[Kathy]

Hi All. It's my understanding that most baby boys in Panama are not circumcised. Has anyone thought about whether or not they will have the procedure done on their adopted baby boy when they bring him home? We just learned this (after reading a thread on the Guatemala forum), so are starting to think through it. Of course, he would be older than babies who get circumcised here, so don't know how that would play into it. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?? Thanks!

[sak9645]

...are not circumcised. People in most foreign countries don't routinely circumcise their male children. Americans are unique in their advocacy of routine circumcision.

Americans used to believe that circumcision was the healthy way to go. Nowadays, however, the American Academy of Pediatrics no longer recommends circumcision, except in cases where a family's religious or cultural background supports it, or when there is a specific medical reason for it.

Jewish law mandates religious circumcision of sons, so practicing Jews will always do this. But for most people, it's simply a matter of personal preference.

Most American families still circumcise sons, at this time. They feel that they want their boys to "look like Daddy" and not to get teased in the boys' locker room when they are older.

But there are some very strong anti-circumcision advocacy groups springing up. These groups tend to believe that natural is better, and that circumcision is simply "genital mutilation.'

Children adopted internationally generally come home when they are no longer newborns. As a result, circumcision must generally be done in a hospital or surgery center, under general anesthetic.


Sharon

[spaypets]

It is my understanding that the wives of uncircumcised men have a higher rate of cervical cancer than the wives of circumcised men.

It's something to think about.

[spaypets]

I think now would be a good time to explain to those who may not know that to Jews circumcision is sacred. It is the convenant with G-d and is part of the foundation of observance. Indeed, what separated the early Christians and made them something other than a branch of Judiaism was Paul's (I think it was Paul) declaration that converts to Christianity didn't need to be circumcised. Once that happened they ceased to be Jews.

While, if you are not Jewish, deciding to circumcise your son is a personal decision, I thought I should explain how important it is to our foundation of belief before people who are anti-circumcision go off half-cocked (you'll excuse the pun!) and say things that could be interpreted as religiously offensive.

It is one thing to say it isn't necessary for your son, it is quite another to call a sacred act derogatory names. No one has done that yet, but I wanted to prevent a religious argument.

[reb621]

Spaypets,
My remarks and referenced sites are intended only for Christian or nonreligious families. I realize, as Sharon also posted, that for those of the Jewish faith, this is a sacred act, and therefore, cannot be questioned.

However, adoptive families of other faiths may wish to learn of the history of circumcision here in the U.S. when deciding whether or not to circumcize their sons, since circumcision for them is merely cultural or traditional, rather than sacred.

Rebecca

[BrandyHagz]

Please don’t place URL’s on the site that you wouldn’t want your eight year old to see. I edited a URL because the site itself is offensive…please don’t put it back a second time.

[spaypets]

Rebecca,
I didn't click on the links in your post, so my post wasn't directly related to them and I didn't think you'd said anything inappropriate. I just know the tone that discussion on this matter can take and I wanted to point out in case anyone was tempted to use such terms as barbaric, etc., that those terms would be deeply offensive to those of us who consider circumcision a sacred act.

I certainly am not here to sway anyone's decision on such a personal matter. I just wanted to keep the discussion from getting too emotional.

[spaypets]

From the New England Journal of Medicine 4/11/02:

Conclusions Male circumcision is associated with a reduced risk of penile HPV infection and, in the case of men with a history of multiple sexual partners, a reduced risk of cervical cancer in their current female partners.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/...ct/346/15/1105

Of course this isn't an issue if the man is celibate until he is married. HPV is a sexually transmitted disease.

[whoownsthis]

Parents,
If you might be faced with this decision, and your faith does not tell you how to proceed, please do some research.

Just go to Google or Yahoo and type in "routine infant male circum..." (with the whole word) to read the pros/cons, areas of the world where this is practiced, religious and cultural traditions, etc.

Good luck with this decision.

Rebecca

[qs mom]

I just want to say that it is a choice that must be made by the parents, unless it is part of your religion.

I also made some inquiries when adopting my son. However i posted the question to list serve goup that I belong to and was lucky enough to receive alot of well thought out responses - both pro and con.

Now, my son was not circumcised when I brought him home. I am a single parent of a Christian faith. So, my faith didn't play into my decision. I had many, many people tell me that I should have it done. And I truly considered it.

But, I've read of female circumcision (which is also cultural and religious in some countries) and I am truly against that, so I couldn't help but think the same way towards male circumcision.

But I still remained open to it. So when I visited my ped. with my son the first time, I asked about it. Thankfully, she was great. She asked what I thought. I've heard of other people docs trying to influence their decision. Anyway, she gave my son the once over, told me that there was no sign of infection, his penis looked healthy and that if I wanted to do it, she told me what would be involved.

That would be a pediatric urologist, anesthesia, surgery and possibly a hospital stay along with all of the other risks that come with being under anesthesia. I couldn't bring myself to put my 3 year old son through this.

I researched and reviewed tons of info, tons of opinions and it came down to me being the one to make the decision.

It is up to you and your husband, if you have one. (as I mentioned, I do not) Research, listen and go with your gut.

Just a word of caution . . . there a fanatics on both sides of this issue, trust me, I've run into a few - cut them off. If these people are going try to make a point to you by bashing someone else's opinion, you don't need to hear what they have to say.

I'm not saying this to offend anyone. I haven't read anything here that I would call a fanatic.

[BrandyHagz]

Kim,

I am deleting your posts because my decision to ban a member is not open for discussion. If you would like to discuss the mater in private, feel free to contact me OFF SITE via my email address.

I have discussed this issue with the member, and given her appropriate means in which to lodge a complaint against me, should she feel it is her God given right to post URL’s do such disgusting websites in a public forum where members under the age of consent often post.

Again, feel free to contact me via private message, or email BrandyHagz@comcast.net

[Mom2J]

Our adopted son is from Panama and wasn't circumcised. It wasn't an issue with us about whether he "looked like Daddy" or not. (Daddy happens to be 6'5", dark hair, fair skinned and blue-eyed.) It was for medical reasons, that I won't get into now. Let's just say, it was extremely painful for him and if there wasn't a medical reason, we would have NEVER had it done. The poor little guy would scream and scream everytime he used the bathroom or we would change his diaper. It was horrible.

We have legal custody of a relatives child now and he's not circumcised. We won't be having it done unless medically necessary.

[Zach'sMommy]

I had my son circumcised just about 1 1/2 weeks ago. I won't go into why, as it is a personal decision each parent should make. His stitches have all come out, and he is doing just fine. He never had any pain. We had the surgery at 7:30am one morning and by 6pm that night, he was up playing, and back to his normal self. The doctor gave us some pain medicine that kept him from having any pain at all, and it also did not seem to slow him down. He is 18 months old.

It was day surgery. We went in 6am, and were home by 1pm. He had a small bandage for a couple of days, and then it fell off. For about 7 days, he had stitches, and they have since come out.

So, my point it, in my experience with my son, everything went perfectly fine, and he is ok.

[hipretty]

...Female "Circumcision" is not exactly an accurate analogy for that so called "religious or cultural act".


No matter how popular or acceptable the expression "Female "Circumcision" has become for the act of removal of a women's organs, it is not analagous to Male Circumcision which is removal of the foreskin leaving the sexual organ intact.

Female circumcision is mutilation, removing the sexual organ of the women, NOT the hood (equivalent to the foreskin) that covers it! If this was truly a circumcision then the organ would be more EXposed NOT EXcised!!!

This act is to render a women asexual to keep them subservient to men, and Castration is more of an accurate description of what those women endure.

In circumcision, I do not believe the end of the means is ever degradation, or emotional and physical oppression of the male circumcised. Which cannot be said for Female Castration going by the name of Female circumcision by most of the populace! My desire is that women start calling it by what it truly is, Female Castration not circumcision. Then perhaps the rest of the world would take notice. Using those 2 as a comparison, in an attempt to defend your right not to circumcise is, rediculous, they are not even on the same page.


You know what? Yes Jews circumcise, Jesus was circumcised. In my opinion...That's good enough for me!

Love & Light, Tee

[whoownsthis]

Dear Tee,
I have reported your post to the moderator, because it is obvious that you are just trying to stir the pot here on the Panama forum.

This has been a dead issue for quite a while on our board. And since most of us have waited on an adoption referral for up to a year or more, we don't have the energy or patience to debate this with you.

If you are trying to adopt from Panama, you are welcome to stay. Otherwise, please don't infect our forum with your hostility.

Thank you,
Rebecca