You wanted another hotdog, right? I gave you a half. Why did I do that? How should you have responded? Let's practice saying thank you. Wouldn't that have worked better? Very good sweetheart. I love you." Always end on a positive note. Some kids, when you bring them back to the misbehavior, get themselves back into 'fit' mode. When they do this, you simply say, "Oh, you are not ready to talk. Goodbye. We will talk later." You keep this up until you have outlasted their acting out. You must be more stubborn than they are on this point. Don't let them out of examining their own behavoir.

This is how you teach your child a new way to respond to a frustration. When your kid only knows one way to solve a problem, that is how s/he solves it. So, you are teaching a new way. It takes lots of these practices before the child starts to use them during emotional times, but it does start to transfer, so be patient and consistent.

And remember, the first thing you are going to teach your child is that you are not going to blow off, ignore, and let your kid get away with the fit. The tantrumming may actually increase for a short amount of time before it begins to decrease becasue you changed the rules and your child is no longer getting away with it. Stay strong, and outlast the acting out.

[L-A-J-C-R-C]

Hi N.Gwinn,

That's a great idea, I will definitely try it. Do you think it would work for children not school age?

I'll let you know how it works with our dd! Not too hopeful but I'm willing to try anything.

Michelle

[N.Gwinn]

Hi Michelle,
If your child is old enough to understand basic sentences that s/he hears and to use several of his/her own words, then this is a good method to start using. Remember to talk at the child's level of understanding. Keep it simple.

A lot of stuff that seems so obvious and natural to adults is not obvious and does not come naturally to kids. They need direct teaching instruction. A lot of kids don't just 'get it'.

Keep me posted and I'll keep watching. This kind of stuff is really interesting to me.

Behavior management and modification are things that I spent a lot of extra time learning about when I first started teaching because I was so cruddy at it. Life is sooooo much easier now that I know how to turn those bad behaviors into learning experiences for the kids.

Nancy

[mallory4]

I see this is an older post but I had to respond since your guy sounds a lot like my daughter at that age. She is bio, now 11 years old and a wonderful, wonderful agreeable child. Your post made me think back to her worst tantrum ever, which began when I handed her an apple I HAD PEELED THE WRONG WAY!

Back in those days, she too slept 12 hours a night and had a 2 hour nap, and was on the go the rest of the time. When she got upset, she would cry and scream for an hour or two easily, sometimes 2 or 3x per day. I tried ignoring it, I NEVER gave in, I tried time out as she got old enough to understand it, and it didn't go away...

By age 2 she was highly verbal, and would scream things like "Mommies who love their children don't treat them this way!!!!!!!!!!" when I had told her to sit by herself until she could stop screaming.

We lived in a townhouse, you can imagine how embarassed I was in front of the neighbors who heard it all through the walls.

What helped the behavior end was reversing my tactics. My daughter simply did not have the skills to bring herself "back down" once she was very upset. After reading "Raising you Spirited Child" by Mary Kurcinka, (which was recommended to me by an experienced child care provider after spending 1/2 an hour with my plays hard/sleeps hard kid), I tried holding and cuddling my daughter if she would let me while she was upset.

The tantrums were rapidly eliminated, and she learned that for her, getting hugs or cuddles is what makes her feel better when she is too wound-up or upset. Even now, at 11, she will say "I need a hug" or "I need cuddles" if she is nervous or upset.

She isn't spoiled, she doesn't run the house with tantrums (which were my fears when I first read about handling tantrums this way) and she is not picky about how her apples are peeled She IS a person who knows about herself and what makes her too wound up, and who now knows how to bring herself back down (wrap up in a quilt and rock in a rocker while reading or listening to a story on tape), if mom or dad's lap is not available.

It turns out she has a few sensory issues, and before she was able to express herself, I didn't know how much busyness and unpredictability bothered her.

I would urge anyone with a supertantrum kid to read that book and see if they recognize their little fireball. Also, there are a lot of chemicals in hotdogs and vienna sausages which many kids are very sensitive to (I am one of them) and they can lead to behavior you otherwise would not see. Even in us grownups!

Hope things are better, and you find what works best for your child and your family. Peace, Mal

[hopefuladoptee]

Those horrible fits only lasted a few weeks. I guess it was a stage or a test. Obviously he figured out he wasn't getting anywhere though because he quit. He does still plop down on the floor if you offer him the wrong snack but nothing like what it was when I originally posted. He will throw things at us if he gets mad and routinely throws his cup when he's done with it. It upsets him to no end for you to take his cup away when he throws it like that. He will NOT be redirected; he just wants the cup back. We did a very open adoption and spend time with his bio family. His cousins are the same way. Their mom always seems so frustrated. We're just praying we'll be able to overcome what seems to be an inherited problem. I guess tempers can run in families!

I never knew that about hot dogs and Vienna's. I have started putting my foot down about those foods though. My oldest was the problem. She pitches fits so bad that you would just rather give in to some things than listen to it. We've learned to not make food an issue and she was trying to make it one. I would just give both of them hot dogs or whatever to keep her quiet. That ended about two weeks ago. Now you eat what moma cooks or you don't eat. So far it's working great. She tested me the first night and I stuck to my guns - she ended up going back and eating her supper so she could have a snack. She still gets in the car and tells me she wants hot dogs for supper but I just tell her we're not having that tonight or that we're out . My little one will eat almost anything you put in front of him except veggies. Looking at his bio family, we're hoping for a pro football player so we can retire early. His feet are already as big as my 4-year old's and he eats non-stop.

Thanks for the info. I may read the book just in case. I am going Monday to talk to a psychologist who tested my little girl last year to see what can be done about her. Maybe I'll learn some things in her therapy that will work for him too. She has a diagnosis of RAD but it's not as extreme as it was when she first came to live with us. Some of her symptoms are intensified though because she's started 3-year old PreK and it's during nap time. She really needs that nap to keep her in a semi-decent mood until bedtime. She refuses to take a nap after school and I guess the babysitter just doesn't want to push the issue with her. Anyway thanks for you post. It always helps to know you're not the only one out there.