[Rocket1]

Hi, I am new to the forum. Maybe someone can give some guidance to our situation. My wife and I are in process of adopting her Niece(5 years old) & Nephew(1 year old) from the Philippines. We have already completed our adoption court appearance in the Philippines and the adoption is in proceeding for the final judgement. I am a US citizen and my wife is Filipino. I am well aware of the I-600 form for US immigration needed to bring the children home to the US. The issue is that the childrens parents are both still alive and the reason why we are adopting them is because they are not financially able to support them. The parents have turned the children over to the grand parents for support but have not technically abandoned them. I am wondering how this will affect the I-600 processing. If there is anyone with some advice on how to proceed, my wife & I would very much appreciate it. Thanks!

[paperchasingmom]

Welcome to the Boards!!!

Congratulations on you and your wife's upcoming plan to adopt! I know it is a very exciting, trying time.....

I would like to suggest to you that you QUICKLY notify the Inter-Country Adoption Board based in the Philippines, known as the ICAB. They can help you tremendously through this process and from what I know THEY ARE THE ONES THAT NEED TO HELP YOU....

We too tried to go through the Philippine court system and were on our way over to adopt a non-relative baby girl and I found out about this ''ICAB".....unfortunately, our attorney in the Philippines had never heard of them and he had started our process through the court system there....but ALL INTER-C0UNTRY ADOPTIONS go through this ICAB area......

Domestic adoptions go through the court system--meaning that you reside in the Philippines and you want to adopt from the Philippines, but inter-country adoptions go through the ICAB and their process....meaning that you reside OUTSIDE the Philippines and you want to adopt from the Philippines...that would be an inter-country adoption--one country to the next....

We've been told of horror stories where U.S. citizens residing in the United States have gone over to the Philippines, had their intercountry adoptions "approved" by the local courts there, but when they tried to leave the country, the embassy and the child's passports and visa's WERE NOT GRANTED, because the adoption was not legal or recognized.....since it didn't go through the inter-country adoption board....this might not be your case, but I would highly suggest you quickly contact the ICAB and review their website and call them or email them....

I don't wish to scare you, but just to educate you since this was the same road we were on (but a non-relative child) and now we're having to backtrack and go through the ICAB.....because the way that the attorney in the Philippines was trying to do it, (through the local courts) this was illegal for inter-country adoptions and we never would have been able to leave the country and return to the United States with our child....we were devastated and horrified!!!!

That was just our particular situation....hope this helps (I know it doesn't help, or make you feel good, but...) I would just want you to have the best help available and the ICAB would provide that....

I will write back with their website address.....

Blessings to you and your family,

Melody

[paperchasingmom]

www.skyinet.net/~icaba/

This has alot of good information on it....also at the bottom is the ICAB's email address where you can email them your specifics and they will email you back within a week or two or you can call them....remember, they're 12 hours ahead of us....

There's also a couple of other good threads with good information on them....one is titled new and need advice...there's alot of good information on that thread too...

Best of blessings to you and your wife,

Melody

[LindaO]

There are two issues involved in the adoption of a PI relative's child by a US citizen.

First issue is that the US gov (BCIS) has very strict rules to define "an orphan." If a child has known living family they are NOT an orphan. So, you may get your I600a approved, but when you later file the I600 (this has the child's name & info) at the US Embassy in the child's country, you will not receive permission to adopt that child because of lack of supporting documents.

So, secondly, the US requires much paperwork from the child's country to show that every avenue has been pursued and every effort has been made to keep this child in his/her country. ie: a child is found abandoned.....they must run ads in the paper over a period of time. If anyone thinks they know the child and where he came from, then local sw must visit that community searching for a relative.

This is where ICAB will be helpful. They will initiate that a local SW thru PI Dept of Soc Welfare (DSWD) become involved to interview, get releases of parents, court dates, obtain new birth certificate, etc, etc....

Remembering that PI is not "gotta do it today" as the US is, well, expect up to two years. Much relies on how quickly the PI local sw handles the paperwork and filings.

However, two years can be normal time for many adoptions from start to finish. And if you really want to parent that child, well, it will probably become a reality!

Linda

[Rocket1]

Thank you so much for the info. Melody & Linda!!! I will definitely ask our Philippine Attorney & Social Worker if they are going through ICAB. I have looked up ICAB's website and found a lot of helpful info. there to explore so I can ask the right questions. Since I am a US citizen, my wife is Filipino and is the relative to the children, would it be easier and faster for us to bring the kids to the US as US Residents, then process the US Immigration later??? Melody, if you read this, were you able to bring your child from the PI?? If so, how did you do it?? My biggest concern is that the children really don't fit the Orphan category and I will not be able to get a US Visa to enter the US. I don't want to process the I-600A and then get denied on the I-600 later because they don't exactly fit the Orphan category. Our PI Social Worker did run the Newspaper Ad for 3 consecutive weeks, we have the release of the children from thier parents and the courts are changing the kids name on their birth certificates. The issue I have is how to bring the children home to the US. That is my roadblock. I'm just not sure which way to pursue. Any more info. is much appreciated again, you are God-Sends!!!!Thank You..

[paperchasingmom]

I hope your Philippine attorney ISN'T Reynaldo Bernardo....he was our Philippine attorney that "seemed" nice, did alot for us even without being paid, "seemed" knowledgeable, professed to be a christian, so my husband and I hired him, paid him in full and now he's vanished.....

You have to understand that the U.S. ALSO HAS REQUIREMENTS FOR ADOPTIONS, and specific requirements when adopting children from other countries and Linda touched on this....It is imperative that these children be deemed orphans or else the United States won't allow them into our country or be recognized as citizens....

It's not just will the Philippines release these children BUT ALSO, WILL THE U.S. LET THEM IN....

Again, not wanting to scare you, BUT TO HELP YOU!!! My husband and I literally, I hate to say this, but we've been put through hell, total hell, being told we can adopt this baby girl, only to make arrangements to travel and then find out about this ICAB and realize that if this adoption is not done legally, through them, it is deemed an illegal adoption which can result in being imprisoned for six years!!!! Again, that terrified us, thinking that not only could we go over there and NOT bring our baby daughter home, but that we could be IMPRISONED!!! You can't imagine the hell we've gone through.....

BUT, THE GOOD NEWS FOR YOU IS, your wife is RELATED to these children, SO IT CAN BE DONE....you just need to make sure it's done right....typically, the Philippines DOES NOT ALLOW ADOPTIONS OF NON-RELATIVE "PRE-IDENTIFIED" child adoptions....BUT IN YOUR CASE, THIS IS A "RELATIVE" PRE-IDENTIFIED CHILD, SO IT CAN, CAN, CAN, CAN, CAN BE DONE, IF THE PAPERWORK IS PROCESSED CORRECTLY.....

So take a deep breath, all will be well, go through the ICAB, call some agencies here in the U.S., like Holt International or Wide Horizon's International Adoption Agencies (you can find them on the web...) and you can make sure that the way everyone is doing this, is the right, thorough way....okay????

Again, I don't mean to scare you, just spare you from what my husband and I have gone through....

Unfortunately, our case is different, we are NOT related to this baby we are trying to adopt, so our process, unfortunately, looks grim, BUT, we believe God will prevail and all will be well....so, if you could keep us in your prayers we would greatly appreciate it....as we will keep you in ours...

Again, you should be okay, providing that all the necessary, correct, entities are involved and clear this, okay? Don't worry, just be glad you found this board and found out about the ICAB....

Feel free to write anytime.....I'm more than glad to help....

Just to let you know, we have not been granted custody of the baby we were told we could adopt and it's been 5 months now....we are now having to backtrack and go through the ICAB and hopefully, their hearts will be opened and will allow this exception....

You may still have to go through a homestudy and everything else too....check with Wide Horizons or Holt International or Pearl S. Buck or Hand in Hand International Adoption Agencies....they are a plethora of knowledge.....and will assist you greatly.

Write back if you have any more questions....

Blessings,

Melody

[Rocket1]

Thank you again Melody for your help...I will pray for you that everything will work out for you & your husband. I'm sure you will be the best parents for that baby girl, don't give up. In my case, I know the adoption will go through ok because my wife is related, It is the issue with the US Immigration requirements for these children to be orphans. My Attorney is not Reynaldo Bernardo thank god...That is terrible what he did to you guy's. He will be punished for his actions in many other ways. I will contact my Social Worker in the Philippines this weekend to find out if they are proceeding through ICAB for this adoption. It sounds like they are, but they just may have not mentioned that to me. My wife & I really want to bring the kids home to the US ASAP. If there is a way since they are related to my wife to bring them here and process all the US Immigration later, that's what I am trying to find out. They need our care ASAP. Thank you for your continued information and I will let you know what I find out in the next few days. Thanks and God Bless!!!
-Rick

[johnny]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum, but I am going through the local or domestic process in the Philippines. My wife is Filipina and I am an American with Filipino ancestry.

I have heard and read some postings that the US Embassy has rejected some local/domestic adoptions deemed as "Illegal". I don't believe that! I think there is some confusion about what the rules are. The problem is the US Embassy won't/can't issue a visa or admit a newly adopted child unless the two-year co-residency requirement has been met by the adoptive parent(s). Yes, for this requirement to be met the adoption or guardianship must be court approved i.e. "legal". It is not illegal to adopt in the Philippines an identified child. You can be an alien, but you have to meet the residency requirements of the legal system and home study requirements of the DSWD.

ICAB will assist with Inter-Country adoptions of non-orphans where you are related to the child within the four-degree, which allows for the waver of Philippine residency requirements. ICAB is the link for home study between countries. As with our child, in the Philippines, a child is not qualified for international adoption unless he/she is related within the fourth degree or is an orphan. I don't know if there are any exceptions and if there are it needs a lawyer to emphasize the relationship to get approved.

What is difficult for me to understand is why the Embassy in Manila is so unfriendly and can't seem to make the rules easy to understand for adoptive parents. This is discouraging and isn’t in the best interest of the child.


HTH,

Johnny

[paperchasingmom]

Again, just to reiterate, the ICAB is THE Central Authority on inter-country adoptions for EITHER relative or non-relative international adoptions--meaning that you reside permanently somewhere else OTHER than the Philippines and you're trying to adopt a child from the Philippines, relative OR non-relative....

Any other way of trying to do an inter-country adoption (from one country to another) is incorrect and to go through the domestic courts will be wrong from what we've encountered. It's not the issue of just the "residency requirement" that would be waived, that you suggested, BUT, it's a matter that the embassy will see that this Philippine child is trying to leave the country and if they see that the ICAB has NOT approved or granted this adoption, they will not grant the visa or passport....from what we've encountered....

And trust me, we've spent the last 7 months doing EVERYTHING we possibly could to try to find out WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY to do this.....

So again, I would just highly suggest that you take the time to look at the ICAB'S website that's listed in my earlier post, CALL THEM, email them, CALL THE EMBASSY, if possible to confirm this....

The bad thing is, the local courts there in the Philippines, they WILL approve these adoptions and it's ludicrous because the attorneys and the judges know that we're foreigners and knowing full well we'll then go to the Embassy to try to get the passports and visa's at that time, so we could leave with our newly adopted children, leave to bring them home to the United States, only then to have them denied, NOT because of the residency rule, BUT also for the mere fact that ALL inter-country adoptions HAVE to be approved by the Inter-Country Adoption Board, the ICAB....this is part of the Hague Treaty.....

So please, don't get confused or dissuaded by this BECAUSE the local attorneys will tell you it's okay BUT the Embassy then will not because the adoption is not considered legal due to the fact, again, it did not go through the ICAB....to go through the court system is to do a "domestic" adoption, meaning that you reside in the Philippines and you want to adopt a child from the Philippines and you plan to stay living in the Philippines....

I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but just to truly express how important this is....and not wish this situation, that we're still in, we wouldn't wish this on anyone.....

Please look at the ICAB'S website thoroughly and notify them and notify the Embassy regarding your inter-country adoption.....

Also, the part where the parents are living, that's not a problem, they don't need to be deceased, they can just be not able to properly parent the child and then voluntarily surrender them to the DSWD for adoption to you and your family....

It is a long process, but it's because the Philippines want to make sure everything is correct....

I hope everyone's adoptions are granted. Blessings to all!!!

Melody

[johnny]

I'm sorry that you took my post the wrong way... please re-read my post so that you might better understand it more completely.

Rick should be able to complete thier adoption process correctly with the assistance of ICAB because you have given him good advise.

It sounds like your case and our case are similar, with one exception. You appear in your post not to be a resident of the Philippines. As I posted, our son is not quailified for International adoption so the only way we could adopt "legally" is to use the domestic process. This does not involve ICAB as a facilitator for home study requirements but involves the DSWD. (I wish it did, then our son would have been qualified.)

To adopt locally the rules say you have to be resident in the Philippines for 3 years before you can file an adoption petition. It should take anywhere from 6 months to 3 years to get through the local courts depending on your processing and the court's schedule. Once you have a final decree from the court and have met the two-year co-residency requirement then your child will be reconized as such. Your child and you can file the I-130 petition or under the new Child Act of 2000 simply apply for US Citizenship. This does not apply to Rick's case because they can get the residency requirement waved.

If your case was approved by the local court without the above 3 year residency requirement having been met, (assuming you are not resident) then I can understand why it was deemed "Illegal". because ICAB was not involved to coordinate the home study between the DSWD and your home state.

I think the Hague rules are there to protect the children. I can't argrue against those rules. I can argue my feelings that the US Embassy seems to have a past policy of discourgement and this does not appear to always reflect the best intrest of the child being adopted and I think it actually encourges mis-information.

In my opinion the childs intrest would be better served if they worked on better informing adoptive parents rather than a stone wall approach. At least this is the attitude we have received from the embassy.

I pray that God will open a door for you and your husband the way God has done for us and it looks like with ICAB's help you may have a way.

It has been a stressful journey for us and is currently becoming more so because we are still not finished.


Johnny.....

[LindaO]

"Pre-Adoption Review of Orphan Status"

"Last year a number of American families were refused visas to bring their recently adopted Cam-bodian and Vietnamese children back to the U.S. when U.S. Embassy officials determined that the children did not meet the required “orphan” definition. In an attempt to prevent similar situations, the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (BCIS) has announced an optional pilot program to give adopting parents a pre-travel determination of whether the child they plan to adopt will qualify as an orphan. The program is available only for adoptions from Haiti, Honduras, Philippines, Poland, and Sierra Leone. Full information is posted at:
www.immigration.gov/graphics/services/index2.htm "

The above info is located at: http://www.adoptivefamilies.com/articles.php?aid=536

[johnny]

Hi Linda.

It reinforceses my feelings and thoughts that the immigration counsel's advise is out of scope.

The link you provided is excellent and is helping me to find help.

Thank you!

Johnny

[RenaPCruz]

Thank you for your private message.

I used this linked, because it's always kicking me out of the system. Thank you that you still remember me.

About my orphans niece and nephews that I'm adopting, we already started our homestudy last Oct 1 and our social worker promised us that she will try to finish it this Jan.

We turned in our I600A application and we are ready to do our finger printing next week. I know we are getting more excited.

I think after the INS reviews our homestudy and the finger printing is cleared, our agency will pass it to ICAB ( a filipino liason will do the presentation of our case, the child study report and our homestudy plus Dozzier).

Let's say we have a positive outcome from the board. ICAB will prepare a legal papers of the children. That paper works coming from ICAB stating what is the situation of the children, and then, we will attach it with I600 form and apply here in the states. If then approve, INS here will wire in to US Embassy in Manila, then the children will do the medical and interview.

We are just anticipating to travel by June.

Thank you again
Rena
(Child Study report was done from Feb 14 '03-Aug 28 '03, and this was our first step)

*Jonny I think you are in the right track.

A piece of advise to everybody, if you are adopting from the Philippines, orphans, non orphans, relative or non relative they need to start or talk to somebody from ICAB. Everybody has a unique circumstances.

For additional info, please check this website of US Embassy in Manila
http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/rp1/wwwhadop.html

[sak9645]

... you have a serious problem.

Even if you complete a totally legal adoption in a country, the U.S. will NOT issue an adoption visa to a child if he/she does not meet the "orphan definition" outlined in the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act. A child who has been living with two married parents is not an orphan under the Act. In most cases, you would have to live overseas with the child before he/she qualifies for a regular visa, since he/she does not qualify for an adoption visa.

Your best bet is to consult an immigration attorney in the U.S. to see if anything can be done.

Sharon

[paperchasingmom]

Hi Rena,


I did clean out my forums mailbox so I can receive new messages....sorry about that....

Melody

P.S. What Rena says is correct. Anyone wishing, WHILE RESIDING OUTSIDE THE PHILIPPINES, wishing to adopt a child WHO RESIDES INSIDE the Philippines, needs to go through the ICAB (whether or not you are related to the child).....do not go the domestic court system in the Philippines....but the Inter-Country Adoption Board--THE ICAB....or else the Embassy in the Philippines WILL NOT grant a visa for the child to leave the Philippines....you may have been able to "adopt" a child from the domestic court system, but you will not be able to LEAVE WITH THE CHILD back to your country where you reside....

The ICAB will instruct what is legal and what is necessary and they work with the DSWD to prepare a child for adoption, deeming the child legally free, an orphan, who is legally free to be adopted outside of the Philippines.

Blessings to all,

Melody